Official OnePocket.org Rules Poll

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

I would like for us to insert a 'Time Out Rule' in this section. I have researched WPA's time out rule, and nothing in there would pertains to OP. Their rule also allows a player to take a time out when it is not their inning. I hate that, I feel it is a discourtesy to the player at the table, and inappropriate.
3. Continuing play

3.1 Continuing play: A player’s inning continues only as long they pocket a ball or balls in their own pocket on a legal stroke, with no foul occurring. It is not a foul to pocket a ball in a neutral pocket or in the opponent’s pocket, but doing so does not entitle the shooter to continue their inning, unless on the same stroke they legally pocket a ball into their own pocket. Any balls pocketed either accidentally or intentionally into the opponent’s pocket are counted for the opponent, unless on the same stroke, the cue ball is pocketed or jumped off the table. Reference rule 5.1.

3.2 Time out: During the match each player will be allowed 1 time out of five minutes, for every two hours of play. A player can only take a time out when it is their inning. Both players may leave the playing area during the time out. Leaving the playing area without taking a legal time out is a foul.

3.3 End of the game: In the event that a player pockets both their own game-winning ball, and their opponent’s game-winning ball, both on the same legal stroke, then the shooting player wins. There are no ‘ties’, and it does not matter which ball drops first, as long as they both drop as a result of the same stroke.

What do you guys think of the Time Out. It is of course for tournament play.

 

[NH Steve]

6.1 Cue ball fouls only: When a referee is not presiding over the match to call all ball fouls then disturbing a ball is governed by standard "Cue ball fouls only" rules. For clarification, it is always a foul to disturb the cue ball but not a foul to disturb a single object ball as long as there is no effect upon the shot. Any time one or two balls are disturbed, the shooter and opponent must be notified, and the opponent given the option to restore the position or leave the balls as they lie before play resumes. It is a foul for the shooter to restore a disturbed ball without prior permission from the opponent. If two or more balls are disturbed then it is always a foul, whether there is an effect on the shot or not. If multiple (3 or more) balls are accidentally disturbed, they are considered unrestorable and in addition to the standard foul penalty, the opponent has option of ball in hand behind the line.

As quoted above is the way it is in the opening post, out of the rules committee. Based on comments in this thread, below is a proposed slight rewrite:

6.1 Cue ball fouls only: When a referee is not presiding over the match to call all ball fouls, then disturbing a ball is governed by standard "Cue ball fouls only" rules. For clarification, it is always a foul to disturb the cue ball but not a foul to disturb a single object ball as long as there is no effect upon the shot. Any time any balls are disturbed, the shooter and opponent must be notified, and the opponent is always given the option to restore the position or leave the balls as they lie before play resumes. If two or more balls are disturbed then it is always a foul, whether there is an effect on the shot or not. If multiple (3 or more) balls are disturbed it is considered a serious foul, and in addition to the standard foul penalty, the opponent has option of ball in hand behind the line.​

What do you all think of this rewrite? The foul for moving a ball back without permission is gone. Any balls can be restored at the option of the opponent, including multiple balls with no limit. Disturbing 3 balls or more is considered a serious foul and the option of BIH for the opponent.

 

[lll]

Why did you delete the foul for the shooter restoring a ball without permission?

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

Steve, this is your re-write, and I like it very much! I might add it is very cleanly written, my hat is off to you! Just a purely excellent rule writing!
I find no fault with BIH!
Suggestion; by adding the note: it now uncomplicates the main text and highlights the serious fouls that could occur. Which is very helpful for members to spot.
Hopefully this all works for members, and you can move on, for it has been quite an extended effort on this rule.

6.1 Cue ball fouls only: When a referee is not presiding over the match to call all ball fouls, then disturbing a ball is governed by standard "Cue ball fouls only" rules. For clarification, it is always a foul to disturb the cue ball but not a foul to disturb a single object ball as long as there is no effect upon the shot. Any time any balls are disturbed, the shooter and opponent must be notified, and the opponent is always given the option to restore the position or leave the balls as they lie before play resumes. If two or more balls are disturbed then it is always a foul, whether there is an effect on the shot or not. If multiple (3 or more) balls are disturbed it is considered a serious foul, and in addition to the standard foul penalty, the opponent has option of ball in hand behind the line.

Note: It is a standard foul for the shooter to restore a disturbed ball without prior permission from the opponent. It is loss of game; for the seated opponent to disturb balls in play, and for a player to majorly disturb the stack.

 

[NH Steve]

Why did you delete the foul for the shooter restoring a ball without permission?

It was rightly pointed out that the opponent can still just ask it to go back or not. The issue isn’t so much restoring without asking, to me it would be if the shooter restored AND SHOT without asking. That makes sense to be a foul. In our 2004 rules I do not believe we have it as a foul to restore without asking btw, so it would be a new addition to our rules anyway, not a subtraction

 

[lll]

It was rightly pointed out that the opponent can still just ask it to go back or not. The issue isn’t so much restoring without asking, to me it would be if the shooter restored AND SHOT without asking. That makes sense to be a foul. In our 2004 rules I do not believe we have it as a foul to restore without asking btw, so it would be a new addition to our rules anyway, not a subtraction

Thanks for the reply Steve

 

[gulfportdoc]

... What do you all think of this rewrite? The foul for moving a ball back without permission is gone. Any balls can be restored at the option of the opponent, including multiple balls with no limit. Disturbing 3 balls or more is considered a serious foul and the option of BIH for the opponent.

I'm equivocal about the new BIH, preferring a "serious foul" penalty distinction. But I can live with it.

In the opening sentence: "When a referee is not presiding over the match to call all ball fouls,", the underlined words are not really necessary, and might tend to invite confusion or dissension.

 

[joey20]

Just curious about the rule 2.4 Ball in hand behind the line: Ball in hand in One Pocket is always behind the line, not anywhere on the table. When placing the cue ball, the whole cue ball must be placed above the head string line, and to play directly into an object ball, the whole object ball must be below the head string line.

The game of one pocket begins when a player has racked the balls and is standing at the head of the table. The shooter is in the same position when he receives ball in hand, behind the line. The head string is in front of him as is the foot string. Maybe I am being obtuse but I want to ask if this wording bold-faced above is correct or should it read "below the head string or behind the head string"?

 

[NH Steve]

Just curious about the rule 2.4 Ball in hand behind the line: Ball in hand in One Pocket is always behind the line, not anywhere on the table. When placing the cue ball, the whole cue ball must be placed above the head string line, and to play directly into an object ball, the whole object ball must be below the head string line.

The game of one pocket begins when a player has racked the balls and is standing at the head of the table. The shooter is in the same position when he receives ball in hand, behind the line. The head string is in front of him as is the foot string. Maybe I am being obtuse but I want to ask if this wording bold-faced above is correct or should it read "below the head string or behind the head string"?

The head of the table where the kitchen is, is always the top of the table, and the foot where the balls are racked is always the bottom, so it would be conflicting to say below for sure.

 

[NH Steve]

In the opening sentence: "When a referee is not presiding over the match to call all ball fouls,", the underlined words are not really necessary, and might tend to invite confusion or dissension.

I can see that. But I believe that phrase is in there to say that if a referee is presiding, then the match is played all ball fouls.

 

[vapros]

if a referee is presiding, then the match is played all ball fouls.

Steve, you might want to rethink this comment.

 

[NH Steve]

Steve, you might want to rethink this comment.

If I do I might get even more confused lol

 

[vapros]

What I meant is if there are not enough referees to go around, you would find different rules for different matches in the tournament. All ball fouls at this table, cue fouls only at that one.

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

6.1 Cue ball fouls only: When a referee is not presiding over the match to call all ball fouls, then disturbing a ball is governed by standard "Cue ball fouls only" rules.
It could wrote like this:
6.1 Cue ball fouls only: When the match is not played by 'all ball fouls', then disturbing a ball is governed by standard "Cue ball fouls only" rules.

This subtle lets it be known that the game can be played by 'all ball fouls', which is important! And leaves out the assumption that when a referee is prestent then it has to be played by 'all ball fouls'.

Steve, I believe is going to change this sentence.
Whitey

 

[darmoose]

I am unsure if our approach to rules for OP is correct, so to speak.

I am thinking rules should be for the game as it is played every day and leave tournaments and TD's to adjust whatever rules they wish at their tournaments for their own reasons. Do other games rules suggest alternate ways to play and do they put forth rules for everyday play and different rules for tournaments, rules for when there's a referee and when there is not? Fouls for tournaments separate from fouls for every day play?

Are TD's expected to follow our rules for tournaments? Are we over reaching, trying to be all things to everybody?

 

[vapros]

In the interest of fairness and continuity, I think the tournament rule should be 'cue ball falls only' unless there is a referee guaranteed for all matches. This isn't the Olympics. Got a referee? Fine, he can preside over the rest of the calls.

 

[beatle]

all that is covered in the standard rules of 14.1 is it a complete rule book of pool or a rule book that explains rules that are different in one pocket and not standard in 14.1 or how played universally.

how about title of book, one pocket rules and situations that are different than 14.1.

 

[vapros]

Are TD's expected to follow our rules for tournaments? Are we over reaching, trying to be all things to everybody?

Great! This body should write rules for one-pocket play. Tournament directors are out of our reach, anyway - We are wasting our time trying to tell them what to do. It's not our business. Steve mentioned recently that he has already prepared an abridged version of the rules we are struggling with. That makes sense to me.

 

[NH Steve]

Ok I get it — even if referees are involved it might well still be played cue ball fouls only.

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

I am unsure if our approach to rules for OP is correct, so to speak.

I am thinking rules should be for the game as it is played every day and leave tournaments and TD's to adjust whatever rules they wish at their tournaments for their own reasons. Do other games rules suggest alternate ways to play and do they put forth rules for everyday play and different rules for tournaments, rules for when there's a referee and when there is not? Fouls for tournaments separate from fouls for every day play?

Are TD's expected to follow our rules for tournaments? Are we over reaching, trying to be all things to everybody?

It was not until Steve realized that he could not possibly write rules for everyone, hustlers, bangers, and tournament players, plus try to stay within the confines of WPA rules, that the rules finally progressed.

Yes, if this was just a game rule writing then yes, it would be very basic, but it is not, and it has never been that way. We have found areas of the WPA that are inadequate, and therefore there have been some clarifications.
For instance in 6.1 Cue Ball Foul Only: Do you want to be able to restore balls or not, Steve is letting you restore them. WPA only allows a single ball (1) ball to be restored, and that is if there is no effect upon the shot.

Do you want to play by WPA frozen ob to a rail and all you have to do is make the ob dribble it in and out of the rail making and losing contacts and that is a legal shot. Steve has corrected that.

Do you want to play OP where your opponent is fiddling with your scored balls and the your coins for owed balls, Steve has shored this up.

Do you want to play BIH-BTL and you shoot and the opponent calls a foul, Steve shored that up, now have the historical rule that warns the shooter that a ball is not playable.

Would it be nice to know who actually spots the ball, Steve shored that up.

I am trying to shore up when a player can take a time out, to be on your inning, otherwise it is rude.

Your choice; look at what you think are the negatives or embrace the good things that have transpired through this endeavor.
Whitey