Four Types of 1P Shots

Cowboy Dennis

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I said that if I remembered on Monday, that I would post my own (whacky) theory on one aspect of the game. Well I remembered and you're all in trouble now. Let's just hope this thread does not devolve into name calling and insults being hurled. I'll start by saying that the break is the fifth type of shot. That way no one has to point it out to me. As I see it, the four types of one-pocket shots are:

1. Offensive. These are running balls in your pocket with no regard to playing safe if you should miss. These are shots that you fully expect to make and should make, no matter the game or opponent.

2. Defensive. These are purely defense. You are in trouble and must get out of it. There are no other opportunities except to prolong the game another inning. Or you may not be in trouble but there's still nothing to do that can help you at all. 100% defense.

3. Offensive-Defensive. These are shots that you are sending toward your pocket, but they are difficult shots, so you are playing the cueball safe if you should miss because the odds of missing are high. These are primarily offensive and secondarily defensive shots.

4. Defensive-Offensive. The main purpose of these shots is to play safe. But you also have an opportunity to send something towards your pocket in the process. Again, primarily defensive and secondarily offensive. If something drops in your pocket on this type of shot it's a bonus but not entirely unexpected.

Now for my whacky theory that forces me to shoot the right shot(for me), no matter the game, opponent, bet, winning-losing status, or anything else. And before I tell it, I'll say one more thing. It takes a high bet to make me play my best. I don't shoot at white flags for cheap but I've always played better for more money. That's a fault of mine, but one that I'm happy to have as opposed to the opposite fault.

My theory is this: If you played 1000 games with an opponent who is your equal in every way, you will win 500 games and lose 500 games. In those 1000 games you will get, ON AVERAGE PER GAME, so many of each type of the four shots that I mentioned . If you have an offensive shot but pass on it for any reason, that's one less offensive shot, on average, that you will have for that game.

If you shoot at your hole when the correct shot is to play defense, that is one less defensive shot that you will have for that game.

The same is true for the other two types of shots. And you may think that you can pass up a shot, of any type, and make up for it later, but in the long run, you cannot do that. That's why you have an average of each type of shot.

Think of it like this: If you pass up one offensive shot per game that you probably should shoot given your talent level, that is 1000 less shots at your pocket for the session. And if your opponent is shooting at the ones he should, that's a 2000 shot swing for the session.

Thinking like this helps force you to shoot the correct shot for the situation that you are in. At least it helps me. But I'm kind of goofy anyway.

Bottom line is this, decide which type of shot you are faced with and then shoot it. It's tough being honest with yourself. It's tough ducking when you want to fire at your hole. And it's tough to fire at your hole when you want to duck. We've all been there. And every now and then you might get away with it. But ON AVERAGE, you will not.

So ends the lesson on my whacky theories. Unless I remember something else and do a little editing.

P.S. It's your turn Rod.
 
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lll

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i do not think this so whacky. it helps you (us) to understand the position we are in and make the correct shot selection. i hate to bring up 9 ball here but in that game you have to decide if i miss my shape do i want to be alittle long or a little short to be on the "right" ( correct) side of the ball for shape on the next one. i think its good strategy
 

vapros

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Wowee!!!

Wowee!!!

Cowboy, you just might be a direct descendant of the famous Pandora. What a concept you have dropped on us with this approach to one-pocket. I'm not going to say too much until I see some of the responses from the old hands at the game, and I expect there will be some. This is a lot to try to digest.

However, I will pull a worm out of this can, just to get something started - hopefully peacefully, but that's a long shot. You noted that if I shoot at my pocket when I should have made a defensive shot, that means that I will lose one of my defensive shots, theoretically. Is that result, in itself, good or bad? Is that what I should worry about when I make the decision? It seems to me that going for my pocket when I should not is just a mistake that might be pretty serious, but forfeiting a defensive shot is not my penalty. Or are we talking about the same evil, just under different names?

Thanks for sticking your neck out for those of us on this forum. Maybe some good will result. But for a day or two, you might want to leave the saddle on your horse. You might want him.
 

sappo

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1000m Sessions

1000m Sessions

I appreciate what you are saying BUT if you are trying to play your best one pocket isnt what you are saying the same as " to always select and execute the best shot based on the score, the position of the balls on the table, your opponent's skills, your skills and all the other factors that make up the proper shot selection? Sappo
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Pandoras Box, Knew it Well

Pandoras Box, Knew it Well

vapros said:
Cowboy, you just might be a direct descendant of the famous Pandora. What a concept you have dropped on us with this approach to one-pocket. I'm not going to say too much until I see some of the responses from the old hands at the game, and I expect there will be some. This is a lot to try to digest.

However, I will pull a worm out of this can, just to get something started - hopefully peacefully, but that's a long shot. You noted that if I shoot at my pocket when I should have made a defensive shot, that means that I will lose one of my defensive shots, theoretically. Is that result, in itself, good or bad? Is that what I should worry about when I make the decision? It seems to me that going for my pocket when I should not is just a mistake that might be pretty serious, but forfeiting a defensive shot is not my penalty. Or are we talking about the same evil, just under different names?

Thanks for sticking your neck out for those of us on this forum. Maybe some good will result. But for a day or two, you might want to leave the saddle on your horse. You might want him.

Vapros,

Note that I stated "and every now and then you might get away with it. But ON AVERAGE you will not". We are talking about playing 1000 games with an equal opponent. Of course, equal also means that he may make the same mistakes that you do. You cannot take one shot out of 1000 games and call it good or bad. But if you have a tendency to shoot at your hole when you should play safe, you will not win 500 games. But if you only do it one time and it works, then you got away with it. As long as you know that you shot the wrong shot. Good point though.

And I'll not need to leave my horse saddled. She (Pandora) would not like that a bit. When I'm offering opinions on something that I've been thinking about for 25 years, I'm not overly concerned with what anyone thinks about it. But there are so many players on this site that I like and respect, that I would take alternate theories under consideration.

Dennis
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Cowboy Dennis said:
Vapros,

Note that I stated "and every now and then you might get away with it. But ON AVERAGE you will not". We are talking about playing 1000 games with an equal opponent. Of course, equal also means that he may make the same mistakes that you do. You cannot take one shot out of 1000 games and call it good or bad. But if you have a tendency to shoot at your hole when you should play safe, you will not win 500 games. But if you only do it one time and it works, then you got away with it. As long as you know that you shot the wrong shot. Good point though.

And I'll not need to leave my horse saddled. She (Pandora) would not like that a bit. When I'm offering opinions on something that I've been thinking about for 25 years, I'm not overly concerned with what anyone thinks about it. But there are so many players on this site that I like and respect, that I would take alternate theories under consideration.

Dennis
Bach to reality. ITs great to play without control. But that will not help your game or to improve. YOU HAVE TO LEAR THE CORRECT SHOT. ANd every shot you shoot has to be the correct shot. And the reason you do that is becuse if you ahoty the correct shot. It will force your opponent to make a mistake. This is not a crap game or a LUCK GAME. ITS real easy. If you play the whole game mistake free you will win. Mitakes make you lose. AND again. Shooting 7 to 5 shots and your opponent is shooting 4 to 5 shots you cannot win. So dot look for gimmicks and angles. BUt look to learn to shoot the correct shots. And keep inproving on shooting beter and better shots. Anyone cand shoot up in the air with no control. And doing that is missleading. And does not work. You have to no what you are doing. You have to no when to shoot and when not to shoot. And always play the percentages. THat also dictates what we should shoot. If you dont shoot the wright shot you cannot win. Experamenting in a game does not work. My advice is learn to play correctly or hang it up.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
Bach to reality. ITs great to play without control. But that will not help your game or to improve. YOU HAVE TO LEAR THE CORRECT SHOT. ANd every shot you shoot has to be the correct shot. And the reason you do that is becuse if you ahoty the correct shot. It will force your opponent to make a mistake. This is not a crap game or a LUCK GAME. ITS real easy. If you play the whole game mistake free you will win. Mitakes make you lose. AND again. Shooting 7 to 5 shots and your opponent is shooting 4 to 5 shots you cannot win. So dot look for gimmicks and angles. BUt look to learn to shoot the correct shots. And keep inproving on shooting beter and better shots. Anyone cand shoot up in the air with no control. And doing that is missleading. And does not work. You have to no what you are doing. You have to no when to shoot and when not to shoot. And always play the percentages. THat also dictates what we should shoot. If you dont shoot the wright shot you cannot win. Experamenting in a game does not work. My advice is learn to play correctly or hang it up.
And thier is only one shot to shoot. And that is the correct shot.
 

senor

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Nice post Dennis. I'm not feeling too analytical right now, but from an economic perspective, I would liken your thought process to applying an opportunity cost to each of your turns at the table. If the 'right' shot is not chosen you will forever lose that opportunity to shoot the 'right' shot in that situation. That's a good way to keep pressure on yourself no matter what the bet, but you're right, a little higher bet and some stiff competition does help.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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senor said:
but If the 'right' shot is not chosen you will forever lose that opportunity to shoot the 'right' shot in that situation. QUOTE]


senor,

I wish I had thought to write that in my post. It's an excellent point, I just do not always express myself as well. Thanks.

Dennis
 
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Artie Bodendorfer

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Cowboy Dennis said:
senor said:
but If the 'right' shot is not chosen you will forever lose that opportunity to shoot the 'right' shot in that situation. QUOTE]


senor,

I wish I had thought to write that in my post. It's an excellent point, I just do not always express myself as well. Thanks.

Dennis
THere are reasons Why its the correct shot.And if you dont learn it you will never know the answer. You wil;l always stay in the dark. And you have to learn why its the correct choice. If you dont have the answer then its usualy the wrong shot. Thier are 20 shoices but only one is the best and the correct shot. You have to no the answer WHY.
 

Fatboy

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
YOU HAVE TO LEARN THE CORRECT SHOT. ANd every shot you shoot has to be the correct shot. . It will force your opponent to make a mistake.



This is what seperates the men from the boys, is forcing your opponent into making a mistake, how you get there dosent really matter as long as you get there first, it can be better than beating him to the shot-unless the shot is so big it is 8-n-out. But forcing your opponent to make mistakes is triple strong in the long run, that gets them weak and thats more important than anything except executing when you have too. those 2 things and no mistakes you cant lose. Easier said than done, but if you cant think it you cant EVER do it.

for the record, i'm still a boy with alot to learn, however I seen the men play and this is my observation above.
 

androd

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cowboydennis said:
Now for my whacky theory that forces me to shoot the right shot(for me), no matter the game, opponent, bet, winning-losing status, or anything else. And before I tell it, I'll say one more thing. It takes a high bet to make me play my best. I don't shoot at white flags for cheap but I've always played better for more money. That's a fault of mine, but one that I'm happy to have as opposed to the opposite fault.



Thinking like this helps force you to shoot the correct shot for the situation that you are in. At least it helps me. But I'm kind of goofy anyway.

It's tough being honest with yourself. It's tough ducking when you want to fire at your hole. And it's tough to fire at your hole when you want to duck. We've all been there. And every now and then you might get away with it. But ON AVERAGE, you will not.


P.S. It's your turn Rod.

DENNIS, I agree with your thoughtful post. Myself I don't have the discipline to turn down offensive shots unless gambling a little higher. My money is often a gift playing cheap. The one outstanding point to me was when you said the "right shot for me". There's much talk about the correct shot, since I'm not a perfect pool player, I must play to my strengths and shoot the shot that I handle the best in every situation. The correct shot for me may not be the same as the correct shot for someone who plays better, or worse. Most times we all select the same shot, but sometimes if I know I don't handle it well, I'll do something else, so I very much agree with what you said.
Rod. <----- still a gofer, after all these years.
PS; not drunk enough for my theories, that everyone disagrees with.
 
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SJDinPHX

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SJDinPHX said:
DENNIS, I agree with your thoughtful post. Myself I don't have the discipline to turn down offensive shots unless gambling a little higher. My money is often a gift playing cheap. The one outstanding point to me was when you said the "right shot for me". There's much talk about the correct shot, since I'm not a perfect pool player, I must play to my strengths and shoot the shot that I handle the best in every situation. The correct shot for me may not be the same as the correct shot for someone who plays better, or worse. Most times we all select the same shot, but sometimes if I know I don't handle it well, I'll do something else, so I very much agree with what you said.
Rod. <----- still a gofer, after all these years.
PS; not drunk enough for my theories, that everyone disagrees with.

Rod and Dennis,

Not to start a 'mutual admiration society', but I was about to post a similar thread regarding my total agreement with you and Dennis' take on "the right shot"

I'm sure, that even the greatest 1P player in the world, (who will ALWAYS shoot the correct shot) has shots he doesn't like, and shots he really hits well.
And that will effect his shot selection. Getting him to admit it, is another story entirely.

I especially concur with Rodney's take on "playing cheap". I have pissed away more money to guys, who play for $5 like they were playing for their HEAD.
I have always lacked that discipline, and more than once I have taken the heat, and locked myself up.

The only thing worse than playing a millionaire for $5, is to play him for $50 or a $100. The $$ amount means nothing to them, whereas it may mean whether you eat or not.

My theory, toothpick...lumber yard. Give 'em the nuts, and outrun it, but make 'em bet something from the git-go.
Even my best friends knew I was an easy mark at $5-$10 pool

Thank God I discovered that flaw early on, and matched up the best I could, from the git-go. But I rarely let ANYONE play cheap.

Dick <---wishes he could have played for $5....I would be one of them there millionaires by now.

Ps It would be interesting to hear Artie's take on this subject. (I think) [/QUOTE]
 
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jrhendy

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SJDinPHX said:
Rod,

Not to start a 'mutual admiration society', but I was about to post a similar thread regarding my agreement with you and Dennis' take on "the right shot"

I'm sure even the greatest 1P player in the world, (who will ALWAYS shoot the correct shot) has shots he doesn't like, and shots he really hits well.
And that will effect his shot selection. Getting him to admit it, is another story entirely.

I especially concur with your take on "playing cheap". I have pissed away more money to wealthy guys, who play for $5 like they were playing for their HEAD. I have always lacked that discipline, and more than once I have taken the heat, and locked myself up.

For anything bet up to $20 a game, I also am a huge sucker. I will always try to play agressive even If I know I am shooting the wrong shot. I will find a way to go for something even if I have to invent something. After I get stuck some I will tighten up some, but I am not trying hard enough to win playing cheap and can't help it.

When I play for $30 and up a game, I pay attention. I have been playing one pocket for almost 50 years and while I'm not a world beater, I can play and know most of the shots. Execution is the problem anymore, but there are days when it all comes together and this keeps me going to the post.

As far as shooting the right shot all the time, this sounds good on paper, but unless I am making a significant bet my shot selection depends on the situation I am in. If I am stuck good or behind in a set, I may get very agressive to try and turn things around. I am not going to blow my cash playing safe. If I know I have a good game or am far ahead, I may shoot the wrong shot on purpose. I am not a perfectionist and just trying to get the $$, not play perfect one pocket. I do believe in the KISS theory and it works ok for me most of the time.

Some days every bank looks a little off angle and the shots come up a little different than you feel comfortable with. And then, some days every shot is a hanger, all the banks lay perfect and there are dead combo's in the stack.

You have to make a lot of adjustments depending on the situation to play good one pocket. It is the best game in pool. JMHO
 

Cowboy Dennis

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SJDinPHX said:
Thank God I discovered that flaw early on, and matched up the best I could, but would not let ANYONE play cheap.



Thank God I discovered that flaw early on, and matched up the best I could, from the git-go. But I rarely let ANYONE play cheap.

)


Dick,

Do you see now what happens when you mention the greatest 1P player in the world and actually wonder aloud what his opinion would be. It just twists your brain into a pretzel. Then you start quoting your own posts. Then you do this. R&D&S need to be on alert.

D.
 

SJDinPHX

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Cowboy Dennis said:
Dick,

Do you see now what happens when you mention the greatest 1P player in the world and actually wonder aloud what his opinion would be. It just twists your brain into a pretzel. Then you start quoting your own posts. Then you do this. R&D&S need to be on alert.

D.

Boy, you don't miss anything, do you ? I have just now learned the difference between "copy and paste" and "cut and paste".
Be careful or I'll hi-jack another of your threads. :eek:

Dick, <----thinks Dennis is a geek who should stick to WEIn Pocket...(JK)
 
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Cowboy Dennis

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SJDinPHX said:
Boy, you don't miss anything, do you ? I have just now learned the difference between "copy and paste" and "cut and paste".
Be careful or I'll hi-jack another of your threads. :eek:

Dick, <----thinks Dennis is a dork who should stick to WEIn Pocket...(JK)


Hey, no fair editing after I've posted on another thread.

Dorky Dennis , now Geeky Dennis. Thanks Ghost, I've learned how to re-edit his posts to show the true original post. Just like you do.
 
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SactownTom

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It doesn't come up that often, but everyone has that table layout that your opponent has left you STUCK. There isn't anyway you are going to get out of the trap and it becomes a 'disparate' situation. You can take a foul but that is just delaying the inevitable. You can't play to any place on the table that will give you a feeling that your opponent will have to make a High percentage shot to get out. IT just adds up to 'disparation'.

Billy Incardone says this is the time you just BLAST away.. the worst you could do is SELL OUT... the best is to leave the table completely different and possibly be better off.

This Blast shot has save my butt quite a few times. I guess I was lucky then.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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SactownTom said:
It doesn't come up that often, but everyone has that table layout that your opponent has left you STUCK. There isn't anyway you are going to get out of the trap and it becomes a 'disparate' situation. You can take a foul but that is just delaying the inevitable. You can't play to any place on the table that will give you a feeling that your opponent will have to make a High percentage shot to get out. IT just adds up to 'disparation'.

Billy Incardone says this is the time you just BLAST away.. the worst you could do is SELL OUT... the best is to leave the table completely different and possibly be better off.

This Blast shot has save my butt quite a few times. I guess I was lucky then.


You would not think this would work, but when you are desperate and have nothing else to do, remember this advice. I've seen Cornbread do this on the snooker table on more than one occasion. It's easier there because you're leaving the cueball longer, but the same principle applies. Hit'em hard and hope. When it works, it can really mess up the thought process of your opponent.
 
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