Accidentally moving balls

[opposedtwin]

I did a search first but didn't find a definite answer to my question. I apologize if it has been beaten to death previously. Question: Shooter executes legal safety shot but accidentally moves another ball approx one inch with cue. Cue ball travels two rails coming to rest behind moved ball. Shooter informs opponent what happened and asked if he wants ball moved to where it was or leave it. Opponent said a foul was committed because cue ball traveled within the vicinity of where moved ball was. He agreed that cue ball would not have hit the moved ball but that it was still a foul. Ruling/opinions?

 

[beatle]

local rules apply here.

but any place i have gambled and that is a lot of them. you gave the opponent the option of placing the balls where they should be. no foul.

 

[LSJohn]

I did a search first but didn't find a definite answer to my question. I apologize if it has been beaten to death previously. Question: Shooter executes legal safety shot but accidentally moves another ball approx one inch with cue. Cue ball travels two rails coming to rest behind moved ball. Shooter informs opponent what happened and asked if he wants ball moved to where it was or leave it. Opponent said a foul was committed because cue ball traveled within the vicinity of where moved ball was. He agreed that cue ball would not have hit the moved ball but that it was still a foul. Ruling/opinions?

In competitions playing cue ball fouls only, in situations similar to what you describe, I have only seen a foul called if the touched ball would have been contacted by another moving ball. Changing its relationship to other balls is not a foul because it can be replaced (in theory) exactly where it was without its inadvertent movement changing anything.

 

[jtompilot]

I did a search first but didn't find a definite answer to my question. I apologize if it has been beaten to death previously. Question: Shooter executes legal safety shot but accidentally moves another ball approx one inch with cue. Cue ball travels two rails coming to rest behind moved ball. Shooter informs opponent what happened and asked if he wants ball moved to where it was or leave it. Opponent said a foul was committed because cue ball traveled within the vicinity of where moved ball was. He agreed that cue ball would not have hit the moved ball but that it was still a foul. Ruling/opinions?

If agreed balls would not have touched I'd say no foul.

 

[jtompilot]

On a side question, what about slipping while stretched out and cue stick moves 7 or 8 balls and no way to replace all the moved balls? Loss of game, play as they lay with a foul, or re-rack?

 

[opposedtwin]

It is my understanding that if three or more balls are moved it is a foul. Don't know if it is actually a rule.

 

[jtompilot]

It is my understanding that if three or more balls are moved it is a foul. Don't know if it is actually a rule.

We play two moved its a foul

 

[LSJohn]

On a side question, what about slipping while stretched out and cue stick moves 7 or 8 balls and no way to replace all the moved balls? Loss of game, play as they lay with a foul, or re-rack?

I've never seen this discussed or written that I recall, but if I were asked what the fair thing to do was, I'd say one foul, re-rack and opponent breaks (all assuming that it was really inadvertent and not a move to get out of a really bad spot at the cost of one ball.)

If I were getting my usual 12-4, I'd be really suspicious. 13-4, and now I get the first chance to sell out... gee thanks.

 

[Billy Jackets]

It always amazes me when balls get moved by accident, the person who fumbled into them, usually is in a much better position when it is over with, about 95% of the time.

 

[Disco Dave]

Here in Houston, two or more balls moved is a foul. one ball moved is not normally a foul unless it affects the outcome of a shot. Examples of affecting the outcome (resulting in a foul) can be:

1. Moving through the path of the cue ball (regardless of whether or not contact actually occurred). This does not necessarily affect the outcome but is a foul anyway.
2. Causing the cue ball (or other balls) make contact if it wouldn't have otherwise.
3. Causing the cue ball (or other balls) to avoid contact when they otherwise would have.
4. Causing the incoming shooter to be hooked when he otherwise wouldn't have been.

 

[NH Steve]

Here in Houston, two or more balls moved is a foul. one ball moved is not normally a foul unless it affects the outcome of a shot. Examples of affecting the outcome (resulting in a foul) can be:

1. Moving through the path of the cue ball (regardless of whether or not contact actually occurred). This does not necessarily affect the outcome but is a foul anyway.
2. Causing the cue ball (or other balls) make contact if it wouldn't have otherwise.
3. Causing the cue ball (or other balls) to avoid contact when they otherwise would have.
4. Causing the incoming shooter to be hooked when he otherwise wouldn't have been.

Yes, I think what you have written here is a reasonable paraphrase of the usual general rules as they stand now for "cue ball fouls only". Our One Pocket rules defer to the general rules for issues like this.

I have been suggesting we change to a little closer to "all ball fouls" by adopting a "one touch warning, all balls shooting" rule. Meaning you can accidentally touch a ball or balls when you are setting up for your shot once, as long as you stop and your opponent can replace them to their satisfaction. At that point you are warned and if you touch at a ball at all (even if you change your mind and aim for a different shot), it is a foul. Also, anytime you move a ball during the act of shooting it is always a foul. The warning gives a little leeway and also allows time to get a ref or neutral party to watch the actual shot since obviously balls are close for the potential of fouling. It would be a foul if you continued to shoot after moving a ball despite that being called by your opponent. You have to be able to stop prior to your shot to get saved by being a warning only -- otherwise it is a foul.

 

[LSJohn]

Yes, I think what you have written here is a reasonable paraphrase of the usual general rules as they stand now for "cue ball fouls only". Our One Pocket rules defer to the general rules for issues like this.

I have been suggesting we change to a little closer to "all ball fouls" by adopting a "one touch warning, all balls shooting" rule. Meaning you can accidentally touch a ball or balls when you are setting up for your shot once, as long as you stop and your opponent can replace them to their satisfaction. At that point you are warned and if you touch at a ball at all (even if you change your mind and aim for a different shot), it is a foul. Also, anytime you move a ball during the act of shooting it is always a foul. The warning gives a little leeway and also allows time to get a ref or neutral party to watch the actual shot since obviously balls are close for the potential of fouling. It would be a foul if you continued to shoot after moving a ball despite that being called by your opponent. You have to be able to stop prior to your shot to get saved by being a warning only -- otherwise it is a foul.

"4. Causing the incoming shooter to be hooked when he otherwise wouldn't have been"

...can't be right. You aren't hooked if you have the option to move it back. Wait... don't you guys move the ball back if op chooses?

 

[Jeff sparks]

None apply to the over 70 group! You get to scramble em once a game whether it's a muscle spasm or a move!!! Just live longer and the rules get relaxed.

 

[One pocket Smitty]

I saw a game where the men were playing 50 a game and the head of the bridge came off as the guy shot and moved a lot of balls and it was loss of game. Also have seen where if you moved a ball after it was inadvertently moved without asking your opponent what he wanted to do move it back or leave it, it was a foul because you did not ask him first.---Smitty

 

[opposedtwin]

...moving balls

...moving balls

Thanks for your responses to my question.

 

[lll]

this from the dcc rules (bolded parts are from me for emphasis)

Cue Ball Fouls Only: Accidentally touching or disturbing a single object ball is not a foul unless the disturbed ball has an effect on the outcome of the shot. See a referee for advice if you think this has happened. Otherwise, the opponent has the option to restore the disturbed ball or leave it in position. If the offending player attempts to restore the disturbed ball without giving their opponent the restoration option, it is a foul.



Accidentally touching or disturbing 2 or more object balls is a foul, and there is no restoration option for the disturbed balls.

 

[beatle]

those rules are great for a tournament with a ref to make a decision.

but in real life just letting your opponent put them back as he sees fit eliminates all arguments.

otherwise you call a scratch or loss of game he just tells you screw you i am not paying and i quit. now what do you do. besides maybe losing a good payday forever because of it.

as long as the rules work the same for both of you they are fair. it could be you doing it next time

when i play i usually state no fouls on double hits on the cue ball as long as you raise the butt of your cue. no arguments then. otherwise you go back and forth till he quits over it. and he calls them on you. so just make them legal.
the worst thing you can do gambling with someone is let him find a justification to quit without having to say "you are just too good for me."

 

[LSJohn]

the worst thing you can do gambling with someone is let him find a justification to quit without

I guess that depends on whether you put "pool" in the Revenue or Expense column on your financial statement.

 

[Cobra Kai]

Where I play they shoot you if you move a ball. Spandex gives you the best chances at survival.

 

[Mkbtank]

Accidentally moving balls

Where I play they shoot you if you move a ball. Spandex gives you the best chances at survival.

Nice screen name man. Sweep the leg.