Respotting Foul

Nick B

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Vancouver, Canada
This might have come up before but it came up during our tourney between Bee and myself (FYI a good guy...so this is not a jab at him). Early in the game Bee has a ball near his pocket and I'm struggling to get out of his break. I try getting him stacked up and make a ball in the side while sticking him in the stack. I now have to respot the ball and his cueball is close to the spot but I think it will go on.

My initial spotting is a little low (his ball is above the spot). I look at it and agree and move it up. Now I think it's good and he still thinks it's a low (I now have a quarter inch more room if needed. From here he is in trouble (eclipsed completely by the spotting ball). I look at it and even though I think it's good I try and move the ball a little closer. I do and after sitting there for a two seconds the ball rocks over and touches up against his ball (Most spots have multiple spots). He calls foul. I respond with how can I foul when I'm acting as the referee (my turn is over).

We have a quick chat and decide to ask Steve. He goes over and comes back with no foul. We spot ball under stack and he proceeds to make one or two balls. In the end it didn't matter because I still won that game and match.

What is the correct ruling:
1. In a gambling session?
2. In a tourney environment?

Honestly asking. Not trying to validate my stance.

Question two:
What if you spot the ball and are happy with it's position and your opponent isn't?
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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You did everything right, and if your spotted ball contacted that other ball it is not a foul. Just read our Official OnePocket.org rules. Balls disturbed when spotting is not a foul, and balls are to be spotted either on the spot, or as close to the spot as possible in the nearest available space on the long string, and if necessary frozen to other balls.

Proper player procedure is for the outgoing player to spot the balls for the incoming player, which you did.

If there is a dispute over the way you spotted the ball between the players then call over the director. Whitey
 

androd

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New Braunfels tx.
He calls foul. I respond with how can I foul when I'm acting as the referee (my turn is over).?


Ed Zachery lite !

Question two:
What if you spot the ball and are happy with it's position and your opponent isn't?[/quote]

Take it out to the parking lot. :)
 

lll

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vero beach fl
nick since you didnt touch a ball while spotting it to me no foul
movement after the fact
agree to the relocation of the balls
jmho
icbw
 

darmoose

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Baltimore, MD
This might have come up before but it came up during our tourney between Bee and myself (FYI a good guy...so this is not a jab at him). Early in the game Bee has a ball near his pocket and I'm struggling to get out of his break. I try getting him stacked up and make a ball in the side while sticking him in the stack. I now have to respot the ball and his cueball is close to the spot but I think it will go on.

My initial spotting is a little low (his ball is above the spot). I look at it and agree and move it up. Now I think it's good and he still thinks it's a low (I now have a quarter inch more room if needed. From here he is in trouble (eclipsed completely by the spotting ball). I look at it and even though I think it's good I try and move the ball a little closer. I do and after sitting there for a two seconds the ball rocks over and touches up against his ball (Most spots have multiple spots). He calls foul. I respond with how can I foul when I'm acting as the referee (my turn is over).

We have a quick chat and decide to ask Steve. He goes over and comes back with no foul. We spot ball under stack and he proceeds to make one or two balls. In the end it didn't matter because I still won that game and match.

What is the correct ruling:
1. In a gambling session?
2. In a tourney environment?

Honestly asking. Not trying to validate my stance.

Question two:
What if you spot the ball and are happy with it's position and your opponent isn't?


"That is as close as I think I can get the ball to the spot without fouling" "If you think you can get it closer, go right ahead and do it ":)
 

NH Steve

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New Hampshire
As someone mentioned below, it is pretty clearly stated in the onepocket.org rules that it is not a foul to bump the cue ball when you are spotting a ball:

6.7 It shall not be a foul to accidentally touch the cue ball while removing an object ball from an adjacent pocket, or when spotting a ball where the cue ball interferes. It shall be a foul for the incoming shooter to accidentally touch an object ball with the cue ball while placing it in a ball in hand situation.
 

vapros

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baton rouge, la
I saw this recently, but neither player caught it. In addressing a shot, a player moved an object ball an inch or so with his bridge hand and then replaced it before shooting - usually allowed locally even without asking the opponent. Nothing was said, but during the shot the cue ball went two rails and bumped the same ball. No foul, I suppose. ?
 

beatle

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always revert back to the idiom of, no harm no foul, if there is a problem.

you win by pocketing 8 balls not by calling picky-uni fouls on your opponent.
 

catkins

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boulder creek ca
I would say the only time it is a foul to spot a ball is when you drop it in the center of the stack and move a lot balls
 

Nick B

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Vancouver, Canada
On the other hand I did foul while playing Tom Wirth and he spotted it correctly. I has jacked up over a ball and wanted to draw back for shape on the next ball. Nipped the ball that was tree topping me with my cue and the cue ball did what I told it to and came back and hit it. I was a little brain dead at the time and couldn't remember the rule. That was while shooting and definitely a foul. Spotted my balls and sat down. It's funny because if I wasn't playing I would undoubtedly know the right call. I was so fixated on running a bunch that I went blank and had to ask Jay H who was commenting on the call.

Back to the original question I believe when acting as the ref you can't foul.
 

Scrzbill

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Eagles Rest, Wa
I never thought of it as acting as a referee but that is correct or you can do as someone else said, “you spot it”.
I do the second one often if it is close because I have developed a tremor.
 

J.R.

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Chicago, Illinois
I recall when "Bee" called a foul on "Nick B" during a match for inadvertently touching the cue ball with an object ball while spotting it. Shortly afterward, I immediately agreed with NHSteve's ruling (onepocket.org rule 6.7 in essence but not verbatim that it shall not be a foul to accidentally touch the cue ball when spotting a ball where the cue ball interferes) but my basis was based on fairness and the knowledge that whenever a ball is being spotted that the player spotting the object ball is acting as a referee.

Question #1. It has been my experience that in both a gambling session or a tournament match that when spotting an object ball it cannot be frozen to the cue ball should the cue ball be near or on the spot. Furthermore, the outgoing player is encumbered with spotting the object ball when there is not a referee or neutral non-player to spot the object ball. Because the outgoing player is encumbered with spotting the object ball he acts as the referee and is thereby absolved from any and all fouls should he inadvertently touch the cue ball with the spotted ball.

Question #2. It has also been my experience after an object ball is spotted but your opponent believes it has been spotted incorrectly, that I have always allowed my opponent to make the correction with the reservation I would be allowed to also examine the relocation of the spotted object ball. Then, should I object to how my opponent respotted the object ball, a referee or neutral non-player is requested to spot the object ball. The spotting of the object ball by the referee or neutral non-player spotting of the object ball is final.

Additionally, I often make an agreement with my opponent, when gambling, that should an event occur that cannot be resolved by agreement, that the flip of a coin will usually suffice.
 

lll

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vero beach fl
Question #1. It has been my experience that in both a gambling session or a tournament match that when spotting an object ball it cannot be frozen to the cue ball should the cue ball be near or on the spot. Furthermore, the outgoing player is encumbered with spotting the object ball when there is not a referee or neutral non-player to spot the object ball. Because the outgoing player is encumbered with spotting the object ball he acts as the referee and is thereby absolved from any and all fouls should he inadvertently touch the cue ball with the spotted ball.

.
YOU CANNOT FREEZE AN OBJECT BALL TO THE CUE BALL WHEN SPOTTING THE OBJECT BALL
from our rules
......
9. Spotting balls
9.1 Balls are to be spotted on the foot spot, or in a direct line below the foot spot, and tightly frozen to other object balls that fall in or interfere with that line. However if the cue ball interferes, the spotted ball is to be placed on that line close to, but not quite frozen to the cue ball. In the event that the line below the foot spot is full and the bottom rail interferes with a spotted ball then balls are to be spotted on the same line, but above the foot spot.
 

ChicagoFats

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I saw this recently, but neither player caught it. In addressing a shot, a player moved an object ball an inch or so with his bridge hand and then replaced it before shooting - usually allowed locally even without asking the opponent. Nothing was said, but during the shot the cue ball went two rails and bumped the same ball. No foul, I suppose. ?

Not a foul.
 

NH Steve

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New Hampshire
I saw this recently, but neither player caught it. In addressing a shot, a player moved an object ball an inch or so with his bridge hand and then replaced it before shooting - usually allowed locally even without asking the opponent. Nothing was said, but during the shot the cue ball went two rails and bumped the same ball. No foul, I suppose. ?

Technically the opponent is supposed to be notified, but that often doesn't happen like you said, and like someone else said elsewhere in this thread, "no harm, no foul". Also, you said, "before shooting" -- that is key, because if he bumped that ball and shot before restoring the ball, or bumped in the act of shooting, and the cue ball (or another object ball) came back around where it might have effected the shot, technically that would be a foul. That is my understanding of "cue ball fouls only".


One Touch Warning, All Ball Fouls


I hear there is some sentiment for "all ball fouls". My concern about that is that it sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen without a neutral ref. My alternative idea, is: "All ball fouls with a one touch warning". Meaning, if you touch or move a ball prior to your shot, with your opponent's notice, position is restored and it's not a foul. However, it is "a warning". At that point both players basically are on notice that you have a potential foul situation, and the best thing to do is ask someone neutral to watch -- or if you guys trust each other, then just the two players pay closer attention. Because another touch -- even if you are still just setting up for the shot -- would be a foul. Also, ANY TIME, the shooter clearly touches or moves an object ball in the course of their shot, it is a foul. But notice I said "clearly touches or moves". This is one of those situations, unless a neutral party or ref is watching, then the shooter can't be called for an imaginary touch foul --it's either an obvious touch or moved ball, or there has to be a neutral observer or ref making the call. That is my rule suggestion.
 

catkins

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boulder creek ca
I always thought it was technically a foul to replace a ball you inadvertently moved before you opponent agreed since the opponent not only has the option but gets to place the ball where they thought it was.
 

lll

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vero beach fl
I always thought it was technically a foul to replace a ball you inadvertently moved before you opponent agreed since the opponent not only has the option but gets to place the ball where they thought it was.

i beleive you are correct
here is a painful lesson that happened to me
i am playing in a 1p tourney and am jacked up over a ball and the cue ball is also close to the ball i want to hit
my opponent called the TD over to watch the hit
on a warm up stroke i move the ball i was jacked over and instinctively put it back where it was
TD calls foul on me for replacing the ball
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Klamath Falls, Or.
i beleive you are correct
here is a painful lesson that happened to me
i am playing in a 1p tourney and am jacked up over a ball and the cue ball is also close to the ball i want to hit
my opponent called the TD over to watch the hit
on a warm up stroke i move the ball i was jacked over and instinctively put it back where it was
TD calls foul on me for replacing the ball

Larry, I can not find a ruling in WPA's rules that covers Cue Ball Foul Only! I see under Fouls that 6.6 Touched Ball: is essentially playing by ALL Ball Fouls.

It appears that General Rule WPA 1.16.1 Cue Ball Foul Only is no longer in existence, for now the general rules only has 12 categories with no mention of Cue Ball Foul Only! 1.8 Restoring a Position does not cover this scenario.

Thus in our Official OP Rules we go by the Cue Ball Foul Only Rule, but the extended rule of option of the opponent to restore a ball disturbed is not clearly defined, and a foul if the shooter restores without permission by their opponent. Which at the time, 2004 writing, it did not need to be included.

I may be incorrect on this but I can only stand by what I have found within WPA rules 2016. But, it clearly shows how WPA rules can change and do change, and since WPA general rules govern our rules unless otherwise clearly defined in our Official OP rules, we then obviously can not be secure in our rules for the future, and must always update our knowledge of the ever changing WPA rules. Whitey
 
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