My Theory on Today and One Pocket

Fast Lenny

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Well I had some people asking me about what I thought about Shane and Scott, they were confused how someone could win just getting a ball from the best. I would say a big reason is that the best players in the world are starting to take up one pocket and learning the game. Shane has been playing one pocket for a few years now, maybe 4-5 and being around top players like Frost, Reyes, Joyner and Chohan certainly has helped him since he is a phenom sponge so people should not get the wrong idea like he has never played the game. They realize after some good added money in those tournaments, the DCC all around title and the money to be made gambling that it is worthwhile. They see it is an exciting game and not just for old men dinking balls around all day, running 8 and out when no one see the out is awesome to watch and spectacular to perform.

We were all treated this past DCC to Shane vs Earl in the finals, I could have gotten huge odds that those two would never have been in the finals together. Strong players like Earl and Shane who are rotation players, the best rotation players alive who make shots from anywhere and have great cue ball control while making those tough shots and being able to manufacture run outs that we are unable to do. Us lovers of this great game are fortunate that this happened, that Shane and Earl faced off because it creates interest outside of the small circle of one pocket top players and up and coming players, it peaks interest for sure along with being exciting. People being exposed to what I would call offensive power one pocket by these great shot makers is what will continue to help the game grow, its not the old school bump and grind style which I do appreciate also and realize games are won and lost this way too.

I think we will see more top players crossing over from rotation games and as they get the bug called one pocket they will just become monsters. I think in the past it was just a handful of top players who played the game, take Willie Mosconi, Irving Crane, or someone even like Mike Sigel, with all the talent they have, if they learned one pocket, what would we be saying about them today. We might not be talking about Ronnie Allen being the best from the past, it might be one of the top rotation guys who crossed over. I do know guys like Ronnie Allen and also San Jose Dick were 9 ballers until they got into one pocket probably due to it being a gambling game where you can stall a bit at it and not show speed keeping someone on the line.

I just really think we have seen some great one pocket players and there are many more who we will see come along who cross over to the game with all the great talent they have, the person may want it the most, have natural talent, a champion, puts in the work practicing, playing tournaments all over the country and gambling. I still think Scott is the best in the world at one pocket, he has beaten Efren numerous times for the cash and Efren is no slouch as we all have been seeing. I do think Scott is shooting 1 ball under his speed now then when he won the Derby, I know all of you might think I am nuts and even Scott would not want to believe it but I have watched countless hours of him playing.

I saw him in the past 2 one pocket tournament playing Alex towards the end of each miss off angled combinations that are his strong suit, these combos were not hangers but were in close and I would have given odds on him making them, you have to make those when the guy has a ball hanging or strength on his side, he missed a couple of them in California and it cost him. The match with Alex at the Open he is hill-hill, breaks, makes a ball and has an off angle combo in close and missed it, if he makes it he will win that match and move forward. He struggled quite a bit in the US Open One Pocket but even though he is not playing his best he still gets far along which says a good deal about his talent. I have been witness to Scott running 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 and out, its unbelievable to see, I do not think Shane runs the balls any better than Scott when Scott locks down but Shane will probably never miss a routine shot EVER.

As for people speaking about endurance and heart, well Scott has a ton of heart, gamble and can play for a very long time, those who know him have seen it. I have never heard of Shane playing a 30 hour or more session, not saying he couldn't but what kind of Shane would he be after 30 hours, would he still be playing top notch, maybe so. I am not sure about Shanes backers though because Shane could have probably won a good deal of money working his way up the ladder with some of the players under Frost like Sylver, Rafael, Cliff and others but he has not fear and wants to beat the best along with the best there is money too. Scott might be down now, but he is certainly not out, never count that man out.
 

gulfportdoc

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That's a good assessment and snapshot of Scott's current play. No one knows him and his game better than do you.

I just assumed that Scott has been in a mild slump. It happens to everyone. My hope is that he's not drinking too much. I've seen booze and drugs shorten lots of good player's careers.

I agree with your points about younger rotation players getting into one-pocket. One-pocket takes all the skills, and offers unlimited ways to handicap. After trying to ply the intricacies of one-pocket well, the prospect of playing 9 or 10 ball becomes mind numbingly boring.:rolleyes: The younger guys still look at 1P as a runout game, but if you can do it, what the hell?!

Doc
 

petie

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I too have seen many a young athlete with lots of promise squander it to alcohol and drugs. Our sport has lots of examples without naming names.

I have wondered with Scott if it is the same problem a lot of guys have when they have gambled for the big bucks. It seems that when you gamble you get this high. It's almost like drugs in that you then get used to gambling for that amount and the only way to get the same high is to gamble for more. Now Scott has hit the big time with Dif and maybe he just can't get interested for lesser amounts.
 

jrhendy

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Nice post Lenny.

I agree with you about where Scott's game is at. My personal opinion is that the top tier players like Scott have to adjust their lifestyle some if they want to stay at the top. I have seen the results in the last few tournaments of what happens to the players who close the bar the night before.

We all like to party but there are lots of players like Shane who take it serious enough to keep it clean while competing. IMO these guys will keep getting the cheese unless the guys they are beating smarten up.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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jrhendy said:
Nice post Lenny.

I agree with you about where Scott's game is at. My personal opinion is that the top tier players like Scott have to adjust their lifestyle some if they want to stay at the top. I have seen the results in the last few tournaments of what happens to the players who close the bar the night before.

We all like to party but there are lots of players like Shane who take it serious enough to keep it clean while competing. IMO these guys will keep getting the cheese unless the guys they are beating smarten up.


What your saying is very true. And I have seen top players with money in thier pockets.

They donr even want too play. When they are short and hungry they play a lot better and harder.

But when people get some money. Thier abition drops.

And to play tough games and great players. If you are thier just playing its very hard too win.

THe will too win and desire to want too play. Has too be thier. Or else you will not play the game you need too win.

And beating a great shooter and ability that Shane has is always haed too beat.

And you dont breack players like Shane down. Because his will to win and desire too keep learning.

And I have never seen Shane in a match were he gave up.

He may show a little fateg or being tierd. BUt he will keep coming after you no matter wha the score is.

And Shane is at the age were you real learn and improve. He wants too be the greatest he can be.

Too himself. THats the person he id facing. Himself.
 

Fast Lenny

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Great comeback by Frost to get it back to even after being so far down, like I said, never count that man out even if he is down. I look for Frost to win tomorrow or at the very least have a lead. A few days in that pit have probably gotten his mind right and he is ready to get the money. Good luck to both players. :)
 

SJDinPHX

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Fast Lenny said:
Great comeback by Frost to get it back to even after being so far down, like I said, never count that man out even if he is down. I look for Frost to win tomorrow or at the very least have a lead. A few days in that pit have probably gotten his mind right and he is ready to get the money. Good luck to both players. :)

Lenny,

You, John and Artie make some very good points re; the way good players approach their challenges. I don't think the times have really changed that much, over the mindset that was predominant in the older days...Getting stuck good, and getting even, does not necessarily show a lot of "heart"...It shows stupidity for getting stuck in the first place...(also, you don't always get even...been there done that)..:eek:

There were always the talented players who pretty much stuck to the straight and narrow, and the guy's like RA, and others, (myself included) who tried to show everyone that you could drink, have fun, and do some funny stuff, and still overcome the guys who avoided those pitfalls.

It seemed to work in a lot of situations, especially for RA, who was very good at maintaining the right "mix"... Nobody did it better, for as many years, but, it eventually got to even him.

But in RA's case, (who's reign could have lasted much longer)...we have all seen what can happen to a real talent, who is not able to control his emotions and excesses...They usually burn out before they reach their maximum potential.

I see a new breed of player out there, who is conscious of his health and well being...We all know who they are... In the long run, its not hard to predict they will prevail over those who try to burn the candle at both ends...Been there done that too !...(but, it was fun)...:cool:
 
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Artie Bodendorfer

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SJDinPHX said:
Lenny,

You, John and Artie make some very good points re; the way good players approach their challenges. I don't think the times have really changed that much, over the mindset that was predominant in the older days...Getting stuck good, and getting even, does not necessarily show a lot of "heart"...It shows stupidity for getting stuck in the first place...(also, you don't always get even...been there done that)..:eek:

There were always the talented players who pretty much stuck to the straight and narrow, and the guy's like RA, and others, (myself included) who tried to show everyone that you could drink, have fun, and do some funny stuff, and still overcome the guys who avoided those pitfalls.

It seemed to work in a lot of situations, especially for RA, who was very good at maintaining the right "mix"... Nobody did it better, for as many years, but, it eventually got to even him.

But in RA's case, (who's reign could have lasted much longer)...we have all seen what can happen to a real talent, who is not able to control his emotions and excesses...They usually burn out before they reach their maximum potential.

I see a new breed of player out there, who is conscious of his health and well being...We all know who they are... In the long run, its not hard to predict they will prevail over those who try to burn the candle at both ends...Been there done that too !...(but, it was fun)...:cool:

You said that very good SJD. And things have not realy changed much when you look at the players from yester year and today.

They all shoot for the money. And its like it was back in our time.

THe onepocket players still play each other and gamble with each other. Were in nine ball and ten ball its very rare.

Unless its a match game and the price is like 5 or 10 thousand and the winner gets it.

I can tell you one thing. In my generation player. And you will understand this real good.

And I would not want too be in this position. If you are getting backet. And you are one set down.

Playing 8 games ahead. Thats brutile enough by itself. And you play again 8 games ahead for a nother set.

And you have too win 8 games ahead too get even. And the player gets Zerow money for breacking even.

Thats hard too play and give all that efort just too breack even. And most players would give up in that situation.

Scoot showed more heart and courage then I have ever seen. Buy a player. Dont get me wrong I like Shane in the game for lots off reasons.

But Scott made the greatest come back in life playing 8 games ahead. Witch I have never seen. In my life or herd anything like that.

Scott was down 7 games to nothing. One game lest loose the game and you get too go home and sleep and eat and relax.

Most players would have thrown in the towl and changed the game. Or get a different backer.

Because Scott couldnt win anything being 2 sessions down. BUt he gave everything he had.

And only his heart and courage gave hin the strength too come back.

To even and Scott was 3 games ahed and Shane got even and then Shane was 4 games ahead and Scott got back too even.

And thats when the both decided too take a rest. And they played for a long time.

But what amazies me and I have never seen it its the first. Scott was down 7 games. One more game and its over if Shane wines.

Does everyone realize when you are 7 games stuck and you are playing 8 ahead.

That the player Scott no longer is playing 8 ahead. He is playing 15 games ahead.

Becayse he has too win back the seven games and then wi 8 more too win the session. It is without a dought.

If he ends up winning the session it will be the greatest comback I have ever herd in a onepocket session.

I no howe brutle it is to have too think that you have too win 15 games ahead to win the money.

Because thatswhat he has too do to win. Once you are down 7 games. Five ahead is brytile enough.

Sessions like this could be played for a week for someone too win it. Because the games go back and fourth a lot.

THe would be better off playing a race to 15 games ot 18 games or more or what ever they want to play too.

Five games ahed is long enough. And thats what they should play to or even 6 ahead.

The longer two great players play. THe spot I feel becomes harder and harder.

I have never in my life seen anyone play 8 ahead. Imagine playing 8 games ahead and both players agree too play tell someone wins it.

Itsmpossable because once they get thier everbody runs out off gas.

And The only way some one could win that session. If they are playing tell someone wins it. And no trsting.

The player who passes out would loose even if he is ahead 4 games.
Because he cant go no more and its like quiting.

And thats reay putting some pressure down on both off those player.

But this is as hard as it can be for both players.

I can Honestly say that whoever wins it Both Players Will Know That They Were In A Pool Game.

And the will never forget the session thier playing. And howe brutle it was.

And its sessions like this that can change a players mind and realy start playing one pocket.

Because both players love the chalange. And Shane is Learning. And that is not in Scotts favor.

And Shane has a tone off ability topo go with it. Belive me its very hard too beat a great shooter Like Shane.

THat is 100% commited. BUt Scott has showen signs off life. And the best bet is that they wont finish the session even tommarow.

Her is another one for people too think about. Witch way would you bet if they played 40 games. Would someone get 8 games ahead . Yes or No.

For a player to get 8 ahead. If he two out off three games. It would take 24 games.

If he wins 3 games out off every 5 games. It would take exacly 40 games for one player too get 8 games ahead.

And thats howe hard a grind it is. every five games he picks up a game. Winning 3 out off 5 games.

Its the hardest session I ever herd off. And it may never finish. THe only quick way for one off the players to win. Is if they win 8 games in a rowe. Or 9 games out off ten.

Or 10 out off twelve. But the problem with that is. If the game is even. THe odds for that too happen are astranomicale.

But I think the action and betting will pick up. Because everyone sees nobody has any bargan.

But for teal onepocket lovers it would be great too fly in and watch it. You get too see two off the greatest plat in a real session.

For good money. And it doesnt cost you a dime too watch. And whats funny I herd all the sweathers left. And it was just Shane and Scott playing with no sweathers left.

They put the sweathers too sleep. But tommarow is a nother day. And by the time its over.

Everyone will be very tierd. Who thinks it will be finishet tomarrow.

This is a real onepocket session. And the best player will win it. Its not 3 out off 5 . Or 4 out off 7. Its a real session.

Longest onepocket session I ever herd off. And both players are great. And Scott is a better player. But the spot makes it very tight.

And both players have had good streacks. Ass far as I am concered this is the best one pocket session off the year.

And Maybe in life. You have too give credit were its desirved,

And both players desirve it. And the could even set a record off the longest session ever played. Before someone one it.

Your not going too see too meny off these kinds off sesions with two great players.

Enjoy it if you can. Its a real Beauty. And a tournement game doesnt compaire too this.

But thats the greatest comeback I ever seem. Being 7 games down. And getting back too even.

I no the house has too love it. Nothing better for the place. And the advertisement.

THis id onepocket at its finest. And not a lot off players can stand up and play these kind off sessions.

It the session is still being played by Friday and saturday. I think the place will be packet.

Its sure rough too play all those houers and not get a cracker.

Put look at all the fun thier having. And the good part for Shane is that he doesnt have too practice for 8 houers a day.

He is spending all his time playing now. And the more he plays. THe more he will love the game.

He will get hocket to one pocket. Because its haed to play and concentrate on a lot off different games.

Greatest session off the year. It does not get any better then this.

May Lefty or Righty win.
 

petie

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
What your saying is very true. And I have seen top players with money in thier pockets.

They donr even want too play. When they are short and hungry they play a lot better and harder.

But when people get some money. Thier abition drops.

And to play tough games and great players. If you are thier just playing its very hard too win.

THe will too win and desire to want too play. Has too be thier. Or else you will not play the game you need too win.

And beating a great shooter and ability that Shane has is always haed too beat.

And you dont breack players like Shane down. Because his will to win and desire too keep learning.

And I have never seen Shane in a match were he gave up.

He may show a little fateg or being tierd. BUt he will keep coming after you no matter wha the score is.

And Shane is at the age were you real learn and improve. He wants too be the greatest he can be.

Too himself. THats the person he id facing. Himself.

Did you see the TAR 10-ball match with Shane and Earl on a ten footer? That table plus Earls great shooting pretty much took Shanes heart out. He got to where he couldn't make a 3 ball run out. It was clear he didn't want to be there.
 

petie

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Is it possible Scott is playing with his own money? That might account for all his effort.

Also, I'm thinking, and please correct me, that the longer they play, the better it is for Scott. I remember all the young hot shots that fired at Paul Brusloff aka Jew Paul. They all knew that Paul would go off for the real big cash if you could beat him. Trouble is, the longer they played--the better he got in comparison to his competition. I think this was due to his enormous experience playing one pocket so that hanging in a long session was not as mentally fatiguing to him as it was for his less experienced opponent. He automatically knew the shot without bending his mind too far whereas the younger players were thinking through each shot which would tire them out faster. Scott has this advantage over Shane and it might rise to the top in a long session like this. What do you think?
 

androd

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petie said:
Is it possible Scott is playing with his own money? That might account for all his effort.

Also, I'm thinking, and please correct me, that the longer they play, the better it is for Scott. I remember all the young hot shots that fired at Paul Brusloff aka Jew Paul. They all knew that Paul would go off for the real big cash if you could beat him. Trouble is, the longer they played--the better he got in comparison to his competition. I think this was due to his enormous experience playing one pocket so that hanging in a long session was not as mentally fatiguing to him as it was for his less experienced opponent. He automatically knew the shot without bending his mind too far whereas the younger players were thinking through each shot which would tire them out faster. Scott has this advantage over Shane and it might rise to the top in a long session like this. What do you think?

Makes a lot of sense. ;)
Rod.
 

jrhendy

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Fast Lenny said:
Great comeback by Frost to get it back to even after being so far down, like I said, never count that man out even if he is down. I look for Frost to win tomorrow or at the very least have a lead. A few days in that pit have probably gotten his mind right and he is ready to get the money. Good luck to both players. :)

I know he was disappointed at his finish in the one pocket in Las Vegas and he came back with a vengeance in the ten ball. If you look at the brackets he dusted off some great players in a game he is not considered one of the best at. It shows he can still dig down and bring it, even in a different game, but with more of the talented players playing more one pocket, his position at the top will be hard to hold on to.
 

Scrzbill

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If you dont keep your mind and body healthy, it will betray you. Constantly drowning yourself with alcohol and or drugs will catch up to you. At the DCC and California billiards, I saw a lot of the top players unable to perform the next day as well as they should because of Demon Rum. I'm having trouble concentrating today for some reason.
 

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jrhendy

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Scrzbill said:
If you dont keep your mind and body healthy, it will betray you. Constantly drowning yourself with alcohol and or drugs will catch up to you. At the DCC and California billiards, I saw a lot of the top players unable to perform the next day as well as they should because of Demon Rum. I'm having trouble concentrating today for some reason.

You are an Angry Bird!
 

Fast Lenny

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jrhendy said:
I know he was disappointed at his finish in the one pocket in Las Vegas and he came back with a vengeance in the ten ball. If you look at the brackets he dusted off some great players in a game he is not considered one of the best at. It shows he can still dig down and bring it, even in a different game, but with more of the talented players playing more one pocket, his position at the top will be hard to hold on to.

Yes that is what I am getting at John my original post. I think one pocket for many years was played by a small group of players and they were known as the best, the top 5 are pretty much the same on anyone's list. I think today you have the circle growing larger with more of your top players getting into one pocket. We can look at most one pocket tournaments and there are usually 5 guys who are favorites to win it, I think we will see that expand to maybe 20 or so guys who are favorites to win it.

I know in the straight pool days many did not cross over to one pocket or never really played it, with all the ability guys like Mosconi, Crane, Caras and others had including players from 20-30 years back like Sigel, Mizerak and Buddy Hall, those players might be the ones we are talking about today as opposed to whom we talk about now. Ronnie Allen is regarded as the best in his day but there were better shot makers out there and talents, they just did not take up one pocket. With more guys out there taking up the game we do not know where its going to head but its for the best that it grows, more tournaments and more action for us to sweat. Maybe one day there will be a One Pocket Tour, decent added money every month at different places in the country, even if its just $5000 added individual room tournaments every month that would be great.

Today with the money in the one pocket tournaments, like the big pay day for the all around at DCC, gambling, and other things it pays to learn one pocket, to be a great one pocket player nowadays you can make money. Like that saying goes, "There are alotta guys doin it, but only one can be the best." . I think it is great for us one pocket fans to see more top pool players playing this game, I really think one pocket is growing and taking off. Younger players are showing interest in this game and that is what will be the future and we need to welcome those players into the game for sure. One thing that is great to see is an 8 or 9 ball player get the one pocket bug and want to play nothing else, its such a great game and makes you a better all around player.
 

Fatboy

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Shane has been playing 1P longer than 4-5 years. You became aware of it 4-5 years ago is what happened. Shane has been playing everything for ever, he started playing pool almost 20 years ago.


I also think Scott is the best 1P player right now and will be for along time to come. I dont see Shane beating Scott even, he might could if he stopped playing everything for a while and focused 100% on one pocket for a year to really learn more(i'm guessig a year could be less time or more) perhaps Shane is playing the best 1P he will ever play, no body really knows. But thats not where the $$$ is for him. One pocket players dont get sponsorships like 9 & 10 ball tournament players do. And that sponsorship $$ is strong, you get paid before you hit a ball every month.
 
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Artie Bodendorfer

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petie said:
Is it possible Scott is playing with his own money? That might account for all his effort.

Also, I'm thinking, and please correct me, that the longer they play, the better it is for Scott. I remember all the young hot shots that fired at Paul Brusloff aka Jew Paul. They all knew that Paul would go off for the real big cash if you could beat him. Trouble is, the longer they played--the better he got in comparison to his competition. I think this was due to his enormous experience playing one pocket so that hanging in a long session was not as mentally fatiguing to him as it was for his less experienced opponent. He automatically knew the shot without bending his mind too far whereas the younger players were thinking through each shot which would tire them out faster. Scott has this advantage over Shane and it might rise to the top in a long session like this. What do you think?


Scott is the better player. And he definarlt knowes more one pocket.

Thiier is no dought who the better player is. No matter who wins.

And thats why Scott is spoting Shane. Scott knowes what he is doing. And so those Shane.

Its all out in the open. And the qouistion is who has more staying power.

And I dont give either player a edge in that department.

But I do no from lots off playing experience. The longer you play the better for the player getting the spot.

Thier is no dought. Is Scoot was a Moving style off player. Then it could shifte his way.

But he is a shooter playing one pocket more then Shane. And he gets my nod that he shoots at better shots then Shane.

But Shanes acracy is so good and his control and his shot makeing. That it will be hard too beat a player that shoots that strong.

And jacket up off the rail with a open bridge nobody does that better then Shane.

And just one shot making it or missing it can be the difference off two games.

THe game is close its a tough game for both players. And I like Shane even though Scott is the better and more knowledgable player.

And I think the malority off people and bettots will bet on Scott.

And the only way too see what happines is if they play again.

And I hope its not 8 ahead. Six ahead is good enough. Or the first player to get too 21 games.

And my friend Dock Herbert mentioned that game. And gets the credit for bring that up.

It was his Idea. And I likr it.
 
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