Efren Reyes vs. Nick Varner 1999 D.C.C. #2

[Cowboy Dennis]

It's game one and no score yet. It's Efren's shot. What would you do?

 

[wgcp]

Shoot the three, it looks like the perfect angle to get behind the two even if you miss it...

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

A little help perhaps. It may save confusion later.

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

Two good things to do here...

One choice is a potentially very effective and powerful power shot, but there's a risk involved: Shoot the ball 4ball 2 rails into the 13 ball with speed, medium-hard, and draw-stiff the cueball sideways into the 12 balls thus sending a slew of balls towards your pocket - the downside gamble/risk to the shot is that you could catch a kiss from the 4 or 13 balls - probably worth the gamble though because you're going to get a lot of positive action from this shot...

The other, more conservative choice, is to shoot the 3ball...shooting to make the 3ball if that angle naturally sends the cueball behind the 4ball and down to the bottom rail and behind the 13ball...if you don't have that angle, then you play the cueball thinner off the 3ball, or fuller, shooting th 3ball into the 5-2 combination with a soft follow stroke - choosing whichever shot/angle will allow you to get the cueball between the 4 and the long rail, ending up down on the bottom rail and behind the 13ball.

- Ghost

 

[Frank Almanza]

Either the shot on the three or this.Or kick at the 13 ball.

 

[petie]

Easy, cut the 3 and fall to the rail beside the 4. I'm really trying to go a few inches farther so I can make some more balls but I'm happy once I get past the place from where he could cut the four in.

 

[fred bentivegna]

Hoppe system

Hoppe system

Using the Willie Hoppe follow system, it is an easy matter to follow the cue ball behind the 4 ball and down to the rail. You will probably have to hit the 3 ball fairly full, but it will give positive action by caroming off any one of the balls in the middle of the table on your side.

It is much easier to control the path of the cue ball with follow rather than a thin cut. The Hoppe follow system is monstrously accurate.

Beard

 

[bstroud]

I really see two options here.

I would shoot the three in with follow, go behind and hit the 2 ball and down to the top rail. The danger here, even if you make the 3 ball, is the possibility of getting behind the ball near your opponents pocket. Playing with Aramith balls you could even get stuck to it and not have anything.

For the player without the confidence to shoot the 3 ball there is the rail first behind the 2 ball and leave the cue ball behind the ball near your opponents pocket.
This type of shot is really simple using the mirror ball system and would produce a good result.

Bill Stroud

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

I really see two options here.

I would shoot the three in with follow, go behind and hit the 2 ball and down to the top rail. The danger here, even if you make the 3 ball, is the possibility of getting behind the ball near your opponents pocket. Playing with Aramith balls you could even get stuck to it and not have anything.

For the player without the confidence to shoot the 3 ball there is the rail first behind the 2 ball and leave the cue ball behind the ball near your opponents pocket.
This type of shot is really simple using the mirror ball system and would produce a good result.

Bill Stroud

Sometimes I wonder why I waste my time.

 

[bstroud]

Sorry,

Not the 2 ball the 4 ball.

Bill

 

[Skin]

It is much easier to control the path of the cue ball with follow rather than a thin cut. The Hoppe follow system is monstrously accurate.

Beard

Amen, brother!

Here is a diagram and explanation of it that I posted on here a couple of years ago.

Skin

 

[jtompilot]

Cutting the 3 doesnt look very safe to me.

I like franks, ghost, or beards shot.

I would chicken out and shoot Franks shot. Dont forget the qb is close to the rail and a long ways away.

 

[WillieNilly]

i might try one of these three things.......

ideal result option;
soft roll up behind the 13 is nice even if it results in a scratch.

my aggressive option
IF ( <---big if ) it lines up a firm stopish shot on the 11 may clear it and the 13 from nicks side , possibly more . little roll of the dice.

passive option with purpose if rail not available for soft kick on 13;
a rail first soft kick the 4 ball too the end rail on the 13 . tieing up and blocking some banking lanes and not leaving much of an agressive offensive reply. might result in a scratch, i dont hit these that well but it doesnt exclude me from trying it.

 

[vapros]

I don't recall ever hearing of the Hoppe follow system before, or seeing Skin's illustration, but when I saw the layout in this thread I doubted that one could shoot the 3 ball in and get behind the 4 ball, both. Looks to me like the cb will go to the the long rail in time to give up at least three easy shots if you miss.

So, I favor hitting the 3 too full to make it (barring a helpful kiss), and putting the emphasis on sending the cb where you want it. Put me down as a fan of Hoppe's system.

 

[ChrisBanks]

Amen, brother!

Here is a diagram and explanation of it that I posted on here a couple of years ago.

Skin

I'll try and make some sense here........

I think the cueball can't possibly travel on the path of the red line. It will travel on a different line that is close to the red line, and they will both meet at the "object" as you call it.

For example, if a sliver of another object ball lied on the red line, you could still hit the "object" because the cueball does not travel precisely on the red line.

The line the cueball travels would be a line from the "object" through the center of the ghostball (not provided in picture).

And even that is not completely true, because the cueball will hook slightly after contacting the object ball.

So while the diagram is good and I am glad that it was posted, it is not quite that simple.

Bob Jewett has a good article on this somewhere, which incorporates the slight deviation that the cueball path takes.

 

[fred bentivegna]

Eh?

Eh?

I'll try and make some sense here........

I think the cueball can't possibly travel on the path of the red line. It will travel on a different line that is close to the red line, and they will both meet at the "object" as you call it.

For example, if a sliver of another object ball lied on the red line, you could still hit the "object" because the cueball does not travel precisely on the red line.

The line the cueball travels would be a line from the "object" through the center of the ghostball (not provided in picture).

And even that is not completely true, because the cueball will hook slightly after contacting the object ball.

So while the diagram is good and I am glad that it was posted, it is not quite that simple.

Bob Jewett has a good article on this somewhere, which incorporates the slight deviation that the cueball path takes.

Well whatever the cue ball "really" does, I will still bet my bankroll that I can use that system and drop that cue ball behind the 4 ball. Just like I have been doing with that system for 50 years. If you smooth stroke the cue ball and dont bounce it that is exactly where the cue ball will go.

Beard

 

[ChrisBanks]

I just made up a crude drawing of what I think happens. I think it's easy enough to understand, even though it looks like a small child drew it up.

I don't know if I attached it right, we'll see if it works.

 

[Miller]

i'd look hard at a 4/12 billiard, looks like it could move a couple of balls

 

[vapros]

I"m looking at ChrisBanks' diagram. I agree that there is a little kink in the path of the cb after contact - that's why it's important to hit the shot smoothly, to minimize the kink. And I think the kink is greater when the hit is thinner.

On the other hand, I believe that the green line should be very nearly parallel to the red line, if not exactly parallel. That's just my opinion, but before I came to that view I scratched a lot of times on shots that I thought I had hit well, on shallow angles down the long rail. Anybody else?

 

[lll]

Sometimes I wonder why I waste my time.

View attachment 4218

you dont waste your time
some of us pay attention
anyway hit the 3 to put it near your hole to have a "threatening" ball there
im playing cue ball here