💡 First Post 💡 The BEST One Pocket skill is....

[Skin]

As in learning to effectively use a bridge? Turning it sideways or stacking etc..Is this what you're referring to? If not please enlighten me sir.

All of it. Off the rail, in tight, over the balls, in the air, off-handed, the rake, you name it.

 

[Bigkat]

All of it. Off the rail, in tight, over the balls, in the air, off-handed, the rake, you name it.

I understand. That is important...Out of curiosity are you a fan of the "cue extensions" to avoid the bridge? What has been your experience?

 

[lll]

I understand. That is important...Out of curiosity are you a fan of the "cue extensions" to avoid the bridge? What has been your experience?

I know this was not directed at me, but I am a big fan and user of an extension
But I do practice to be more proficient with the rest as the European snooker players: call the bridge

 

[BRLongArm]

Does this "game knowledge" come only from playing the game or can someone acquire it another way?

If it took actually playing to gain all the knowledge, we wouldn't have a 22 year old at the top of the food chain in one pocket. Experience is learning from your own mistakes. Knowledge is learning from other's mistakes. Fedor has a lot of knowledge. The internet is a wonderful tool.

 

[sorackem]

Good eyes

 

[Tom Wirth]

I'm coming out of retirement on this thread. I just got off the phone with LLL
and in the course of our conversation I suggested that once strong fundamentals have been achieved, players of the game of One Pocket are in need of one particular skill or attribute (if you will) over all others. That attribute being a strong imagination. I'm more than a little surprised no one as yet mentioned it.

What makes Tony C. and Efren such fabulous One Pocket players? Is it their pure shot making skills? I'd say not. Is it their cue ball control? In my opinion, no again. As one example, I would think shot for shot SVB pockets balls better. His cue ball control is at least as good if not better than either Tony or Efren, but who among you would bet on SVB over Tony or Efren in his prime in long sets of One Hole? Not me. I don't wish to take anything away from Shane but Tony and Efren both think on a different plane than most all other One Pocket players.

I would suggest their imagination for what is possible is what makes these two players so dangerous. There are others, but I will settle for these two to help make my case. Their knowledge on how balls react to one another and how they flow from cushion to cushion allows these players to exercise their imaginations to the fullest. How did these players develop this talent for seeing obscure shots others fail to see? The answer lays in intense observation and analysis of what they witnessed and a willingness to experiment just as intensely on the practice table. The imagination can be thought of as a muscle. It needs to be exercised like any other muscle.

I've never been in the same league as either Tony or Efren though I did beat Tony 3 - 0 at the Derby in '05 (very proud of that win) but the one attribute I had working for me above all my other skills was my imagination for what was possible. My imagination is what won that match for me. It is the single most effective attribute that makes the average shooter dangerous. And at the pro level in my prime I would consider myself an average shooter. Get me up close and I could reign a barrage of hurt on an opponent mostly because I know how to pick a rack apart, but leave me long and you quickly would see the vulnerable side of my game. These days my stroke may be crooked, my eyes not so sharp, my stamina more than a little weak but my imagination for what is possible has never wavered and still I search for new ideas to incorporate into the game of One Pocket.
I would hope you do the same. That's what separates this game from all others and it is where the fun is.

Tom

 

[gulfportdoc]

Great points, Tom! Along with an intuitive imagination, I believe that a strong spatial awareness goes hand in hand. What I mean by that is being able to see the entire table layout, and then imagine how that complete layout will change on any given shot selection.

IMO that's what made Ronnie Allen so great-- a natural spatial awareness. He wasn't the best shot maker among the pros by a long shot. But so often when he took a defensive shot he'd uncannily be able to move a large percentage of the balls away from the opponent's hole and toward his own. I think that Tony and Efren have that too, but RA was its first practitioner...

 

[Bigkat]

If it took actually playing to gain all the knowledge, we wouldn't have a 22 year old at the top of the food chain in one pocket. Experience is learning from your own mistakes. Knowledge is learning from other's mistakes. Fedor has a lot of knowledge. The internet is a wonderful tool.

I don't he's VERY BEST, but I get your point. Your point is valid sir.

 

[lfigueroa]

There is no universal on this one.

It is about knowing your game and where you're at, and what you can realistically execute and what you cannot. When you're looking at the table you can't be thinking, "What would Efren do?" It does you no good to dream at this game.

"A man's got to know his limitations."

Loiu Figueroa

 

[Bigkat]

I'm coming out of retirement on this thread. I just got off the phone with LLL
and in the course of our conversation I suggested that once strong fundamentals have been achieved, players of the game of One Pocket are in need of one particular skill or attribute (if you will) over all others. That attribute being a strong imagination. I'm more than a little surprised no one as yet mentioned it.

What makes Tony C. and Efren such fabulous One Pocket players? Is it their pure shot making skills? I'd say not. Is it their cue ball control? In my opinion, no again. As one example, I would think shot for shot SVB pockets balls better. His cue ball control is at least as good if not better than either Tony or Efren, but who among you would bet on SVB over Tony or Efren in his prime in long sets of One Hole? Not me. I don't wish to take anything away from Shane but Tony and Efren both think on a different plane than most all other One Pocket players.

I would suggest their imagination for what is possible is what makes these two players so dangerous. There are others, but I will settle for these two to help make my case. Their knowledge on how balls react to one another and how they flow from cushion to cushion allows these players to exercise their imaginations to the fullest. How did these players develop this talent for seeing obscure shots others fail to see? The answer lays in intense observation and analysis of what they witnessed and a willingness to experiment just as intensely on the practice table. The imagination can be thought of as a muscle. It needs to be exercised like any other muscle.

I've never been in the same league as either Tony or Efren though I did beat Tony 3 - 0 at the Derby in '05 (very proud of that win) but the one attribute I had working for me above all my other skills was my imagination for what was possible. My imagination is what won that match for me. It is the single most effective attribute that makes the average shooter dangerous. And at the pro level in my prime I would consider myself an average shooter. Get me up close and I could reign a barrage of hurt on an opponent mostly because I know how to pick a rack apart, but leave me long and you quickly would see the vulnerable side of my game. These days my stroke may be crooked, my eyes not so sharp, my stamina more than a little weak but my imagination for what is possible has never wavered and still I search for new ideas to incorporate into the game of One Pocket.
I would hope you do the same. That's what separates this game from all others and it is where the fun is.

Tom

Imagination is sooooo important. I think it's vital once you've reached a certain level, as you've stated!! That is what separates!!

 

[Bigkat]

There is no universal on this one.

It is about knowing your game and where you're at, and what you can realistically execute and what you cannot. When you're looking at the table you can't be thinking, "What would Efren do?" It does you no good to dream at this game.

"A man's got to know his limitations."

Loiu Figueroa

Being REALISTIC is sooo important. You can imagine but you must be able to execute

 

[Bigkat]

I know this was not directed at me, but I am a big fan and user of an extension
But I do practice to be more proficient with the rest as the European snooker players: call the bridge

Do you favor the extension on the butt of the cue or a "longer" cue??

 

[lll]

Do you favor the extension on the butt of the cue or a "longer" cue??

extension on the butt when needed
i have not experimented with a longer cue

 

[BRLongArm]

I'm coming out of retirement on this thread. I just got off the phone with LLL
and in the course of our conversation I suggested that once strong fundamentals have been achieved, players of the game of One Pocket are in need of one particular skill or attribute (if you will) over all others. That attribute being a strong imagination. I'm more than a little surprised no one as yet mentioned it.

What makes Tony C. and Efren such fabulous One Pocket players? Is it their pure shot making skills? I'd say not. Is it their cue ball control? In my opinion, no again. As one example, I would think shot for shot SVB pockets balls better. His cue ball control is at least as good if not better than either Tony or Efren, but who among you would bet on SVB over Tony or Efren in his prime in long sets of One Hole? Not me. I don't wish to take anything away from Shane but Tony and Efren both think on a different plane than most all other One Pocket players.

I would suggest their imagination for what is possible is what makes these two players so dangerous. There are others, but I will settle for these two to help make my case. Their knowledge on how balls react to one another and how they flow from cushion to cushion allows these players to exercise their imaginations to the fullest. How did these players develop this talent for seeing obscure shots others fail to see? The answer lays in intense observation and analysis of what they witnessed and a willingness to experiment just as intensely on the practice table. The imagination can be thought of as a muscle. It needs to be exercised like any other muscle.

I've never been in the same league as either Tony or Efren though I did beat Tony 3 - 0 at the Derby in '05 (very proud of that win) but the one attribute I had working for me above all my other skills was my imagination for what was possible. My imagination is what won that match for me. It is the single most effective attribute that makes the average shooter dangerous. And at the pro level in my prime I would consider myself an average shooter. Get me up close and I could reign a barrage of hurt on an opponent mostly because I know how to pick a rack apart, but leave me long and you quickly would see the vulnerable side of my game. These days my stroke may be crooked, my eyes not so sharp, my stamina more than a little weak but my imagination for what is possible has never wavered and still I search for new ideas to incorporate into the game of One Pocket.
I would hope you do the same. That's what separates this game from all others and it is where the fun is.

Tom

One man's imagination is another man's standard shot selection after playing one pocket a long time. As the bible says, "there is nothing new under the sun." A novice to one pocket would watch in wonder as a seasoned pro plied his trade, but those of us used to watching them expect or predict much of what they do. Every now and then, Chohan or D Smith will shoot a shot that is truly unexpected, but that is not common. Not after watching them play for so long.

Guys like Alex P, Dennis, Busty, SVB and Gorst play a pretty standard game, but still are considered elite. Their ability to run out from a bank or a missed shot make them elite. They may not have the imagination of some, but they are just as elite because of their knowledge and ball running. Their high gear is not quite like Tony when it is all working, but day in, day out, they'll beat Tony because their average will beat Tony's average.

 

[Tom Wirth]

They may not have the imagination of some, but they are just as elite because of their knowledge and ball running. Their high gear is not quite like Tony when it is all working, but day in, day out, they'll beat Tony because their average will beat Tony's average.
Joe, what you say certainly has merit but consider this. The shot making skills of Alex, Dennis, Busty, SVB, and Fedor all exceed that of Tony, but the flip side to that is that Tony's imagination keeps him competitive with any of those players. Now suppose all or any of the afore mentioned players learned to develop an imagination for the game to equal Tony's, how would that impact the quality of their game? This is all about knowing how things work in the world of dynamics and applying that knowledge in unique ways. A fertile pool and billiard imagination is like looking into a microscope for the first time. What wonders await on the practice table if only we pay attention to everything that's happening and figuring out the why? It is the mathematical side to One Pocket. There is always room to improve this area of a player's game. On the other hand, improving one's shot making and cueing skills may not be so easy to improve upon.
One word of warning though, This imaginative thinking has a way of turning on you during game play. I'm sure we've all seen Tony and others play some hairbrained shot that only he knew what he was attempting. I've been there more times than I wish to remember. Yikes!
Tom

 

[lfigueroa]

Generally speaking, “imaginative” shots inherently come with the downside of higher levels of risk.

One goes and you’re a wunderkin. It doesn’t go and to quote Danny, “You sleep in the street.” However, one thing is now true: modern era players have expanded the scope of what is considered standard play. There are now safeties, banks, and kicks that old school players would have frowned on and perhaps charitably called “imaginative” but are now in most player’s standard repertoire.

As has been alluded to, there’s a lot to be said for just being able to consistently play basic strategy and run balls like water. The one-in-fiver, maybe not so much.

Lou Figueroa

 

[BRLongArm]

They may not have the imagination of some, but they are just as elite because of their knowledge and ball running. Their high gear is not quite like Tony when it is all working, but day in, day out, they'll beat Tony because their average will beat Tony's average.
Joe, what you say certainly has merit but consider this. The shot making skills of Alex, Dennis, Busty, SVB, and Fedor all exceed that of Tony, but the flip side to that is that Tony's imagination keeps him competitive with any of those players. Now suppose all or any of the afore mentioned players learned to develop an imagination for the game to equal Tony's, how would that impact the quality of their game? This is all about knowing how things work in the world of dynamics and applying that knowledge in unique ways. A fertile pool and billiard imagination is like looking into a microscope for the first time. What wonders await on the practice table if only we pay attention to everything that's happening and figuring out the why? It is the mathematical side to One Pocket. There is always room to improve this area of a player's game. On the other hand, improving one's shot making and cueing skills may not be so easy to improve upon.
One word of warning though, This imaginative thinking has a way of turning on you during game play. I'm sure we've all seen Tony and others play some hairbrained shot that only he knew what he was attempting. I've been there more times than I wish to remember. Yikes!
Tom

My friend, Tom, you make good points as usual. But I would say necessity is the mother of invention. Tony shoots those shots to make up for his only great but not elite shooting. If he didn't take chances, he couldn't win. So he finds himself on the wire, operating without a net. Dennis, Busty and Fedor don't need it, so they don't risk it. Alex can play any style but usually embraces the grind. If Tony shot like Dennis, you wouldn't see him take those chances. No need. To see a great shooter press the envelope too often, you need only watch Corey Deuel. Great player, but loses games he should win by taking unnecessary risks at the wrong time.

 

[Tom Wirth]

Hey Lou and Joe, Sure, if you happen to be endlessly searching for wild shots you will find them. I would call that a runaway imagination. Solid players must discriminate as to the best shot according to the situation at all times. The more shots your mind can conjure, the more options available, the more weapons a player has. No one is suggesting that just because an imaginative shot comes to mind that shot should be the one taken.
Joe, as you stated correctly Corey has a very fertile mind for interesting pool shots. That is not his problem. The problem stems from a failure to curb his appetite for many of these more risky shots. And Lou, running balls like water sometimes includes finding an imaginative shot which can be played with a high degree of safety. It's all in the knowing and in the ability to say no.
Tom

 

[Tom Wirth]

Hey Lou and Joe, Sure, if you happen to be endlessly searching for wild shots you will find them. I would call that a runaway imagination should you also be eager to shoot at them. Solid players must discriminate as to the best shot according to the situation at all times. The more shots your mind can conjure, the more options available, the more weapons a player has. No one is suggesting that just because an imaginative shot comes to mind that shot should be the one taken.
Joe, as you stated correctly Corey has a very fertile mind for interesting pool shots. That is not his problem. The problem stems from a failure to curb his appetite for many of these more risky shots. And Lou, running balls like water sometimes includes finding an imaginative shot which can be played with a high degree of safety. It's all in the knowing and in the ability to say no.
Tom

 

[Skin]

I understand. That is important...Out of curiosity are you a fan of the "cue extensions" to avoid the bridge? What has been your experience?

I don't have an extension, so don't use one. I'll shoot off-handed when I can instead of using the rake, but I don't mind the rake if I have to use it.