S. Murphy vs. S.V.B. 2013 D.C.C.

[wincardona]

I recently set the shot up as best I can figure it given the view provided in this wwyd thread. I concede that the three rail shot can't be hit short enough to pocket the ball. However it can still be played long and to the short rail while leaving the cue ball up table and in a safe location much like the one rail shot can be positioned. I also concede the one rail shot is far easier to execute consistantly as far as speed and accuracy.

In attempting the one rail shot however I was not able to transfer enough english to the object ball to turn it toward the hole. Maybe with a different set of balls or a table with dryer conditions the shot can be made but I wouldn't bet 5 to win 7 on it.

Bill, I will have to take another look at the shot you envisioned. This situation comes up frequently in One Pocket end games and to have another shot in my quiver will be a wecome addition.

Tom

Tom, the shot I was referring too is the shot Steve drew up. The 1ball looks to be a little far from the rail to play that shot comfortably, plus the angle is also a little steep, however, it's still an option, even from the position referenced.

Dr.Bill

 

[wincardona]

1 railer is a poor choice IMO.. make the 1 ball in the side and draw the cueball up table by the corner pocket on opponents side. As we have already seen how many times people give up 1 railers and 2 railers from the resulting position. Every shot can't be a homerun.. play defense and get a better chance next inning. I changed my mind.. after seeing the shot Steve described I like it with a little change... I like softly banking the 1 ball off the end rail than back to about the 2nd diamond and bring the cueball across table to about the 3rd diamond

Drawing the cue ball to the far corner pocket is a losing shot from this position. I'm surprised that a player of your caliber has endorsed that shot. If the shot was laying natural than that would be different but it isn't. Your last suggested option with banking the 1ball to the middle of the side rail is a much better choice.......good come back. I still like banking the 1ball back down to the bottom rail and leaving distance, that shot carries the right speed for both balls to be the best option if it's available.

Dr. Bill

 

[Frank Almanza]

Drawing the cue ball to the far corner pocket is a losing shot from this position. I'm surprised that a player of your caliber has endorsed that shot. If the shot was laying natural than that would be different but it isn't. Your last suggested option with banking the 1ball to the middle of the side rail is a much better choice.......good come back. I still like banking the 1ball back down to the bottom rail and leaving distance, that shot carries the right speed for both balls to be the best option if it's available.

Dr. Bill

I agree with you about the one rail bank to the bottom rail where both balls will have the proper speed. Not only is that shot somewhat offensive but it also is one of best defensive shots if hit fairly decent.
The worse that could happen is if you miss hit it to the point of the corner pocket and the ball leaks out to the middle of the table (very unlikely), or you might pocket the ball and it goes on the spot.

 

[Miller]

Drawing the cue ball to the far corner pocket is a losing shot from this position. I'm surprised that a player of your caliber has endorsed that shot. If the shot was laying natural than that would be different but it isn't. Your last suggested option with banking the 1ball to the middle of the side rail is a much better choice.......good come back. I still like banking the 1ball back down to the bottom rail and leaving distance, that shot carries the right speed for both balls to be the best option if it's available.

Dr. Bill

how so? (not trying to be a wise ass, just curious why its a poor selection)

 

[wincardona]

how so? (not trying to be a wise ass, just curious why its a poor selection)

Miller, I explained in my post the answer you're looking for..it's not natural. If the shot was a natural shot guaranteeing that you will end up... where you need to be to make the choice a viable option than it's "kinda"ok. Let me explain the problem with shots of this kind. Shots that carry a "need to perform demand" and don't carry a clear benefit, are not the type of shots to look for. Take this shot for an example. Lets say that you pocket the 1ball in the side and draw the cue ball to near the top rail by the pocket, you have then made a good shot that was some what problematic. However, you haven't gained anything by shooting the shot and figure to be in another "need to perform" situation when you come back to the table.

Now lets choose the option of banking the 1ball to the bottom rail and leaving distance with the shot. The cue ball figures to end up near the top rail center diamond and the 1ball figures to end up near the pocket...no more than 12" from the pocket near the bottom rail. From this position your opponent will be in a "need to perform"situation. That's the difference between the two shots.

I hope that I have educated you with shot choices of this kind.

Dr. Bill

 

[ulikastr8pool]

Miller, I explained in my post the answer you're looking for..it's not natural. If the shot was a natural shot guaranteeing that you will end up... where you need to be to make the choice a viable option than it's "kinda"ok. Let me explain the problem with shots of this kind. Shots that carry a "need to perform demand" and don't carry a clear benefit, are not the type of shots to look for. Take this shot for an example. Lets say that you pocket the 1ball in the side and draw the cue ball to near the top rail by the pocket, you have then made a good shot that was some what problematic. However, you haven't gained anything by shooting the shot and figure to be in another "need to perform" situation when you come back to the table.

Now lets choose the option of banking the 1ball to the bottom rail and leaving distance with the shot. The cue ball figures to end up near the top rail center diamond and the 1ball figures to end up near the pocket...no more than 12" from the pocket near the bottom rail. From this position your opponent will be in a "need to perform"situation. That's the difference between the two shots.

I hope that I have educated you with shot choices of this kind.

Dr. Bill

I like the way you explained this type of scenario. But, in this situation I agree with Hacker's 2nd option. No reason to one rail the 1ball here. This shot lies pretty close to the 'need to perform' type. You have to overcut the 1ball with a good deal of inside, controlling the speed of the cue ball and 1ball, and there's only a small chance of making the bank. If it ends up on the bottom short rail close to your hole, the incoming player has a pretty basic 2 rail bank to send the 1ball uptable to his side and now leave you distance. With each guy needing one and the case ball in a funny spot, I like playing the easiest safe and wait for a better opportunity.

 

[onepockethacker]

Miller, I explained in my post the answer you're looking for..it's not natural. If the shot was a natural shot guaranteeing that you will end up... where you need to be to make the choice a viable option than it's "kinda"ok. Let me explain the problem with shots of this kind. Shots that carry a "need to perform demand" and don't carry a clear benefit, are not the type of shots to look for. Take this shot for an example. Lets say that you pocket the 1ball in the side and draw the cue ball to near the top rail by the pocket, you have then made a good shot that was some what problematic. However, you haven't gained anything by shooting the shot and figure to be in another "need to perform" situation when you come back to the table.

Now lets choose the option of banking the 1ball to the bottom rail and leaving distance with the shot. The cue ball figures to end up near the top rail center diamond and the 1ball figures to end up near the pocket...no more than 12" from the pocket near the bottom rail. From this position your opponent will be in a "need to perform"situation. That's the difference between the two shots.

I hope that I have educated you with shot choices of this kind.

Dr. Bill

First off drawing the cue ball up table near the corner pocket is not that tough of shot and ONCE again Billy if you cant execute it you are not going to beat these guys anyway. 2nd off one railing the 1 ball is a sucker shot you are going to make that once out of 10 maybe.. If your speed and hit are off at all on the one railer you might very well give up a cross corner bank( WHICH HAPPENS ALL THE TIME) If you hit it good you leave an easy 2 rail return safe for your opponent and you are back on the defensive. All you are going to do with the one railer unless you hit it perfectly is LOSE!! Your speed on the one railer has to be perfect or it inst worth shit. My shot on the other hand has way more margin of error to be effective. All that being said I like my second choice better because it leaves no offensive shot possibilities... Billy you really shock me with using the "have to perform" rationale in your argument.. Banking the 1 ball well requires way more performance than my shot... Perhaps thats why you give up all those cross corner banks that cost you games.. :sorry

 

[onepockethacker]

i agree with you about the one rail bank to the bottom rail where both balls will have the proper speed. Not only is that shot somewhat offensive but it also is one of best defensive shots if hit fairly decent.
The worse that could happen is if you miss hit it to the point of the corner pocket and the ball leaks out to the middle of the table (very unlikely), or you might pocket the ball and it goes on the spot.

or you leave an easy cross corner bank!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[onepockethacker]

I like the way you explained this type of scenario. But, in this situation I agree with Hacker's 2nd option. No reason to one rail the 1ball here. This shot lies pretty close to the 'need to perform' type. You have to overcut the 1ball with a good deal of inside, controlling the speed of the cue ball and 1ball, and there's only a small chance of making the bank. If it ends up on the bottom short rail close to your hole, the incoming player has a pretty basic 2 rail bank to send the 1ball uptable to his side and now leave you distance. With each guy needing one and the case ball in a funny spot, I like playing the easiest safe and wait for a better opportunity.

You are exactly right.. you will win way more games playing that shot than the 1 railer on the 1 ball.... I guess everyone on here thanks they are BUGS or Eddie Taylor in their prime... PLEASEEEEE!!!

 

[John Brumback]

What did he do? That one ball straightback bank is frought with peril,er somtin like that.I don't see a 3 railer either.Looks like the point might be in the way for that shot,so what did he do? JB

 

[onepockethacker]

What did he do? That one ball straightback bank is frought with peril,er somtin like that.I don't see a 3 railer either.Looks like the point might be in the way for that shot,so what did he do? JB

Well if the best banker in the world thinks the 1 railer is a shit shot thats good enough for me... Hey John... Some of these guys think that 1 railer is a hanger... you might have some even bank pool action

 

[wincardona]

Ulika and OPH, my critique of the safety off the 1ball by drawing the cue ball to the top right corner still stands...it's a losing shot. Never shoot a "need to perform" shot that doesn't carry a benefit when there are clearly better options available.:frus

As far as banking the 1ball as an option I clearly stated in post #23 ...if the angle allows you too. I said that it looks to me that the speed for both the cue ball and the object ball are laying good, followed by a description on where I believed both balls should end up. Cue ball near the top rail...center diamond, object ball near the bottom rail no more than 12" from the pocket. If you're able to execute the shot the way I described it's by far the best option. :sorry

For those who spend too much time in the sun (brain damage) I suggest you get your head out of your ...oops...sun.

Dr. Bill

 

[wincardona]

First off drawing the cue ball up table near the corner pocket is not that tough of shot and ONCE again Billy if you cant execute it you are not going to beat these guys anyway. 2nd off one railing the 1 ball is a sucker shot you are going to make that once out of 10 maybe.. If your speed and hit are off at all on the one railer you might very well give up a cross corner bank( WHICH HAPPENS ALL THE TIME) If you hit it good you leave an easy 2 rail return safe for your opponent and you are back on the defensive. All you are going to do with the one railer unless you hit it perfectly is LOSE!! Your speed on the one railer has to be perfect or it inst worth shit. My shot on the other hand has way more margin of error to be effective. All that being said I like my second choice better because it leaves no offensive shot possibilities... Billy you really shock me with using the "have to perform" rationale in your argument.. Banking the 1 ball well requires way more performance than my shot... Perhaps thats why you give up all those cross corner banks that cost you games.. :sorry

It's statements like the bolded one above that really get my attention. Of course we all should shoot shots that are unnecessary and wrong just to see if we have the ability to do it. :lol:lol

Dr. Bill

 

[John Brumback]

I think I would baby kick the one down to the end rail and then over to the right hand side rail and try to leave the cball near where the one was.What's wrong with that?

That one ball bank scares me to death. Man the speed to get both those balls right would be very hard to do,imo. It could skid or over cut or it could hit the point of the side and go over to his hole.Or like Tom said you could dog stroke it a little and shoot it right in the hole.Your speed could be off a little and you could sell out an easy cross corner.I've been looking at that bank since it's been up here:lol Just giving my thoughts but I am in the wrong forum too JB

 

[wincardona]

I think I would baby kick the one down to the end rail and then over to the right hand side rail and try to leave the cball near where the one was.What's wrong with that?

That one ball bank scares me to death. Man the speed to get both those balls right would be very hard to do,imo. It could skid or over cut or it could hit the point of the side and go over to his hole.Or like Tom said you could dog stroke it a little and shoot it right in the hole.Your speed could be off a little and you could sell out an easy cross corner.I've been looking at that bank since it's been up here:lol Just giving my thoughts but I am in the wrong forum too JB

Your shot can leave a ..three in the corner ..for your opponent.

I agree with your reasons why you shouldn't shoot the 1ball bank if it's laying that difficult. I felt it was a difficult shot but if it's that difficult then I would just bank the 1ball softly to the top rail and to the center of the top side rail. From that position it's 50/50 between two equal players. In situations such as the one here the shooter should feel good walking away with a 50/50 chance of winning the game.

Dr. Bill

 

[John Brumback]

Your shot can leave a ..three in the corner ..for your opponent.

I agree with your reasons why you shouldn't shoot the 1ball bank if it's laying that difficult. I felt it was a difficult shot but if it's that difficult then I would just bank the 1ball softly to the top rail and to the center of the top side rail. From that position it's 50/50 between two equal players. In situations such as the one here the shooter should feel good walking away with a 50/50 chance of winning the game.

Dr. Bill

Yes I agree with that reasoning,alot. JB

 

[John Brumback]

Your shot can leave a ..three in the corner ..for your opponent.

I agree with your reasons why you shouldn't shoot the 1ball bank if it's laying that difficult. I felt it was a difficult shot but if it's that difficult then I would just bank the 1ball softly to the top rail and to the center of the top side rail. From that position it's 50/50 between two equal players. In situations such as the one here the shooter should feel good walking away with a 50/50 chance of winning the game.

Dr. Bill

Of course I would I"m dumping myself:lol Scratch my shot,I forgot what pocket was next:sorry, I better just stick the bank shots:frus JB

 

[wincardona]

Yes I agree with that reasoning,alot. JB

Why do you insist on being difficult???

Dr. Bill

 

[John Brumback]

Why

Why

Why do you insist on being difficult???

Dr. Bill

Huh???????? JB

 

[wincardona]

I think I would baby kick the one down to the end rail and then over to the right hand side rail and try to leave the cball near where the one was.What's wrong with that?

That one ball bank scares me to death. Man the speed to get both those balls right would be very hard to do,imo. It could skid or over cut or it could hit the point of the side and go over to his hole.Or like Tom said you could dog stroke it a little and shoot it right in the hole.Your speed could be off a little and you could sell out an easy cross corner.I've been looking at that bank since it's been up here:lol Just giving my thoughts but I am in the wrong forum too JB

John the big problem with this bank is that the angle is too steep. If the angle was flatter then you can comfortably sight the ball better and play much better speed and direction with both balls. I set this bank up and I agree with your assessment of the shot, plus with the angle the way it is, scratching two rails in the corner is also a concern. A flatter angle sends the cue ball much longer and the hit becomes much easier. Agree? When I first looked at the bank I thought that it played more comfortable than it does. Really have to be at the table to judge a lot of these shots to give an accurate evaluation of them. Good call on this bank.