Gray/svb 2012 dcc finals

vapros

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Thanks, Freddie, for a quick and helpful response. Isn't it also true that you can adjust the 30 degree angle by where you hit the 1 ball, and if so, wouldn't that be an easier adjustment for most of us than using english or draw? Trying to set up the same shot as the one in the picture, when I made the carom shot the spotted ball went into the other pocket. Coincidence, no doubt, only a concern in this one circumstance.
 

fred bentivegna

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Thanks, Freddie, for a quick and helpful response. Isn't it also true that you can adjust the 30 degree angle by where you hit the 1 ball, and if so, wouldn't that be an easier adjustment for most of us than using english or draw? Trying to set up the same shot as the one in the picture, when I made the carom shot the spotted ball went into the other pocket. Coincidence, no doubt, only a concern in this one circumstance.
You have made another great point. Even I didnt think of that. I will keep that in mind. The 30 degree angle is much more predictable than draw or english.

Beard
 

Skin

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I would need an overhead view to really determine the carom necessities. However, you brought up an important point, the 30 degree carom angle of a rolling cue ball. That angle was certified by Dr Dave and his scientific studies.
As far as determining the 30 degree path, I would need to be at a table to show you that. If the carom laid at a 30 degree angle that would be the easiest carom.

Whatever the carom angle you can adjust for it by using, draw, follow, center, left or right english, and varying speeds. You need to have spent time working on those caroms as I have to get the right feel of confidence.

To me a carom is dog-proof, so to me the carom if anywhere near on, is easier for me.

To those who are not sure of billiard caroms, then I would suggest that they go ahead and just cut the ball in. (i am going to assume that Shane would fall into the above category.)

Beard
I don't know. Call me an APA 2 if you like, but I would not in a million years play a carom off the 1 into the 7 here even if I were sure the 7 would go. The cb leave off that shot, no matter the speed, would stink like a wet dog.

Either cut the 7 or kick the 14 away, whichever agrees with your grok at that moment.

Skin
 

fred bentivegna

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I don't know. Call me an APA 2 if you like, but I would not in a million years play a carom off the 1 into the 7 here even if I were sure the 7 would go. The cb leave off that shot, no matter the speed, would stink like a wet dog.

Either cut the 7 or kick the 14 away, whichever agrees with your grok at that moment.

Skin
Since you probably havent studied those kind of shots for 50 yrs like I have, under the tutulege of guys like Joe Procita, Danny D, Gene Skinner, Babyface, Doc Hazard, Marcel Camp, etc.,etc., I wouldnt expect you to shoot the carom either.

What I said, is that I, would prefer to shoot the carom, because I am gonna make it. Where the cue ball goes aint gonna matter to my opponent because it's still gonna be my shot.

Beard
 

Cowboy Dennis

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However, I wouldnta just cut it in. I would have blasted it in off of a carom off of the 1. Two reasons: 1, since I am an expert on caroms, to me the carom is much easier than the cut. 2. I can use the 1 ball to maybe scatter the cluster around my oppo's pocket.

Beard
I cannot believe the Duck hasn't responded to this, maybe he's not feeling well:confused::p.

RBL
 

androd

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Freddie what can you tell us about how to assess the billiard situation with the 1 and the 7, and deciding when to shoot it, and how to hit it with a rolling cue ball? Shooting it on my table I made it several times, but I never figured out how to pick the right time. It looks to me like there is about a ball-and-a-half space between the balls in this picture. Was the billiard an easier shot than shooting the 7 straight in, or did he hit the 1 to break the cluster?

Is it as simple as seeing the the 30 degree billiard line taken by the cue ball? Any info appreciated.
Bill, the formula, if the balls are fairly close is below. When farther away you have to learn how to hit the CB so it holds it's line. After you do, you can tweak all carom's with the hit or a little English. :)
Rod.
 

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SJDinPHX

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Thanks, Freddie, for a quick and helpful response. Isn't it also true that you can adjust the 30 degree angle by where you hit the 1 ball, and if so, wouldn't that be an easier adjustment for most of us than using english or draw? Trying to set up the same shot as the one in the picture, when I made the carom shot the spotted ball went into the other pocket. Coincidence, no doubt, only a concern in this one circumstance.
Yes V-man, as any EXPERT would (or should) tell you, in this type of carom, the speed of the cue ball, will determine how thick, or thin you hit the 1st object ball...This is true of all caroms. The amount of english you use, whatever kind, will vary greatly, depending on how hard (or easy) you hit the shot. Only by experimentation, or million ball hitting, will the average player become proficient, and comfortable with caroms.

Mr. Carom <---Likes the more challenging ones, like a foot or two apart..:D

PS..Beardo is right about one thing though.. That particular carom, looks like a gimme ;)
 
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vapros

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Androd, I see your point. I think I will stand by and see if anyone else comments on your diagram. Thanks -
 

lll

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Yes V-man, as any EXPERT would (or should) tell you, in this type of carom, the speed of the cue ball, will determine how thick, or thin you hit the 1st object ball...This is true of all caroms. The amount of english you use, whatever kind, will vary greatly, depending on how hard (or easy) you hit the shot. Only by experimentation, or million ball hitting, will the average player become proficient, and comfortable with caroms.

Mr. Carom

Beardo is right about one thing though.. That particular looks like a gimme ;)
to all members and lurkers
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wincardona

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Originally Posted by One Pocket Ghost
That choice is no good, because even by pocketing the 7 softly and not leaving a good 2 rail angle on the 7, there's a strong return shot that no one spotted, that you and any of the others who chose that option would be leaving ----> You'd be leaving the carom off of the inside of the 1 ball, cueball caroming into the inside of the 7ball, 1 ball going cross corner into the cluster, possibly going off of the cluster and into the pocket - that would cost you a tie game, or worse...the angle looks to be laying perfect for that carom-bank shot, with the cueball being left anywhere in that bottom left area.

- Ghost
Quote:
Originally Posted by fred bentivegna

However, I wouldnta just cut it in. I would have blasted it in off of a carom off of the 1 as I believe the Ghost suggested. Two reasons: 1, since I am an expert on caroms, to me the carom is much easier than the cut. 2. I can use the 1 ball to maybe scatter the cluster around my oppo's pocket.

Beard



Dennis, all caroms should be decided by the distance the balls are within one another, and the angle going into the lead ball, plus obviously the position of both balls in terms of difference in height. Referring to the Ghost's carom, shooting from the jaws of the corner pocket the angle going into the lead ball is not conducive to get the results needed. If the cue ball was positioned near the 1st. diamond on the foot rail then his option would be a viable one. With the cue ball positioned near the first diamond you would have the ability to hit the 5 ball on the right side of the ball which would then bank the 5 ball toward your pocket and carom the 7 ball toward the cluster, or possibly into the pocket. Shooting from the jaws of the corner pocket you cannot hit the 5 ball where it needs to be hit for the carom to be an option. Another problem with the carom from that position is controlling the 5 ball.

Dr. Bill
 

SJDinPHX

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to all members and lurkers
please give 60 seconds of silence to honor
the duck for acknowledging the beard for being right
and to the beard for being right
:)
Larry, Larry, Larry.... You missed my obvious chiding of the Beard (aka EXPERT) for 'omitting' the most important factor, in MOST caroms...SPEED of the cue ball...:rolleyes:

Mr. Carom
 

wincardona

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Take it easy now, getting all riled up isn't good for your blood pressure...:D...

...and I'm waiting as fast as I can for you to come to Chicago.

- Gh:)st
That's what you said last year, and when I went to Chicago I wanted to give you a private lesson, but you were no where to be found. The next time i'm in Chicago at least you can do is respond to my text messages.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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Dr Bill is starting to approach the prodigiousness of the 1pktHacker and maybe even, god forbid, the all-time multiple-posts holder, Eddie Robin. What did he post up, 5 in a row?

I did re-review the difficulty of the 7 ball here and the 8 ball in the Gentile thread, and I take back what I said that the 7 ball is 10 to 15% harder. After looking at both diagrams side by side on 2 different computers I realized that the cue ball is about 6 inches closer to the 7 ball than the cue ball is to the 8 ball. However, the cut angle is a little more severe on the 7.

Even so, my shot selections remain the same. Still shoot the 8 and still carom off the 1 to make the 7.

Dr Bill kinda ducked commenting on the carom shot. Whats up wit dat?

Beard
Fred, you're digging a hole even you can't get out of. The cue ball postion in the Shane thread is only 6" closer to the ball then it is in the Gentile thread, really. Try 18" closer.

Secondly, shooting caroms aren't as easy as you make them out to believe they are. If so why don't we see top players shoot them more often? Better yet, why didn't Shane shoot the carom? Maybe he didn't know the shot, or maybe he doesn't have the skills to execute the shot, or maybe, just maybe he didn't consider it an option. There are many variables to consider when shooting caroms, distance of the hit on the first ball is one of about a dozen or more considerations one should be aware of before shooting a carom. How about speed of the shot, and english, or a high or low ball, and precision of hit, should I continue?

In both the Gentile thread and the Gray thread Shane shot the correct shots, and to second guess him is pretty tough to do when you consider that he won the DCC one pocket division back to back, and also the US. Open one pocket championships. So who are we supposed to believe, you from your computer board, or a guy who wins major one pocket tournaments? Like I have tried a countless number of times to explain the moving part of one pocket isn't a mystery anymore, there are 100's if not 1,000's of players that understand how to move efficiently, it all comes down to execution and gambling skills.

Now I have answered your question about your carom option, sorry if you don't agree with my opinion.

By the way I feel that you have as much knowledge as anyone playing certain games, but knowledge is just part of the puzzle, in case you haven't figured it out yet.


Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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I don't know. Call me an APA 2 if you like, but I would not in a million years play a carom off the 1 into the 7 here even if I were sure the 7 would go. The cb leave off that shot, no matter the speed, would stink like a wet dog.

Either cut the 7 or kick the 14 away, whichever agrees with your grok at that moment.

Skin
I agree, and I doubt if anyone on this site would shoot the carom from the position discussed. Maybe one.

Dr. Bill
 

One Pocket Ghost

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when I went to Chicago you were no where to be found. The next time i'm in Chicago at least you can do is respond to my text messages.

Dr. Bill


As I already told you - I never got any text messages from you...I didn't give you my number, you got a number from Stevie I guess, cuz he said he texted me too - but I never got his text either - he must not have my right number...

And on the contrary, I could easily have been found if you really wanted to contact me - I get every phone call/message from Freddy, Steve Booth, John from Red Shoes, and everybody else that calls me..:cool:...

And I always return calls, cuz that's how I was raised - with proper manners...:heh

- Ghost

PS, I'm pm'ing you my phone numbers again right now in large type to make sure you have them...and please call, don't text - I'm not a texter.
 
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wincardona

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As I already told you - I never got any text messages from you...I didn't give you my number, you got a number from Stevie I guess, cuz he said he texted me too - but I never got his text either - he must not have my right number...

And on the contrary, I could easily have been found if you really wanted to contact me - I get every phone call/message from Freddy, Steve Booth, John from Red Shoes, and everybody else that calls me..:cool:...

And I always return calls, cuz that's how I was raised - with proper manners...:heh

- Ghost

PS, I'm pm'ing you my phone numbers again right now in large type to make sure you have them...and please call, don't text - I'm not a texter.
By the way the number you pm me is the only number I have for you on my cell phone, which I text you with several times, strange.

Dr. Bill
 

One Pocket Ghost

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By the way the number you pm me is the only number I have for you on my cell phone, which I text you with several times, strange.

Dr. Bill

I don't text, never have sent a text in my life, and no one text's me - so maybe they don't show up on my cell phone...:confused:
 

fred bentivegna

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Bill, the formula, if the balls are fairly close is below. When farther away you have to learn how to hit the CB so it holds it's line. After you do, you can tweak all carom's with the hit or a little English. :)
Rod.
Thank you, Rod. That diagram should be very helpful to those who want to learn those shots.

Beard
 
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