Gray/svb 2012 dcc finals

wincardona

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No the 7 isn't too high - and you know better than that..:rolleyes:..as long as you can carom inside of the two balls (which obviously you can) you can easily adjust the shot/bank angle as needed = if the 7 is a little high, then obviously you just hit the 5 thinner - and/or load up the cueball with left english...

You can just admit that you slept this carom-bank return shot..:eek:..it's ok, trust me, you'll be a better person for it...:D

- Ghost
Sorry but I don't sleep obvious shots like the one you're talking about. when we play you'll find that out. Secondly, even if your shot was somewhat on, the position the cue ball will be left in will make controlling the 5 ball too tough to consider your shot. The cue ball will be left in the corner pocket, set it up and see for youraself the results you get. There's quite a bit you need to learn about one pocket, and also my game. Just try to be available the next time i'm in Chicago for a special treat.

Dr. Billr
 
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wincardona

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Amazing isnt it? Nobody wanted Shane to shoot the 8 ball in that other thread when he was behind 5-0, and almost everybody wants him to shoot the 7 here when he is AHEAD 5-0! Meanwhile, the 7 ball here is an even more extreme cut than the 8 that he wouldnt shoot at. The 7 here is about 10-15% harder than the 8 in the other layout.

Now to confuse matters even further, I happen to think that he was correct in shooting the 7! The situation is dire enough that since a good option to clean up or prevent getting into worse trouble isnt available, sometimes you gotta take the shot.
However, I wouldnta just cut it in. I would have blasted it in off of a carom off of the 1 as I believe the Ghost suggested. Two reasons: 1, since I am an expert on caroms, to me the carom is much easier than the cut. 2. I can use the 1 ball to maybe scatter the cluster around my oppo's pocket.

Beard
Well here we go again Fred, you're wrong on both counts. One, the 7 ball shot was easier than the 8 ball shot for sure, and secondly the position of the balls suggested that the cut on the 7 ball was a very viable option, as I alluded to in an earlier post, as opposed to the position of the balls with the 8 ball shot. Seems like you guy's from Chicago need a little brushing up with your one pocket skills, and opinions.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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So much for my "he can't get too many from here" :frus

Dr. Bill, disregard my previous post :D Nice call. I still would not shoot there but that is one reason why i'm sitting at home tonight.
Thank you, I felt good about Shane shooting the 7 ball, he was close enough to the ball to pocket it at least 75% of the time imo. Also like I mentioned, a lot of good things can happen for the shooter with the option Shane chose. There's a saying that is very enlightning,your best defense is a great offense, in some situations, this being one of them.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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i posted this layout because i thought in a way it tied into the discussion in the gentile /shane thread
where shane was behind and usually thats a situation to be alittle more aggressive but shane didnt take the shot
this time he took the shot when ahead
the shot on the 8 (against gentile)was alittle tougher than the shot on the 7 in this thread
but both times shane didnt play the score
was it the "wrong " shot both times......:rolleyes:
just askin:D
Larry, on the contrary Shane played the score with both shots, but the tough part of the decision making is when it's right to gamble, or not gamble. That's really where the money is won and lost playing all games where decisions are at it's highest value.

Dr. Bill
 
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wincardona

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Larry, on the contrary Shane played the score with both shots, but the tough part of the decision making is when it's right to gamble, or not gamble. That's really where the money is won and lost playing all games where decisions are at it's highest value.

Dr. Bill

Moving playing one pocket today takes a back seat in the decision making process when there's a decision on when the right time to move or shoot is the main concern. Making good gambling decisions is more important than any other part of playing games of parity. Like I mentioned before, moving is overated in todays one pocket as opposed to years ago, because of the parity in the players playing it. Decisions are crucial in understanding one's capabilities, in terms of percentages. The correct move playing one pocket differs from one player to the next, based on the skills of the players.

It's very complex, and not black and white as some think, there are many variables that must be considered, but the most important part of the recipe is knowing one's capabilities.

Dr. Bill
 

One Pocket Ghost

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Sorry but I don't sleep obvious shots like the one you're talking about. when we play you'll find that out. Secondly, even if your shot was somewhat on, the position the cue ball will be left in will make controlling the 5 ball too tough to consider your shot. The cue ball will be left in the corner pocket, set it up and see for youraself the results you get. There's quite a bit you need to learn about one pocket, and also my game. Just try to be available the next time i'm in Chicago for a special treat.

Dr. Billr

Take it easy now, getting all riled up isn't good for your blood pressure...:D...

...and I'm waiting as fast as I can for you to come to Chicago.

- Gh:)st
 

One Pocket Ghost

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Freddy,

This layout is a few shots before the one Larry posted in post #1 but I think this is the shot the Ghost is referring to. If you rolled the 14 in and left the cueball near the corner this shot may just be available

Dennis


View attachment 6125

That's the shot Dennis...although I would be trying to carom-bank the 7 off of the 9 or 13 so as to open up the balls, rather than having it carom-bank straight in.

- Ghost
 

One Pocket Ghost

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ghost good eye
joel gray hit a similar shot in the previous game and followed the cue ball to upper right end rail off the side rail.
the commentators didnt see it as a possibility either
nice shot to have in your "minds eye" book of shots ,moves and strategies :D

Thanks Larry.

- Ghost
 

lll

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Moving playing one pocket today takes a back seat in the decision making process when there's a decision on when the right time to move or shoot is the main concern. Making good gambling decisions is more important than any other part of playing games of parity. Like I mentioned before, moving is overated in todays one pocket as opposed to years ago, because of the parity in the players playing it. Decisions are crucial in understanding one's capabilities, in terms of percentages. The correct move playing one pocket differs from one player to the next, based on the skills of the players.

It's very complex, and not black and white as some think, there are many variables that must be considered, but the most important part of the recipe is knowing one's capabilities.

Dr. Bill
i guess since nowadays the players seem to be more offensively minded and skilled they are looking for the opportunity to pounce on the out like a tiger stalikng its prey
they will lie in wait (ie move) until they see the chance and then POW
its over or the game is turned around
regardless of the score
knowing when to pounce is the key....;)
i think thats what you are saying Dr.Bill
:)
 

Skin

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i guess since nowadays the players seem to be more offensively minded and skilled they are looking for the opportunity to pounce on the out like a tiger stalikng its prey
they will lie in wait (ie move) until they see the chance and then POW
its over or the game is turned around
regardless of the scoreknowing when to pounce is the key....;)
i think thats what you are saying Dr.Bill
:)
Yeah, I think that mindlessly playing the score (like a lion when behind and a lamb when ahead) is overrated, Larry. The score is important but not totally important...until someone sinks his game ball, that is. ;)

This above all: to thine own self be true.

Bard Skin
 
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fred bentivegna

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Dr Bill is starting to approach the prodigiousness of the 1pktHacker and maybe even, god forbid, the all-time multiple-posts holder, Eddie Robin. What did he post up, 5 in a row?

I did re-review the difficulty of the 7 ball here and the 8 ball in the Gentile thread, and I take back what I said that the 7 ball is 10 to 15% harder. After looking at both diagrams side by side on 2 different computers I realized that the cue ball is about 6 inches closer to the 7 ball than the cue ball is to the 8 ball. However, the cut angle is a little more severe on the 7.

Even so, my shot selections remain the same. Still shoot the 8 and still carom off the 1 to make the 7.

Dr Bill kinda ducked commenting on the carom shot. Whats up wit dat?

Beard
 

NH Steve

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sidepocketkid gets the cookie
well shane did shoot the 7 with speed .....made it ....and broke up the cluster
and ran out:eek:
View attachment 6121

View attachment 6123
To me this illustrates a player making a shot choice that follows the guideline "shoot to your strength". For many of us, that shot on the 7 would have been too low a percentage choice, given we have a 5-0 lead in the ball count. For Shane, it's probably a very high percentage shot. We look at it as a great risk that does not compute given our score advantage, he looks at it as a high percentage opportunity to wrap up the game. In my opinion, he is seeing (and shooting) the right shot for him. That doesn't mean it is right for us in this situation, although if the score was reversed, it well might be.
 

fred bentivegna

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Larry, on the contrary Shane played the score with both shots, but the tough part of the decision making is when it's right to gamble, or not gamble. That's really where the money is won and lost playing all games where decisions are at it's highest value.

Dr. Bill
Down 5-0 Shane played the score by bunt rolling a ball? To me that was probably, if I was his opponent, the only shot I would want him to shoot. ie., leave me on top of a ball so that I can execute something very easily.
My mind set at that point would be to minimize losses and try not so much to give up nothing, but instead to arrange the position so that Shane (A.) cant run 8 and out, (B) my next most important objective, since Shane's postion is threatening, would be to try and arrange the position so that the worst I can end up with is a tie game, and go from there. (C) third most important objective is to possibly arrange the position so that Shane could only get 1,2, or maybe three, before the immediate danger was over. To hold out hope that you would escape the situation completely unscathed is unrealistic.

Think of it like a chess game where you sacrifice pieces to hold your position, but not so many that it doesnt allow you to still win the game.

In other words, you must always be prepared to shed some blood.

Beard
 

vapros

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Freddie what can you tell us about how to assess the billiard situation with the 1 and the 7, and deciding when to shoot it, and how to hit it with a rolling cue ball? Shooting it on my table I made it several times, but I never figured out how to pick the right time. It looks to me like there is about a ball-and-a-half space between the balls in this picture. Was the billiard an easier shot than shooting the 7 straight in, or did he hit the 1 to break the cluster?

Is it as simple as seeing the the 30 degree billiard line taken by the cue ball? Any info appreciated.
 

lll

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Freddie what can you tell us about how to assess the billiard situation with the 1 and the 7, and deciding when to shoot it, and how to hit it with a rolling cue ball? Shooting it on my table I made it several times, but I never figured out how to pick the right time. It looks to me like there is about a ball-and-a-half space between the balls in this picture. Was the billiard an easier shot than shooting the 7 straight in, or did he hit the 1 to break the cluster?Is it as simple as seeing the the 30 degree billiard line taken by the cue ball? Any info appreciated.
vapros you can see from the result of the shot the one ball was not moved
gg1.jpg
 

Island Drive

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Dr Bill is starting to approach the prodigiousness of the 1pktHacker and maybe even, god forbid, the all-time multiple-posts holder, Eddie Robin. What did he post up, 5 in a row?

I did re-review the difficulty of the 7 ball here and the 8 ball in the Gentile thread, and I take back what I said that the 7 ball is 10 to 15% harder. After looking at both diagrams side by side on 2 different computers I realized that the cue ball is about 6 inches closer to the 7 ball than the cue ball is to the 8 ball. However, the cut angle is a little more severe on the 7.

Even so, my shot selections remain the same. Still shoot the 8 and still carom off the 1 to make the 7.

Dr Bill kinda ducked commenting on the carom shot. Whats up wit dat?

Beard
Duplicate post...................
 
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Island Drive

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Dr Bill is starting to approach the prodigiousness of the 1pktHacker and maybe even, god forbid, the all-time multiple-posts holder, Eddie Robin. What did he post up, 5 in a row?

I did re-review the difficulty of the 7 ball here and the 8 ball in the Gentile thread, and I take back what I said that the 7 ball is 10 to 15% harder. After looking at both diagrams side by side on 2 different computers I realized that the cue ball is about 6 inches closer to the 7 ball than the cue ball is to the 8 ball. However, the cut angle is a little more severe on the 7.

Even so, my shot selections remain the same. Still shoot the 8 and still carom off the 1 to make the 7.

Dr Bill kinda ducked commenting on the carom shot. Whats up wit dat?

Beard
Come on Fred, you know as well as anyone, ya never miss from the rail.:frus
 

vapros

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My bad, Larry, but I would still like my questions answered. I believe the billiard was under discussion at one point.
 

fred bentivegna

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Freddie what can you tell us about how to assess the billiard situation with the 1 and the 7, and deciding when to shoot it, and how to hit it with a rolling cue ball? Shooting it on my table I made it several times, but I never figured out how to pick the right time. It looks to me like there is about a ball-and-a-half space between the balls in this picture. Was the billiard an easier shot than shooting the 7 straight in, or did he hit the 1 to break the cluster?

Is it as simple as seeing the the 30 degree billiard line taken by the cue ball? Any info appreciated.
I would need an overhead view to really determine the carom necessities. However, you brought up an important point, the 30 degree carom angle of a rolling cue ball. That angle was certified by Dr Dave and his scientific studies.
As far as determining the 30 degree path, I would need to be at a table to show you that. If the carom laid at a 30 degree angle that would be the easiest carom.

Whatever the carom angle you can adjust for it by using, draw, follow, center, left or right english, and varying speeds. You need to have spent time working on those caroms as I have to get the right feel of confidence.

To me a carom is dog-proof, so to me the carom if anywhere near on, is easier for me.

To those who are not sure of billiard caroms, then I would suggest that they go ahead and just cut the ball in. (i am going to assume that Shane would fall into the above category.)

Beard
 

lll

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My bad, Larry, but I would still like my questions answered. I believe the billiard was under discussion at one point.
bill
i only answered the part i could
i knew freddy would answer the rest
:)
 
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