Gray/svb 2012 dcc finals

andyk

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My first shot would probably be to go to the side rail and kick the 14 ball out, but it's hard to tell if he has room for that shot. If I couldn't do that, I would just go for the cut on the seven and try to manufacture another shot by going into the fourteen or the cluster.
 

One Pocket Ghost

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If i'm shooting I either cut the 7 ball in and take my chances or pocket the 14 ball with a very soft roll speed. If I shoot the 14 ball I would make sure I don't leave the two rail shot on the 7 ball as a return shot.

Dr. Bill

That choice is no good, because even by pocketing the 7 softly and not leaving a good 2 rail angle on the 7, there's a strong return shot that no one spotted, that you and any of the others who chose that option would be leaving ----> You'd be leaving the carom off of the inside of the 5ball, cueball caroming into the inside of the 7ball, 7ball going cross corner into the cluster, possibly going off of the cluster and into the pocket - that would cost you a tie game, or worse...the angle looks to be laying perfect for that carom-bank shot, with the cueball being left anywhere in that bottom left area.

- Ghost
 

wincardona

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That choice is no good, because even by pocketing the 7 softly and not leaving a good 2 rail angle on the 7, there's a strong return shot that no one spotted, that you and any of the others who chose that option would be leaving ----> You'd be leaving the carom off of the inside of the 5ball, cueball caroming into the inside of the 7ball, 7ball going cross corner into the cluster, possibly going off of the cluster and into the pocket - that would cost you a tie game, or worse...the angle looks to be laying perfect for that carom-bank shot, with the cueball being left anywhere in that bottom left area.

- Ghost
Ghost, in regard to the carom off the 5 to the 7 ball, to me the 7 ball sits too high for that to be a viable option, if it were I would certainly shoot the 7 ball as my option. If I chose to shoot the 7 ball I wouldn't be rolling it or hitting it with a soft speed I would be hitting it hard enough to increase my accuracy along with moving balls from Gray's side of the table.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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Ghost, in regard to the carom off the 5 to the 7 ball, to me the 7 ball sits too high for that to be a viable option, if it were I would certainly shoot the 7 ball as my option. If I chose to shoot the 7 ball I wouldn't be rolling it or hitting it with a soft speed I would be hitting it hard enough to increase my accuracy along with moving balls from Gray's side of the table.

Dr. Bill
By choosing the 14 ball as my option (providing the carom from the 5 to the 7 ball isn't on) I would hit it with the speed not to leave the two rail bank on the 7 ball sending it toward the 3 ball cluster in front of Gray's pocket.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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In either case i'm not breaking up the cluster in front of Gray's pocket, unless I shoot the 7 ball to win. For those who believe breaking up the cluster using some sort of a fram shot is the right shot should slow their game down a little and try to rethink certain situations. This being one of them. This conclusion comes from experience, I hate to say.:eek:

Dr. Bill
 

One Pocket Ghost

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Ghost, in regard to the carom off the 5 to the 7 ball, to me the 7 ball sits too high for that to be a viable option

Dr. Bill

No the 7 isn't too high - and you know better than that..:rolleyes:..as long as you can carom inside of the two balls (which obviously you can) you can easily adjust the shot/bank angle as needed = if the 7 is a little high, then obviously you just hit the 5 thinner - and/or load up the cueball with left english...

You can just admit that you slept this carom-bank return shot..:eek:..it's ok, trust me, you'll be a better person for it...:D

- Ghost
 

Scrzbill

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Well, I think everyone agrees the 14 needs to be moved. The big question is HOW....
Not everyone agrees the 14 has to go. Especially with a makeable cut shot starring straight at you. Cut the seven and end the game here. The cue looks like it could be spun behind the three balls and the way SVB has been shooting, he's out. Dinking the fourteen out is a wasted opportunity.:eek:
 

tylerdurden

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If i'm shooting I either cut the 7 ball in and take my chances or pocket the 14 ball with a very soft roll speed. I feel that if i'm a slight favorite to make the 7 ball I would shoot it. If I shoot the 14 ball I would make sure I don't leave the two rail shot on the 7 ball as a return shot. Keep in mind if you pocket the 7 ball you figure to run out, many good things can happen for you if you pocket the 7 ball. If I were Shane I would shoot the 7 ball.

Dr. Bill
I really disagree with shooting here, but i'm not shane. I see making it having a possibility of getting a shot (most likey a bank, ie possible miss), but missing it you will definitely give up a shot.

I dont hate giving up the 14 ball and staying down here as you suggest, I just dont feel he needs to give the ball here, but maybe it lays a little more awkward than what i see? He needs to move that 14 (I think we all agree there :)), I just dont see a need to give it to him with the table open like this.
 
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lll

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That choice is no good, because even by pocketing the 7 softly and not leaving a good 2 rail angle on the 7, there's a strong return shot that no one spotted, that you and any of the others who chose that option would be leaving ----> You'd be leaving the carom off of the inside of the 5ball, cueball caroming into the inside of the 7ball, 7ball going cross corner into the cluster, possibly going off of the cluster and into the pocket - that would cost you a tie game, or worse...the angle looks to be laying perfect for that carom-bank shot, with the cueball being left anywhere in that bottom left area.
- Ghost
ghost good eye :)
joel gray hit a similar shot in the previous game and followed the cue ball to upper right end rail off the side rail.
the commentators didnt see it as a possibility either
nice shot to have in your "minds eye" book of shots ,moves and strategies:D
 
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lll

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sidepocketkid gets the cookie
well shane did shoot the 7 with speed .....made it ....and broke up the cluster
and ran out:eek:
gg7.jpg

gg8.jpg
 
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lll

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good thing he didnt miss or jaw it
joel would have liked his chances from here...:D
gg8.jpg
 

lll

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well in this game the score was 5-0 shane
his shot worked but shouldnt he have been thinking to take balls out of play and play the score????
 

lll

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i posted this layout because i thought in a way it tied into the discussion in the gentile /shane thread
where shane was behind and usually thats a situation to be alittle more aggressive but shane didnt take the shot
this time he took the shot when ahead
the shot on the 8 (against gentile)was alittle tougher than the shot on the 7 in this thread
but both times shane didnt play the score
was it the "wrong " shot both times......:rolleyes:
just askin:D
 

jtompilot

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Kinda reminds me of the US Open about 15 years ago. Cliff Joiner had a back cut on a ball similar to 14.1 break shot. Cliff missed, busted open the rack. Marco Markez (sp) had an easy rack only to miss the easy shot.

Sometimes the great players do miss. I've played Shane several times and won a few games because he busted open the rack or clusters only to miss the shot. They pocket balls so well they shoot shots that I wouldnt unless I had to. Everyone plays differently and looks at the percentages differently.
 

tylerdurden

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i posted this layout because i thought in a way it tied into the discussion in the gentile /shane thread
where shane was behind and usually thats a situation to be alittle more aggressive but shane didnt take the shot
this time he took the shot when ahead
the shot on the 8 (against gentile)was alittle tougher than the shot on the 7 in this thread
but both times shane didnt play the score
was it the "wrong " shot both times......:rolleyes:
just askin:D
Everybody's game is different. Results dictate correctness.... at least that is what I believe.
 

fred bentivegna

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i posted this layout because i thought in a way it tied into the discussion in the gentile /shane thread
where shane was behind and usually thats a situation to be alittle more aggressive but shane didnt take the shot
this time he took the shot when ahead
the shot on the 8 (against gentile)was alittle tougher than the shot on the 7 in this thread
but both times shane didnt play the score
was it the "wrong " shot both times......:rolleyes:
just askin:D

Amazing isnt it? Nobody wanted Shane to shoot the 8 ball in that other thread when he was behind 5-0, and almost everybody wants him to shoot the 7 here when he is AHEAD 5-0! Meanwhile, the 7 ball here is an even more extreme cut than the 8 that he wouldnt shoot at. The 7 here is about 10-15% harder than the 8 in the other layout.

Now to confuse matters even further, I happen to think that he was correct in shooting the 7! The situation is dire enough that since a good option to clean up or prevent getting into worse trouble isnt available, sometimes you gotta take the shot.
However, I wouldnta just cut it in. I would have blasted it in off of a carom off of the 1 as I believe the Ghost suggested. Two reasons: 1, since I am an expert on caroms, to me the carom is much easier than the cut. 2. I can use the 1 ball to maybe scatter the cluster around my oppo's pocket.

Beard
 
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Cowboy Dennis

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That choice is no good, because even by pocketing the 7 softly and not leaving a good 2 rail angle on the 7, there's a strong return shot that no one spotted, that you and any of the others who chose that option would be leaving ----> You'd be leaving the carom off of the inside of the 5ball, cueball caroming into the inside of the 7ball, 7ball going cross corner into the cluster, possibly going off of the cluster and into the pocket - that would cost you a tie game, or worse...the angle looks to be laying perfect for that carom-bank shot, with the cueball being left anywhere in that bottom left area.

- Ghost
However, I wouldnta just cut it in. I would have blasted it in off of a carom off of the 5 as I believe the Ghost suggested. Two reasons: 1, since I am an expert on caroms, to me the carom is much easier than the cut. 2. I can use the 5 ball to maybe scatter the cluster around my oppo's pocket.

Beard
Freddy,

This layout is a few shots before the one Larry posted in post #1 but I think this is the shot the Ghost is referring to. If you rolled the 14 in and left the cueball near the corner this shot may just be available although I can't really see it in the other pics.

Gray cut the 1 ball in from here and then banked the 14 near his pocket. After the 1 ball spotted up for a foul it left SVB the layout Larry posted originally.

P.S. It's the 1 ball on the spot, not the 5 ball.

Dennis


Ghosty's shot.jpg
 

fred bentivegna

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Originally Posted by One Pocket Ghost
That choice is no good, because even by pocketing the 7 softly and not leaving a good 2 rail angle on the 7, there's a strong return shot that no one spotted, that you and any of the others who chose that option would be leaving ----> You'd be leaving the carom off of the inside of the 1 ball, cueball caroming into the inside of the 7ball, 1 ball going cross corner into the cluster, possibly going off of the cluster and into the pocket - that would cost you a tie game, or worse...the angle looks to be laying perfect for that carom-bank shot, with the cueball being left anywhere in that bottom left area.

- Ghost
Quote:
Originally Posted by fred bentivegna

However, I wouldnta just cut it in. I would have blasted it in off of a carom off of the 1 as I believe the Ghost suggested. Two reasons: 1, since I am an expert on caroms, to me the carom is much easier than the cut. 2. I can use the 1 ball to maybe scatter the cluster around my oppo's pocket.

Beard

Freddy,

This layout is a few shots before the one Larry posted in post #1 but I think this is the shot the Ghost is referring to. If you rolled the 14 in and left the cueball near the corner this shot may just be available although I can't really see it in the other pics.

Gray cut the 1 ball in from here and then banked the 14 near his pocket. After the 1 ball spotted up for a foul it left SVB the layout Larry posted originally.

P.S. It's the 1 ball on the spot, not the 5 ball.
Dennis

Dennis, I edited the Ghost's and my post to reflect the proper ball (the 1) rather than the 5. The Ghosts post makes more sense now.

Beard



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