Freddie, come out where ever you are

[wincardona]

I could be wrong but I haven't seen or heard from Freddie since one of our highly respected members chastised him. That's proof to me that even the good guys have bad days.:sorry Fred was accused of being a nit, and not being able to beat good players, which is so not true. I know Freddie as well as anyone, being around him for over 50 years and I can attest to the fact that he played often for $200 to $400 a game. I happen to know because I beat him quite a few times for over a thousand, and yes he's beaten me as well, playing bank pool but not one pocket. :heh There actually was a time when players, top players made a special trip to Chicago just to play him, and many of them left broke. Imo Freddie wasn't at the level of the great bank pool players like Bugs, Fargo, and Gary Spaeth he just wasn't gifted with the natural ability as they were, but he certainly got the most out of his ability as a bank pool player. Freddie has always been a student of the game, constantly practicing and experimenting with what made things happen the way they did by using different strokes, changing speeds, and ect. ect. ect. I would go as far as putting him in the top 5% of the games most knowledgeable players ever. Of course not as knowledgeable as the Ghost, or me. But you get my point, he was and will always be one of the most knowledgeable players around, but not a high money player, times have changed but if he had anything to say about it he'd be reaching deep into his pockets.

Just thought you'd like to know.

Dr. Bill

 

[ChrisBanks]

I could be wrong but I haven't seen or heard from Freddie since one of our highly respected members chastised him. That's proof to me that even the good guys have bad days.:sorry Fred was accused of being a nit, and not being able to beat good players, which is so not true. I know Freddie as well as anyone, being around him for over 50 years and I can attest to the fact that he played often for $200 to $400 a game. I happen to know because I beat him quite a few times for over a thousand, and yes he's beaten me as well, playing bank pool but not one pocket. :heh There actually was a time when players, top players made a special trip to Chicago just to play him, and many of them left broke. Imo Freddie wasn't at the level of the great bank pool players like Bugs, Fargo, and Gary Spaeth he just wasn't gifted with the natural ability as they were, but he certainly got the most out of his ability as a bank pool player. Freddie has always been a student of the game, constantly practicing and experimenting with what made things happen the way they did by using different strokes, changing speeds, and ect. ect. ect. I would go as far as putting him in the top 5% of the games most knowledgeable players ever. Of course not as knowledgeable as the Ghost, or me. But you get my point, he was and will always be one of the most knowledgeable players around, but not a high money player, times have changed but if he had anything to say about it he'd be reaching deep into his pockets.

Just thought you'd like to know.

Dr. Bill

On a side note, do you know if Artie plans to return to the forums anytime soon?

 

[Jimmy B]

On a side note, do you know if Artie plans to return to the forums anytime soon?

Bill was supposed to talk to Artie and get him to return. If you were around, AB did come back to say some memorable comments about Grady and then he left again so we may have lost him. Folks get upset sometimes and say things. I remember once there was tremendous action at this country western nightclub. I was going there every day. We were out back in a clearing where the parking lot ended and became red clay. An old man had just gotten out of prison and challenged me to a line throwing game. The trouble was that he made the distance between the lines much further than normal and was using an old peace dollar made of silver and I had to use an old copper clad quarter. I was so good that I thought I could overcome it. But he had been inside and had dedicated himself to this game and this distance. I got loser and another old man started kibitzing and laughing so I blamed everything on him and called him a no good c@cksucking son of a bitch.

So the old man wandered back in the club to get a beer I figured and I got as lucky as I ever have got in my life and get my money back. I hit the crack about five times in a row at that tremendous distance. Then I make a couple of normal throws but he dogs it. Anyway here comes that old man back waving a freakin gun around. It looked bigger than him with an eight inch barrel. I figured he had went to a Dirty Harry movie and got a piece just like old Clint E. I had to do some fast talking that day. It gave me a good excuse to quit old peace dollar, long distant, manslaugter man. Then he got mad too. I had to sweet talk both of them..

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

I could be wrong but I haven't seen or heard from Freddie since one of our highly respected members chastised him. That's proof to me that even the good guys have bad days.:sorry Fred was accused of being a nit, and not being able to beat good players, which is so not true. I know Freddie as well as anyone, being around him for over 50 years and I can attest to the fact that he played often for $200 to $400 a game. I happen to know because I beat him quite a few times for over a thousand, and yes he's beaten me as well, playing bank pool but not one pocket. :heh There actually was a time when players, top players made a special trip to Chicago just to play him, and many of them left broke. Imo Freddie wasn't at the level of the great bank pool players like Bugs, Fargo, and Gary Spaeth he just wasn't gifted with the natural ability as they were, but he certainly got the most out of his ability as a bank pool player. Freddie has always been a student of the game, constantly practicing and experimenting with what made things happen the way they did by using different strokes, changing speeds, and ect. ect. ect. I would go as far as putting him in the top 5% of the games most knowledgeable players ever. Of course not as knowledgeable as the Ghost, or me. But you get my point, he was and will always be one of the most knowledgeable players around, but not a high money player, times have changed but if he had anything to say about it he'd be reaching deep into his pockets.

Just thought you'd like to know.

Dr. Bill

The words that were written to Freddy & the things that were written about Freddy were vile, disgusting and should never have been written on a public forum, especially by someone who was probably drunk at the time. There were other ways available to make his displeasure known to Freddy.

Cowboy Dennis

 

[usblues]

Time...

Time...

....like money being our slave or master usually reminds us were all traveling at different speeds.Nice getting visits in your hometown from those willing to give more than they take.Nice to have money and moxie for a time wherever your at,cheers,James

 

[androd]

The words that were written to Freddy & the things that were written about Freddy were vile, disgusting and should never have been written on a public forum, especially by someone who was probably drunk at the time. There were other ways available to make his displeasure known to Freddy.

Cowboy Dennis

Yes, I'm sure he'd had some drinks. Freddy's bragging and boasting does get pretty old , but we're used to it, Remember everyone hasn't had so many doses as the ones of us who've been around a while. As far as the posts it just looks like he copied and pasted some of Hackers material.
I'm sure Freddy didn't really get his feelers hurt, he's got to much ego for that to bother him.
Rod.

 

[mr3cushion]

I could be wrong but I haven't seen or heard from Freddie since one of our highly respected members chastised him. That's proof to me that even the good guys have bad days.:sorry Fred was accused of being a nit, and not being able to beat good players, which is so not true. I know Freddie as well as anyone, being around him for over 50 years and I can attest to the fact that he played often for $200 to $400 a game. I happen to know because I beat him quite a few times for over a thousand, and yes he's beaten me as well, playing bank pool but not one pocket. :heh There actually was a time when players, top players made a special trip to Chicago just to play him, and many of them left broke. Imo Freddie wasn't at the level of the great bank pool players like Bugs, Fargo, and Gary Spaeth he just wasn't gifted with the natural ability as they were, but he certainly got the most out of his ability as a bank pool player. Freddie has always been a student of the game, constantly practicing and experimenting with what made things happen the way they did by using different strokes, changing speeds, and ect. ect. ect. I would go as far as putting him in the top 5% of the games most knowledgeable players ever. Of course not as knowledgeable as the Ghost, or me. But you get my point, he was and will always be one of the most knowledgeable players around, but not a high money player, times have changed but if he had anything to say about it he'd be reaching deep into his pockets.

Just thought you'd like to know.

Dr. Bill

Freddy called and asked me to post this reply to Billy's post.

"I want to thank Billy Incardona for his post, and the other people who have shown support to me on the forum in those few PMs that I did receive. However, I am still very upset and hurt, and do not see myself returning to this forum in the foreseeable future. Only a fool will argue against absurdity. Its kinda like having someone ask you to prove that you are not a homosexual. I really don't know how to reply, so I choose to not reply at all.

I am not fishing for support, it's a little late for that anyway. I am not looking for anything from anybody, I just thought that after Dr. Bill's post the forum deserved an explanation for my absence.

Going to Tunica, maybe I'll feel better after I get to be around some of my old friends.

Beard"

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
http://mr3cushion.com

 

[John Brumback]

Yes, I'm sure he'd had some drinks. Freddy's bragging and boasting does get pretty old , but we're used to it, Remember everyone hasn't had so many doses as the ones of us who've been around a while. As far as the posts it just looks like he copied and pasted some of Hackers material.
I'm sure Freddy didn't really get his feelers hurt, he's got to much ego for that to bother him.
Rod.

Thanks and I am very sorry to Fred and everyone that had to see or hear that garbage I spewed. I have an ego too and he can push the buttons.I'll try to get used to it too from now on.Or I just won't post here anymore.John B.

 

[wgcp]

Bank pool greats

Bank pool greats

:helpSo... two of the guys that I think impart the best knowledge given in the 5 years I have been on this forum are not going to post anymore... :frus come on guys, both of you deserve to have big egos... and both of you eloquently provide insight into a tough game to learn...

Life is too short as we seem to lose the greats everyday... but I will offer a resolution... I will treat a dinner to both of you, and be the arbitrator for the discussion... no guns or knives allowed... you both cut pretty well with words...

I really don't think this forum wants to lose either of you...

Just saying...

B

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

even the good guys have bad days.
Dr. Bill

come on guys, both of you deserve to have big egos...you both cut pretty well with words...

I'm sorry guys, but I strongly disagree with any excusing/defending of what John said...calling Freddy a lifetime nit could be forgiven - but there is no excusing the other things that John said.......and saying he was >>> having a bad day - doesn't cut it...

And as for >>> "you both cut pretty well with words"......no, I'm not going for that, they're both equal stuff either - Freddy sure as hell never said, and never would say to anybody on here, the kind of things that John said to him ------>


"you fu#*in' piece of sh#%"......."you fu#*in' punk"......."you never did nothin but shark"



No, I agree with what Dennis said - in spades ----->

The words that were written to Freddy & the things that were written about Freddy were vile, disgusting and should never have been written on a public forum

Cowboy Dennis

 

[usblues]

I didnt...

I didnt...

.....read what John said.I didnt want to.This is the first time I have seen these words.I am deeply ashamed and hope Freddie knows most of us here count him as a good man and have stated so over the years.As the CB says I wish they could of been killed before they came out as Freddie is too cool to have to deal with this.Shine it on Freddie and if/when you return we'll be here to carry on wit your badself,cheers,James

 

[Guest]

uncalled for

uncalled for

Believe me, Freddy is no saint (sorry Freddy :lol), but he did not deserve the vicious verbal bombardment. Freddy, if you are reading this, I am very sorry that you were attacked in such a manner. There is no excuse for it.

Clare

 

[ChrisBanks]

To me, Freddie and Billy are the two most valuable people on this forum. They have put alot of time into providing very detailed information about one pocket and banks, and all for free. It amounts to free lessons, and I've written down much of what they have posted here. Losing either of them would be damaging to the forum.

There have been other all-time greats that have shared their wisdom here.... John, Grady, Artie, but none of them have put in the amount of time as Freddie and Billy.

That's what I think.

 

[wincardona]

I'm sorry guys, but I strongly disagree with any excusing/defending of what John said...calling Freddy a lifetime nit could be forgiven - but there is no excusing the other things that John said.......and saying he was >>> having a bad day - doesn't cut it...

And as for >>> "you both cut pretty well with words"......no, I'm not going for that, they're both equal stuff either - Freddy sure as hell never said, and never would say to anybody on here, the kind of things that John said to him ------>


"you fu#*in' piece of sh#%"......."you fu#*in' punk"......."you never did nothin but shark"



No, I agree with what Dennis said - in spades ----->

Of course what John said was distasteful and should never of been said but if we are to go forward we need to try to understand the mitigating circumstance with his state of mind and try to use that as a possible reason why one would say something that is not in his character. John can't take back what was said, but what he can do which he did was to apologize and except whatever consequence he deserves. I don't believe that a person should be judged by a paragraph of words , especially at a weak moment in his life. And also that paragraph was imo totally uncharacteristic of the person that I know on this forum, and on the table. Freddie is a good friend of mine, and i'm sure after he comes to grips with what and why this transpired he'll be just fine, and i'm sure John will see to that as well.

Dr. Bill

 

[lll]

Of course what John said was distasteful and should never of been said but if we are to go forward we need to try to understand the mitigating circumstance with his state of mind and try to use that as a possible reason why one would say something that is not in his character. John can't take back what was said, but what he can do which he did was to apologize and except whatever consequence he deserves. I don't believe that a person should be judged by a paragraph of words , especially at a weak moment in his life. And also that paragraph was imo totally uncharacteristic of the person that I know on this forum, and on the table. Freddie is a good friend of mine, and i'm sure after he comes to grips with what and why this transpired he'll be just fine, and i'm sure John will see to that as well.

Dr. Bill

dr. bill i hope you are corrrect
and they can work out their differences
its already been said many times already and i agree john was completely out of line for his remarks. public or private

 

[fred bentivegna]

Had a long talk with the ultimate common sense person, Dr Bill Incardona. If you ever need a push back to sensibilty he is the guy to do it. Staying away a few days and never opening 1pkt.org not even once, for all that time was helpful.

Decided to put it all behind me. John has apologized. I accept it. I just hope that drinking doesnt become a real problem for him. It has ruined the careers of many. I speak from a prior substance abuse position.

I am grateful and want to give thanks to those who have been supportive and understanding.

For the record, I have railed, and will continue to do so, and barked about East Coasters (2 barrelers tops), West Coasters (over move, never play a passive safety), Kentucky and Cincinnati boys ( shooters not squeezers).
However, some of my closest friends are from all those places: Brooklyn Jimmy, Johnny Irvolino, Brooklyn Pancho, Truman Hogue in Ky, and Jack and Barbara Cooney from LA and San Francisco. And a whole lot more.

Beard

Finally, let us not forget that I have publicly stated on this forum, several times, that John Brumback is the best bank pool player in the world today.

 

[vapros]

Good on you, Freddy.

 

[Jimmy B]

.....read what John said.I didnt want to.This is the first time I have seen these words.I am deeply ashamed and hope Freddie knows most of us here count him as a good man and have stated so over the years.As the CB says I wish they could of been killed before they came out as Freddie is too cool to have to deal with this.Shine it on Freddie and if/when you return we'll be here to carry on wit your badself,cheers,James

Had a long talk with the ultimate common sense person, Dr Bill Incardona. If you ever need a push back to sensibilty he is the guy to do it. Staying away a few days and never opening 1pkt.org not even once, for all that time was helpful.

Decided to put it all behind me. John has apologized. I accept it. I just hope that drinking doesnt become a real problem for him. It has ruined the careers of many. I speak from a prior substance abuse position.

I am grateful and want to give thanks to those who have been supportive and understanding.

For the record, I have railed, and will continue to do so, and barked about East Coasters (2 barrelers tops), West Coasters (over move, never play a passive safety), Kentucky and Cincinnati boys ( shooters not squeezers).
However, some of my closest friends are from all those places: Brooklyn Jimmy, Johnny Irvolino, Brooklyn Pancho, Truman Hogue in Ky, and Jack and Barbara Cooney from LA and San Francisco. And a whole lot more.

Beard

Finally, let us not forget that I have publicly stated on this forum, several times, that John Brumback is the best bank pool player in the world today.

I read it James but didn't grasp it. Something to do with certain people being in a certain room at a given time. Anyway this is great news for sure. And as The Beard indicated, If I were on a very high ledge, I would hope for Dr. Bill to be in the room to talk me down off the ledge and back in the room to play more pool. Nobody is a bigger fan of The Beard than I, so it would be MB members who suffer the most. Young people don't seem to realize how much it was to play for $200 or $400 a game in the sixties. It was huge money. You could not get games like that very often and when you did, be careful. Now where is that Artie Bodendorfer??

 

[FastEddieF.]

Glad to have you back, like I said before we all need your input because you've got 50 plus years of knowledge. I respect your opinion more than anyone in this forum. KEEP BANKING BEARD

 

[BillPorter]

Fred and John

Fred and John

Thank goodness you guys have mended the fences. I am not on this forum much, but I know that you two are among the most valued posters on here. I have known John for many years and have very rarely heard him speak badly about anyone, so I know his remarks were out of character. I've only known Fred for a few years, but consider him a friend as well. It's never pleasant when two people you like are at odds with one another, so I am glad that you two have been able to resolve this issue. I'd love to take the two of you to dinner in January at the DCC, but only if I can host both of you at the same time.