End Game Scenario#1 Reyes/butler

SJDinPHX

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=fred bentivegna

Mr. Mxyzptlk was Superman's enemy from the 5th dimension. A creepy little prankster that enjoyed tormenting Superman.
Sound familiar? The only was Superman could get rid of him was if he could make the imp say his name backwards.
Daehkcid, Daehkcid.
I can only assume, as you have cast me in the role of "Mr. Mxyzptlk", that you are casting yourself in the role of Superman..(boy, is that a stretch)..However, coming from you, and how you percieve yourself, I would expect no less...:cool:

Mr. Wise Old Duck <---Is wondering if maybe you have Mr Pincushion, helping you with your responses. They sound eerily like his rationale...completely low IQ blathering, and losing control of all of his bodily functions.

PS..You have a better chance of winning, a war of words, if you would let go of that 2000 lb. billiard table anchor you are dragging around...:p :p
 
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wincardona

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bbutler said:
Well, for what it's worth I actually thought about most of the shots submitted, and frankly I didn't like any of them. I also considered just getting really conservative and just bunting the one about halfway up the lower side rail on Efren's side of the table, then floating the cue ball to the end rail. I kind of wish I had shot that now, because I really feel like it would have brought the situation back to neutral. I rejected it at the time though because it just seemed too negative.

So I guess I had eight or nine possible shots and they were all wrong, lol. That being the case I finally decided to just shoot at the one. My policy going into the tournament was to be aggressive, because bottom line you're not going to beat great players unless you make great shots, and this is most definitely a makeable shot, albeit a very difficult one. Besides, if you're going to get beat, you may as well get beat shooting at your pocket.

Obviously the worst thing that can happen is to catch it thick so you have to play it to favor missing it all together (which is what I ended up doing), but if you do happen to miss it you just playing 2-1 with two balls on the spot, a spot which we've all won plenty of games from.

BUT if you do hit it good, well you just went up 1-0 (and breaking) against the GOAT. That alone makes it well worth the risk, in my opinion. :)
Mr. Butler, not to disagree with you but shooting at your pocket from the angle you were going into the spotted ball will lead the cue ball two cushions toward the corner pocket your shooting out of.:eek: You can hit the shot great and lose because of it, I know, been there and done it. More than once.:eek:

I was playing Boston Shorty in a one pocket match at The Stardust tournament in Las vegas and it was the final game of the match when this shot came up. There was only one ball left on the table and at the age of 23 I could clearly see the edge of it. I looked at it and said the same thing you said about your chance to beat Reyes. I said to myself...I can make this shot and beat Boston Shorty.. And I shot the shot and split the pocket, but the cue ball traveled two cushions and scratched in the same pocket I shot out of.:eek: What an injustice, and did I feel stupid and cheated, I don't know which. But that didn't stop me from shooting the same shot again, and I made it again and scratched again:eek: Since then I dont believe that I ever shot the shot again unless I felt that I wouldn't scratch because of an interfering ball.

Just thought you would like to know that.

Billy I.
 

bbutler

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wincardona said:
Mr. Butler, not to disagree with you but shooting at your pocket from the angle you were going into the spotted ball will lead the cue ball two cushions toward the corner pocket your shooting out of.:eek: You can hit the shot great and lose because of it, I know, been there and done it. More than once.:eek:

I was playing Boston Shorty in a one pocket match at The Stardust tournament in Las vegas and it was the final game of the match when this shot came up. There was only one ball left on the table and at the age of 23 I could clearly see the edge of it. I looked at it and said the same thing you said about your chance to beat Reyes. I said to myself...I can make this shot and beat Boston Shorty.. And I shot the shot and split the pocket, but the cue ball traveled two cushions and scratched in the same pocket I shot out of.:eek: What an injustice, and did I feel stupid and cheated, I don't know which. But that didn't stop me from shooting the same shot again, and I made it again and scratched again:eek: Since then I dont believe that I ever shot the shot again unless I felt that I wouldn't scratch because of an interfering ball.

Just thought you would like to know that.

Billy I.
Thanks, now I hate myself even more :)

Just kidding. Actually I am aware there's a scratch on there, but I felt that the Diamond we were playing on was throwing a little short and would send the cue ball under the scratch. Yours is a good point, though. Nothing would suck more than making the shot and scratching. I'll try and calmly factor that in next time, right before I panic.
 
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androd

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bbutler said:
I also considered just getting really conservative and just bunting the one about halfway up the lower side rail on Efren's side of the table, then floating the cue ball to the end rail. I kind of wish I had shot that now, because I really feel like it would have brought the situation back to neutral. I rejected it at the time though because it just seemed too negative.
I'm pretty much of a gofer but the shot you described, is the shot I shoot in these situtions. Better than the other selections here IMO.
Rod.
 

lll

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Billy
just to avoid confusion is this the shot you mean???
ww1.jpg
 

lll

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bbutler said:
Well, for what it's worth I actually thought about most of the shots submitted, and frankly I didn't like any of them. I also considered just getting really conservative and just bunting the one about halfway up the lower side rail on Efren's side of the table, then floating the cue ball to the end rail. I kind of wish I had shot that now, because I really feel like it would have brought the situation back to neutral. I rejected it at the time though because it just seemed too negative.

So I guess I had eight or nine possible shots and they were all wrong, lol. That being the case I finally decided to just shoot at the one. My policy going into the tournament was to be aggressive, because bottom line you're not going to beat great players unless you make great shots, and this is most definitely a makeable shot, albeit a very difficult one. Besides, if you're going to get beat, you may as well get beat shooting at your pocket.

Obviously the worst thing that can happen is to catch it thick so you have to play it to favor missing it all together (which is what I ended up doing), but if you do happen to miss it you just playing 2-1 with two balls on the spot, a spot which we've all won plenty of games from.

BUT if you do hit it good, well you just went up 1-0 (and breaking) against the GOAT. That alone makes it well worth the risk, if you ask me. It's not like you'll be playing him again next Thursday :)
brian,
its really great that you will come on the site and discuss all this:)
especially when your execution was not exactly as planned:rolleyes:
still as you said it wasnt the end of the world when after your scratch you left efren like this
and he shot it like this
leaving you like this and now its your shot again
ww4.jpg

ww5.jpg
 

lll

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wincardona said:
Mr. Butler, not to disagree with you but shooting at your pocket from the angle you were going into the spotted ball will lead the cue ball two cushions toward the corner pocket your shooting out of.:eek: You can hit the shot great and lose because of it, I know, been there and done it. More than once

I was playing Boston Shorty in a one pocket match at The Stardust tournament in Las vegas and it was the final game of the match when this shot came up. There was only one ball left on the table and at the age of 23 I could clearly see the edge of it. I looked at it and said the same thing you said about your chance to beat Reyes. I said to myself...I can make this shot and beat Boston Shorty.. And I shot the shot and split the pocket, but the cue ball traveled two cushions and scratched in the same pocket I shot out of.:eek: What an injustice, and did I feel stupid and cheated, I don't know which. But that didn't stop me from shooting the same shot again, and I made it again and scratched again:eek: Since then I dont believe that I ever shot the shot again unless I felt that I wouldn't scratch because of an interfering ball.

Just thought you would like to know that.

Billy I.
the pool gods were cruel to you:mad:
after making a shot like that you should be rewarded:)
jmho
 

bstroud

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I shot my shot several times on my Diamond and got a good result every time.

You would have to hit the shot very badly to leave any type of bank.

And yes, I can still see the edge of the ball.

I think it is an easy shot with little risk.

Bill Stroud
 

NH Steve

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bstroud said:
I shot my shot several times on my Diamond and got a good result every time.

You would have to hit the shot very badly to leave any type of bank.

And yes, I can still see the edge of the ball.

I think it is an easy shot with little risk.

Bill Stroud
For anyone who is confused, Bill Stroud and I are talking about the situation with the one ball on the spot and the cue ball near the jaws of the pocket on your own side at the other end of the table -- and we each need one.
As I understand it, Bill Stroud is playing it like this:
http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showpost.php?p=74310&postcount=45

I'm advocating this safety for me:
http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showpost.php?p=74306&postcount=43


I tried banking it directly in my pocket a bunch of times too. For me, no way do I play that shot -- there are at least five ways that I could screw it up and lose and I found them much more likely than actually hitting it well enough to have it be a winner or near winner for me:

You can hit it too thin and leave a cut shot
You can hit it too thick and leave a bank or even a cut if you hit it too hard too
You can scratch in the side
You can scratch in the far corner (my favorite)
Oh, the fifth -- I missed the ball completely once. But if you shoot sharp enough to avoid that, for another fifth, I will throw in the possibility of hitting the side pocket point, and coming back down to leave an easy bank.

I'm curious how others do with this shot, but it sure isn't for me :D
 

lll

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NH Steve said:
For anyone who is confused, Bill Stroud and I are talking about the situation with the one ball on the spot and the cue ball near the jaws of the pocket on your own side at the other end of the table -- and we each need one.
As I understand it, Bill Stroud is playing it like this:
http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showpost.php?p=74310&postcount=45

I'm advocating this safety for me:
http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showpost.php?p=74306&postcount=43


I tried banking it directly in my pocket a bunch of times too. For me, no way do I play that shot -- there are at least five ways that I could screw it up and lose and I found them much more likely than actually hitting it well enough to have it be a winner or near winner for me:

You can hit it too thin and leave a cut shot
You can hit it too thick and leave a bank or even a cut if you hit it too hard too
You can scratch in the side
You can scratch in the far corner (my favorite)
Oh, the fifth -- I missed the ball completely once. But if you shoot sharp enough to avoid that, for another fifth, I will throw in the possibility of hitting the side pocket point, and coming back down to leave an easy bank.

I'm curious how others do with this shot, but it sure isn't for me :D
steve.
not to add to confusion
but is this the shot that billy was advocating??
similar to yours??
http://onepocket.org/forum/showpost.php?p=74351&postcount=65
 

bstroud

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Steve,

The only problem I have with your shot is that on the next shot your opponent will have the ball on his side of the table.

With the shot that I choose it is much more difficult to get the object ball on his side of the table.

In the end you need to shoot the shot that works for you. I play very aggressive and have utmost confidence in my ability to execute the shot of MY choice. I do not look back.

It is the same when I am running balls in my pocket. When I have a clear shot at my pocket the other pocket does no enter my mind. That comes from years of giving large spots and having to run out to over come it.

Bill Stroud
 

androd

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bbutler said:
I also considered just getting really conservative and just bunting the one about halfway up the lower side rail on Efren's side of the table, then floating the cue ball to the end rail. I kind of wish I had shot that now, because I really feel like it would have brought the situation back to neutral. I rejected it at the time though because it just seemed too negative.
androd said:
I'm pretty much of a gofer but the shot you described, is the shot I shoot in these situtions. Better than the other selections here IMO.
Rod.
This still seems the best and easiest safety. If you shoot the 3 railer you must deal with a kiss. ;) The 2 railer turns the CB loose
and may scratch in the side.
Rod.
 

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fred bentivegna

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Thats very good.

Thats very good.

NH Steve said:
For anyone who is confused, Bill Stroud and I are talking about the situation with the one ball on the spot and the cue ball near the jaws of the pocket on your own side at the other end of the table -- and we each need one.
As I understand it, Bill Stroud is playing it like this:
http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showpost.php?p=74310&postcount=45

I'm advocating this safety for me:
http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showpost.php?p=74306&postcount=43


I tried banking it directly in my pocket a bunch of times too. For me, no way do I play that shot -- there are at least five ways that I could screw it up and lose and I found them much more likely than actually hitting it well enough to have it be a winner or near winner for me:

You can hit it too thin and leave a cut shot
You can hit it too thick and leave a bank or even a cut if you hit it too hard too
You can scratch in the side
You can scratch in the far corner (my favorite)
Oh, the fifth -- I missed the ball completely once. But if you shoot sharp enough to avoid that, for another fifth, I will throw in the possibility of hitting the side pocket point, and coming back down to leave an easy bank.

I'm curious how others do with this shot, but it sure isn't for me :D
Now that is how you are supposed to think thru a shot option. Not just hit and hope.

Beard
 

fred bentivegna

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Hooray...

Hooray...

androd said:
This still seems the best and easiest safety. If you shoot the 3 railer you must deal with a kiss. ;) The 2 railer turns the CB loose
and may scratch in the side.
Rod.

The simplest and standard solution.
Worst case scenario. If you hit it horrible you might leave a very difficult passover straight back or a very difficult 3 in the corner.

http://onepocket.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3534&stc=1&d=1310930653

Beard

Mr. Mxyzptlk could execute this sitting in his HoverRound. Say it! Say it, and go away! naMrekconK
 

wincardona

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fred bentivegna said:
The simplest and standard solution.
Worst case scenario. If you hit it horrible you might leave a very difficult passover straight back or a very difficult 3 in the corner.

http://onepocket.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3534&stc=1&d=1310930653

Beard

Mr. Mxyzptlk could execute this sitting in his HoverRound. Say it! Say it, and go away! naMrekconK
Certainly a viable option, along with my choice of crossing the ob and repositioning it to the right of the foot spot.

With Rodneys shot if you hit it too softly you can also leave a two railer cross corner. I believe that both Rodney's shot and my choice are the two best options, pick your poison.:eek: But what ever you do don't bank it cross corner.:eek: :eek: Sorry Mr. Stroud.:)

Billy I.
 

wincardona

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lll said:
Yes that's the shot, but Rods shot is also a good shot.

I'm not feeling so well, my hips and back are giving me problems. Been layed up for a little over a day, thought that I moght be able to play pool soon.

At least I can have some fun and listen to the Beard and Duck show, those guys are really funny.

Time to ice my back, shoot my shot and practice it. Getting dilirious but this will pass to.:(

Billy I.
 

lll

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wincardona said:
Yes that's the shot, but Rods shot is also a good shot.

I'm not feeling so well, my hips and back are giving me problems. Been layed up for a little over a day, thought that I moght be able to play pool soon.

At least I can have some fun and listen to the Beard and Duck show, those guys are really funny.

Time to ice my back, shoot my shot and practice it. Getting dilirious but this will pass to.:(

Billy I.
hope you feel better:)
take 2 aspirins and call me in the morning
trust me
im a doctor:rolleyes: :D
jk
i know its no fun to be in pain:(
 

Island Drive

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wincardona said:
Don't forget that the starting position has a lot to do with the decision making process.

Billy I.

The starting position factor has its hands in lady luck.
 
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