End Game Scenario#1 Reyes/butler

lll

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
15,120
bstroud said:
The shot now is rail first with high right. Kill the cue ball and send the object ball off the side rail to your side. The only danger is to not make the ball in the side pocket. You can avoid this by using a little less side.

Bill Stroud
i also thought id go rail first but efren went ball first like this and left butler like this
eb7.jpg

eb8.jpg
butlers shot now
 

lll

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
15,120
not much responce to the above scenario:eek: :D :(
ok we are alittle farther in this game and its brians shot
be specific if you can as to where you want the cue and object ball to end up
bb1.png
 

bstroud

Verified Member
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
1,426
I think I would just one rail the ball into my pocket and leave the cue ball on the end rail. It is a chance to win without much exposure.

The shot that Efferin shot instead of the rail first shot in the previous pic turned out well but was high risk.

Bill Stroud
 

lll

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
15,120
bstroud said:
I think I would just one rail the ball into my pocket and leave the cue ball on the end rail. It is a chance to win without much exposure.

The shot that Efferin shot instead of the rail first shot in the previous pic turned out well but was high risk.

Bill Stroud
bill is this what you mean???
bb2.png
 

fred bentivegna

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Messages
6,690
If this is good...

If this is good...

lll said:
bill is this what you mean???
View attachment 3529
... then why was my choice deemed "risky?" According to Dr Bill and *Mr. Mxyzptlk. The one where the guy needing one had q ball in hand and there were 3 balls on the spot. I said to clip the end ball and return the q ball to the end rail. Remember with my option, I was starting out with q ball in hand behind the line, at least two feet closer to the object ball.

Beard

* Mr. Mxyzptlk was Superman's enemy from the 5th dimension. A creepy little prankster that enjoyed tormenting Superman.
Sound familiar? The only was Superman could get rid of him was if he could make the imp say his name backwards.
Daehkcid, Daehkcid.
 
Last edited:

androd

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
7,193
fred bentivegna said:
... then why was my choice deemed "risky?" According to Dr Bill and *Mr. Mxyzptlk. The one where the guy needing one had q ball in hand and there were 3 balls on the spot. I said to clip the end ball and return the q ball to the end rail. Remember with my option, I was starting out with q ball in hand behind the line, at least two feet closer to the object ball.

Beard
You had the opposite pocket. No good player gonna shot this one to make it either.:)
Rod.
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,365
bstroud said:
I think I would just one rail the ball into my pocket and leave the cue ball on the end rail. It is a chance to win without much exposure.

The shot that Efferin shot instead of the rail first shot in the previous pic turned out well but was high risk.

Bill Stroud
I really don't like banking at my pocket from this position, too risky and the speed of the shot isn't there.

Considering the distance you are from the ob and the closeness to the rail you are with the cue ball makes this a very demanding shot, in terms of accuracy. A mishit here and you can easily scratch in either the side or corner pocket. Plus if hit accurately you will have problems controlling the speed of the cue ball. Imo it's not the right time to gamble, especially when there are many safety options available.

I've experienced success with shots of this type by simply rolling the ob to the bottom rail and then back to slightly to the right of the foot spot, the way the player sees the table. The cue ball will drop softly to the side rail, and then to the bottom rail. This type of hit will not leave a one nor a two railer.

Billy I.
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,365
fred bentivegna said:
... then why was my choice deemed "risky?" According to Dr Bill and *Mr. Mxyzptlk. The one where the guy needing one had q ball in hand and there were 3 balls on the spot. I said to clip the end ball and return the q ball to the end rail. Remember with my option, I was starting out with q ball in hand behind the line, at least two feet closer to the object ball.

Beard

* Mr. Mxyzptlk was Superman's enemy from the 5th dimension. A creepy little prankster that enjoyed tormenting Superman.
Sound familiar? The only was Superman could get rid of him was if he could make the imp say his name backwards.
Daehkcid, Daehkcid.
Why do you find it hard to believe that there are many risky shots? And what relevance do you see between both your shot and Strouds shot?:confused:

Or are you implying since Stroud chose a risky shot, that should lessen the risk with your choice on the 3 ball on the foot spot shot? Really.:rolleyes:

I know you can do better than that.

If you got something on your chest that you want to get off, nows the time. Go for it.:D

Dr. Bill
 

lll

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
15,120
wincardona said:
I really don't like banking at my pocket from this position, too risky and the speed of the shot isn't there.

Considering the distance you are from the ob and the closeness to the rail you are with the cue ball makes this a very demanding shot, in terms of accuracy. A mishit here and you can easily scratch in either the side or corner pocket. Plus if hit accurately you will have problems controlling the speed of the cue ball. Imo it's not the right time to gamble, especially when there are many safety options available.

I've experienced success with shots of this type by simply rolling the ob to the bottom rail and then back to slightly to the right of the foot spot, the way the player sees the table. The cue ball will drop softly to the side rail, and then to the bottom rail. This type of hit will not leave a one nor a two railer.

Billy I.
billy
in a way you are shooting the 3 balls or 2 balls on the spot shot with one ball on the spot:eek:
except you are leaving the cue ball in front of your own pocket .
if there were more balls on the spot and ball in hand you would shoot it from the other side.
p.s. i would have shot it like steve
right?:D :)
 
Last edited:

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,365
lll said:
billy
in a way you are shooting the 3 balls or 2 balls on the spot shot with one ball on the spot:eek:
except you are leaving the cue ball in front of your own pocket .
if there were more balls on the spot and ball in hand you would shoot it from the other side.
p.s. i would have shot it like steve
right?:D :)
yOUR CONFUSING ME, OR SHOULD i HAVE SAID I'M CONFUSING YOU, RIGHT?

This shot should be CROSSED so the cue ball will end up near the foot rail on your opponents side of the table. The crossed ball will end up to the right of the foot spot the way THE SHOOTER sees the table.

Hope that cleared things up.:)

Billy I.
 

fred bentivegna

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Messages
6,690
Sarcasm

Sarcasm

wincardona said:
Why do you find it hard to believe that there are many risky shots? And what relevance do you see between both your shot and Strouds shot?:confused:

Or are you implying since Stroud chose a risky shot, that should lessen the risk with your choice on the 3 ball on the foot spot shot? Really.:rolleyes:

I know you can do better than that.

If you got something on your chest that you want to get off, nows the time. Go for it.:D

Dr. Bill
I was being sarcastic. I dont like Stroud's shot. As the accuracy of the hit involved is too high risk. But the degree of difficulty between his shot and mine is night and day. Mine was 2 foot closer. That was the point I was trying to make. Please dont tell me again how hard it is to bunt off the 3rd ball and come up the table with cue ball in hand. You are agreeing with Mr. Mxyzptlk. What's up with dat?

Beard

You are forgetting how much he hates "real" hustlers.
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,365
wincardona said:
yOUR CONFUSING ME, OR SHOULD i HAVE SAID I'M CONFUSING YOU, RIGHT?

This shot should be CROSSED so the cue ball will end up near the foot rail on your opponents side of the table. The crossed ball will end up to the right of the foot spot the way THE SHOOTER sees the table.

Hope that cleared things up.:)

Billy I.
What should be understood prior to shooting this shot is that the shooter is at a disadvantage. There really isn't a reasonable offensive shot available, so you must choose a high % safety.

Shootinjg Steves shot, like Freddie said you could easily leave either a one or two rail bank. With Steves shot, especially from the difficult starting position you mus controll both the cue ball and the object ball. Meaning there is nothing natural about either. < Very important point.

Choosing my roll shot you have better control of both the cue ball and object ball. This shot plays more natural. Hit it reasonably well and concentrate on the soft speed the shot should be hit with to reposition the ob to the right of the foot spot.

I would strongly suggest for those who aren't familiar with this shot to set it up and hit it 5 or 10 times, just to develop a feel and understanding of the strength of the shot.

This shot and shots that carry a similiar angle as this shot come up a lot.Develop a feel for this shot and incorporate it into your arsenal of shots.

Billy I.
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,365
fred bentivegna said:
I was being sarcastic. I dont like Stroud's shot. As the accuracy of the hit involved is too high risk. But the degree of difficulty between his shot and mine is night and day. Mine was 2 foot closer. That was the point I was trying to make. Please dont tell me again how hard it is to bunt off the 3rd ball and come up the table with cue ball in hand. You are agreeing with Mr. Mxyzptlk. What's up with dat?

Beard

You are forgetting how much he hates "real" hustlers.
Actually I am disagreeing with you, and if there is any one else that sees it as I do than yes I am agreeing with who ever they are.

I try to be as objective as I can, and there are going to be times when I agree with people that are smarter than me and than their are times when i'm going to disagree with the same people.

Always remember, i'm a Dr. not a tush hog:eek:

But to tell you the truth (if you can handle the truth) I have much more fun disagreeing with you>:p

Dr. Billy I
 

NH Steve

Administrator
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
8,898
wincardona said:
What should be understood prior to shooting this shot is that the shooter is at a disadvantage. There really isn't a reasonable offensive shot available, so you must choose a high % safety.

Shootinjg Steves shot, like Freddie said you could easily leave either a one or two rail bank. With Steves shot, especially from the difficult starting position you mus controll both the cue ball and the object ball. Meaning there is nothing natural about either. < Very important point.

Choosing my roll shot you have better control of both the cue ball and object ball. This shot plays more natural. Hit it reasonably well and concentrate on the soft speed the shot should be hit with to reposition the ob to the right of the foot spot.

I would strongly suggest for those who aren't familiar with this shot to set it up and hit it 5 or 10 times, just to develop a feel and understanding of the strength of the shot.

This shot and shots that carry a similiar angle as this shot come up a lot.Develop a feel for this shot and incorporate it into your arsenal of shots.

Billy I.
Now I'm confused -- my shot is a roll shot (my favorite type of safety :) ) -- and your shot sounds a lot like mine anyway (since you mention going to the side rail then down to the end rail), but by your description, it sounds like you are hitting the object ball a little fuller than I would. I am aiming at about a half ball hit (again, my favorite because of the advantageous margin of error), and either straight top, or maybe even a touch of outside english, which helps kill the cue ball a little bit. In my experience, the biggest risk is hitting the object ball too full -- which is why I am cutting it a wee bit more than you I guess -- too me, that is the safer side.
 

fred bentivegna

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Messages
6,690
A different shot, Steve

A different shot, Steve

NH Steve said:
Now I'm confused -- my shot is a roll shot (my favorite type of safety :) ) -- and your shot sounds a lot like mine anyway (since you mention going to the side rail then down to the end rail), but by your description, it sounds like you are hitting the object ball a little fuller than I would. I am aiming at about a half ball hit (again, my favorite because of the advantageous margin of error), and either straight top, or maybe even a touch of outside english, which helps kill the cue ball a little bit. In my experience, the biggest risk is hitting the object ball too full -- which is why I am cutting it a wee bit more than you I guess -- too me, that is the safer side.

Billy is talking about a different shot. He is banking the object ball to the right. You are banking the object ball to the left. His is a standard move in this spot. --- I think. He has also confused me with saying the q ball hits the long rail first and then drops to the short rail. I dont think that that is what he meant.

Beard
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,365
NH Steve said:
Now I'm confused -- my shot is a roll shot (my favorite type of safety :) ) -- and your shot sounds a lot like mine anyway (since you mention going to the side rail then down to the end rail), but by your description, it sounds like you are hitting the object ball a little fuller than I would. I am aiming at about a half ball hit (again, my favorite because of the advantageous margin of error), and either straight top, or maybe even a touch of outside english, which helps kill the cue ball a little bit. In my experience, the biggest risk is hitting the object ball too full -- which is why I am cutting it a wee bit more than you I guess -- too me, that is the safer side.
I would rather disagree with The Beard, but maybe to you your choice is best. Try my shot 10 times, and than hit your shot 10 times and get back with me. Whatever your answer is when you get back with me i'll give extra consideration to it when it comes up.

Don't forget that the starting position has a lot to do with the decision making process.

Billy I.
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,365
fred bentivegna said:
Billy is talking about a different shot. He is banking the object ball to the right. You are banking the object ball to the left. His is a standard move in this spot.

Beard
No I believe he understands my shot by his description of how the cue ball will react off the hit.

I'm trying to explain the difficulty of the shot, based off of the starting position with the cue ball. Not much cue ball to hit when it's positioned so closely to the rail. A softer more accurate hit with the cue ball will give you more consistency.

Billy I.
 

bbutler

Verified Member
Joined
May 23, 2011
Messages
14
Well, for what it's worth I actually thought about most of the shots submitted, and frankly I didn't like any of them. I also considered just getting really conservative and just bunting the one about halfway up the lower side rail on Efren's side of the table, then floating the cue ball to the end rail. I kind of wish I had shot that now, because I really feel like it would have brought the situation back to neutral. I rejected it at the time though because it just seemed too negative.

So I guess I had eight or nine possible shots and they were all wrong, lol. That being the case I finally decided to just shoot at the one. My policy going into the tournament was to be aggressive, because bottom line you're not going to beat great players unless you make great shots, and this is most definitely a makeable shot, albeit a very difficult one. Besides, if you're going to get beat, you may as well get beat shooting at your pocket.

Obviously the worst thing that can happen is to catch it thick so you have to play it to favor missing it all together (which is what I ended up doing), but if you do happen to miss it you just playing 2-1 with two balls on the spot, a spot which we've all won plenty of games from.

BUT if you do hit it good, well you just went up 1-0 (and breaking) against the GOAT. That alone makes it well worth the risk, if you ask me. It's not like you'll be playing him again next Thursday :)
 
Top