CULEMAN AND EFREN PLAYING BALKLINE

[lll]

I STARTED AT A SPOT WITH EFREN SHOOTING
THANKS TO DEAN_H AT AZB
for reference...general rules /types of games and referree calls and what they mean

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The USBA is the official governing body for three-cushion (carom) billiards in America. The United States Billiard Association - 3-cushion billiards in the USA.

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Efren Reyes vs. Raymond Ceulemans Baulkline 71_2 Carom Cafe NYC full match. Commentary by Robert Raiford and Torbjorn Blomdahl.

 

[gulfportdoc]

That game would sure help a guy's 1P game!

 

[12squared]

I STARTED AT A SPOT WITH EFREN SHOOTING
THANKS TO DEAN_H AT AZB
Efren Reyes vs. Raymond Ceulemans Baulkline 71_2 Carom Cafe NYC full match. Commentary by Robert Raiford and Torbjorn Blomdahl.

This is awesome watching my 2 heros. Thanks, Larry.

 

[mr3cushion]

Nice video Larry!

 

[lll]

i added the balkline rules and alittle bit about balkline link to my first post
just in case anyone looking needs to know alittle more about the game like i do

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

Thanks Larry, that was fascinating. I do not believe I have ever seen it played.
At Seniors it was mentioned that Efren is considered one of the better players of this game.
Whitey

 

[rich htx]

Reyes is considered a world champion balkline player among pool players
for some reason
he is not however
he's very good obviously and I'm surprised to see he won over Raymond here who is a world champion at every Carom game but 47.1 in his time
But I think Reyes has been hitting balls a hell of alot more than Raymond has been later on in their careers.

Reyes is not near the level of the caudron, niessen, de bruijn, van etten, Garcia,cuenca,gretillat, a handful of the worlds elite
Caudron and Garcia both averaged over 100 in the last world tournament.
Average 100 points each visit to the table.
Any of these guys can run out a game in a single inning and have.

Forgive me , I get triggered I guess when it comes to the subject of Reyes being a top balkline player. I love this beautiful game, wish more people had an interest in it. And with Efren as an ambassador to the pool playing world, I'm surprised virtually none have looked into to.

. He's said on video it's his favorite of all billiard game. And what a feather in his cap a win over the great one, exhibition or not, for sure this match helped fuel the legend further.

 

[mr3cushion]

Reyes is considered a world champion balkline player among pool players
for some reason
he is not however
he's very good obviously and I'm surprised to see he won over Raymond here who is a world champion at every Carom game but 47.1 in his time
But I think Reyes has been hitting balls a hell of alot more than Raymond has been later on in their careers.

Reyes is not near the level of the caudron, niessen, de bruijn, van etten, Garcia,cuenca,gretillat, a handful of the worlds elite
Caudron and Garcia both averaged over 100 in the last world tournament.
Average 100 points each visit to the table.
Any of these guys can run out a game in a single inning and have.

Forgive me , I get triggered I guess when it comes to the subject of Reyes being a top balkline player. I love this beautiful game, wish more people had an interest in it. And with Efren as an ambassador to the pool playing world, I'm surprised virtually none have looked into to.

. He's said on video it's his favorite of all billiard game. And what a feather in his cap a win over the great one, exhibition or not, for sure this match helped fuel the legend further.

Rich You're exactly correct! Balkline matches are generally 300 points, 100 points is like playing 15 points of 3C, a lesser player has a chance and that's what happen here! There's know doubt Reyes knows the game from experience, but, doesn't know/have the subtle/nuances the Top players have and complete control they have. Many of the Top balkline players have run 300 & out in events. The Europeans & Vietnamese are the best players of the, 'small games' now days.

This is how it's played! 300 & out!!!! And he set a new World record average for 17 games, 126.9 per inning!!!

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

I only know Reyes as being able to play 3c, and that is probably the extent that most pool players know about him, if that at all. But I can not take anything away from Reyes for he such a love of playing pool and as we learn he really likes Balkline.
But, in reality Efren has not and can not devote his life to Balkline or 3c, for he is dependent upon pocketing balls, of which he is considered by many the greatest ever. And yes, there can be no comparison to him and others that devote their life to 3c and Balkline. I mean he could certainly get to their level when he was young, but he would of also had to give up another love of the game and that is pocketing balls.

Very hard to be the worlds greatest at both, no one has ever been known for that, but there have been a few world champions at each.
I think De Oro has to be considered the greatest combination of pool and billiard player of all times. He almost has double the amount of world championships than others have. Mosconi thought he could play 3c and become a world champion, but did he. Not easy.
Whitey

 

[mr3cushion]

There have been several, Pool/3C Champions at the same times in their lives! Alfredo de Oro, Johnny Layton, Harold Worst! I'm sure I'm missing a few. I'm pretty sure at the, 'Seniors' qualified persons to opine on Efren's World ranking at, Caroms were not present!

BTW, de Oro did NOT win outright all his World 3C Championships! He won some 'challenge' matches against the Champ during some years.

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

There have been several, Pool/3C Champions at the same times in their lives! Alfredo de Oro, Johnny Layton, Harold Worst! I'm sure I'm missing a few. I'm pretty sure at the, 'Seniors' qualified persons to opine on Efren's World ranking at, Caroms were not present!

Yes, I know of them and that they did this, but are they considered the worlds greatest at it. I would say De Oro probably was considered the worlds greatest 3c during his era, the others you mentioned would not obtain that distinction.

I am agreeing. And I agree that Efren legacy as a 3c / balkline is blow out of proportion by unknowing pool players. But they is no killing the legend, no matter how false it is.
Whitey

 

[lll]

i only watched alittle of caudron running over 100
a few observations
when he elevated his cue sharply his grip was more in a "dart" position not a regular grip and elevated cue
is this a standard method for playing those shoots?
i also noticed his grip hand is very forward
is that because of the soft small stroke desired?
it is truly amazing how he can recreated the same positions
over and over and over and over and over
you get the idea.....

 

[rich htx]

If caudron is doing it, it's being done the right way lol

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

Story goes after Harold Worst won the 3c title, he, I guess, invited Johnny 'Irish' Lineen to come to his house and play some 3c. Irish won handedly. And talk about myths, Irish is said to be able with ball in hand behind the line and an object ball spotted on the foot spot, pocket the ball in the foot corner pocket and then draw the cb past the side pocket before it touches a rail. Also it is said that from the kitchen he stroke the cb down the table with so much draw that is goes down the table and reverses back to him without touching a rail. This is like on par with Davey Crocket. But you can not kill the myths.

So when commentators, such as at Seniors say Efren is considered one of the best Balkline players, then you can not kill the myth.

But for me, not seeing this balkline played before, it was spectacular. The 3c and Balkline players have a lot going on for them. They live above the table like no other! It is very respectfully what they can do!
Whitey

 

[mr3cushion]

i only watched alittle of caudron running over 100
a few observations
when he elevated his cue sharply his grip was more in a "dart" position not a regular grip and elevated cue
is this a standard method for playing those shoots?
i also noticed his grip hand is very forward
is that because of the soft small stroke desired?
it is truly amazing how he can recreated the same positions
over and over and over and over and over
you get the idea.....

Larry; How the cue is gripped for pique/masse shots is, somewhat personal, but, being that the, 'wrist' is all important, and the anatomy of the wrist is designed to go, 'up & down' with the palm facing down, it seems logical to hold the cue in the, 'knuckles' of the hand then the, 'traditional' grip on a cue. The forward grip on the cue is for more precise control with the balls being/keeping them closer together.

 

[12squared]

Story goes after Harold Worst won the 3c title, he, I guess, invited Johnny 'Irish' Lineen to come to his house and play some 3c. Irish won handedly. And talk about myths, Irish is said to be able with ball in hand behind the line and an object ball spotted on the foot spot, pocket the ball in the foot corner pocket and then draw the cb past the side pocket before it touches a rail. Also it is said that from the kitchen he stroke the cb down the table with so much draw that is goes down the table and reverses back to him without touching a rail. This is like on par with Davey Crocket. But you can not kill the myths.

So when commentators, such as at Seniors say Efren is considered one of the best Balkline players, then you can not kill the myth.
Whitey

Efren can play all games well. Here's an example:

He played in an international 3ç tourney at Chris's billiards many years ago. The format was to field two final round robins, one for this top of the food chain international players and one for the top American players for lack of a better description. Efren made the 2nd round robin finals and won it with an average of 1/inning. One had to finish high in their bracket to earn the spot in the 2nd finals.

That chart was up at Chris's for years and still may be there (hanging on the left wall as walking up the stairs). The man can play...even if he's not the best in world in all games. He's the best I ever saw on a pool table.

 

[mr3cushion]

Efren can play all games well. Here's an example:

He played in an international 3ç tourney at Chris's billiards many years ago. The format was to field two final round robins, one for this top of the food chain international players and one for the top American players for lack of a better description. Efren made the 2nd round robin finals and won it with an average of 1/inning. One had to finish high in their bracket to earn the spot in the 2nd finals.

That chart was up at Chris's for years and still may be there (hanging on the left wall as walking up the stairs). The man can play...even if he's not the best in world in all games. He's the best I ever saw on a pool table.

In another year, that same event at Chris's, as did Efren, Artie won the, 'B' Final bracket of the 3C. I think maybe a year or too before Efren. This 'B' round robin was for the players that didn't finish ,1st - 3rd in their respective original brackets.

There's no doubt Efren plays all cue games very well, and pool at the most elite level!

IMHO, even thou he was taken from the cue games world way too soon, Harold Worst was the, 'GOAT' all around player! Who knows how great he could have been with an average life span!

Almost forgot, As Frederic Caudron is the, 'GOAT' at all Carom games!

 

[rich htx]

Larry; How the cue is gripped for pique/masse shots is, somewhat personal, but, being that the, 'wrist' is all important, and the anatomy of the wrist is designed to go, 'up & down' with the palm facing down, it seems logical to hold the cue in the, 'knuckles' of the hand then the, 'traditional' grip on a cue. The forward grip on the cue is for more precise control with the balls being/keeping them closer together.

View attachment 436067

Also, just give it a try, it feels far more free and way more control this way compared to how pool players hold with the hand gripping long ways and the wrist is all but locked with little movement available
it's way more natural having your hand turned upward toward the butt end darting it downward

 

[12squared]

In another year, that same event at Chris's, as did Efren, Artie won the, 'B' Final bracket of the 3C. I think maybe a year or too before Efren. This 'B' round robin was for the players that didn't finish ,1st - 3rd in their respective original brackets.

There's no doubt Efren plays all cue games very well, and pool at the most elite level!

IMHO, even thou he was taken from the cue games world way too soon, Harold Worst was the, 'GOAT' all around player! Who knows how great he could have been with an average life span!

I agree about Harold Worst. RIP

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

Very nice picture Bill of your grip and you! Interesting grip, I'll get out a cloth protector and try it. I also agree about Worst. I remember when I heard he won Johnston City, man that was really some news! But I can not imagine being the 3c Billiard world champion and still giving it to our top 9-ball players. I believe in part what made him so feared, is that he could play on his own money.

Great thread!
thanks, Whitey