Would you put this last ball into play, in a serious game?

[Cowboy Dennis]

Here is an interesting situation from "iusedtoberich". It's from 3 1/2 years ago and received many different responses from different players about what they'd shoot from here. What would you do?

Would you put this last ball into play, in a serious game?


This shot came up in a high dollar ahead set I was in a couple years ago. I made a HORRIBLE mistake and let my opponent get balls back into play, and even helped him. I needed one, and he needed 4. I acknowledge that mistake. But, that was in the prior innings and I could not change what I did. So this is what I faced now.

Should I:

1. Put the last ball in play by shooting it straight in, and make my opponent have to deal with breaking up the line of balls. The cue ball would be frozen on the end rail.

2. Try to play a safety off the line of balls, and begin the process of sending them back uptable out of play.

To give you an idea of the caliber of play, I was a C+ to B- player at the time. He was a solid mid B player. I was getting 4 balls. We were both experienced gamblers. And we both prepared well for this match and were in stroke.

Here is his layout from the thread. You have pocket 'A' and need one ball, it's your shot:

 

[beatle]

no, skin off the 4 ball and go two rails and bring the cueball behind the line of balls slightly more to his side..

 

[androd]

NO.
I'm sure I said no before.
I liked Ghosts shot in the previous thread, which is the shot Beatle described above. It's a good shot, one I didn't see til the ghost posted it.
Rod.

 

[fred bentivegna]

no, skin off the 4 ball and go two rails and bring the cueball behind the line of balls slightly more to his side..

I agree. Try and move the 4 far enough so that you might snooker him on it. Then your oppo would have to play a passive shot.

Beard

 

[tylerdurden]

I'll just start off by saying I don't agree with anybody here. I am too tired to defend my opinion too, but I will try. I think we have "rules" in one pocket, and sometimes we let the rules rule us. The guy is going to be frozen on the rail, hardly able to cue the cb. You are acting like (ok, already starting to defend) putting the 4 over there is out of play, but I don't see any spot being "out of play" really during end game.

LEt me ask you all this, because I wont go into all the ways the guy could butcher the frozen rail shot, what can the guy do to you frozen on the rail a little past diamond 1 (play that one to draw back and stay in the gutter by the way). What exactly can he do from there? Maybe there is an answer to this I don't know about so I'll look bad, so let me know.

I really want to know what Duck would do here, no kidding. I think this was probably the strongest part of his game - stuff like this.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

I'll just start off by saying I don't agree with anybody here. I am too tired to defend my opinion too, but I will try. I think we have "rules" in one pocket, and sometimes we let the rules rule us. The guy is going to be frozen on the rail, hardly able to cue the cb. You are acting like (ok, already starting to defend) putting the 4 over there is out of play, but I don't see any spot being "out of play" really during end game.

LEt me ask you all this, because I wont go into all the ways the guy could butcher the frozen rail shot, what can the guy do to you frozen on the rail a little past diamond 1 (play that one to draw back and stay in the gutter by the way). What exactly can he do from there? Maybe there is an answer to this I don't know about so I'll look bad, so let me know.

I really want to know what Duck would do here, no kidding. I think this was probably the strongest part of his game - stuff like this.

TD,

Are you saying to shoot the 4 in and draw back to diamond 1? I don't know what the Duck would do because he never replied in the original thread but if you leave him here I'd bet $10000 that I know what he'd do, and he'd do it well.

 

[lll]

I'll just start off by saying I don't agree with anybody here. I am too tired to defend my opinion too, but I will try. I think we have "rules" in one pocket, and sometimes we let the rules rule us. The guy is going to be frozen on the rail, hardly able to cue the cb. You are acting like (ok, already starting to defend) putting the 4 over there is out of play, but I don't see any spot being "out of play" really during end game.

LEt me ask you all this, because I wont go into all the ways the guy could butcher the frozen rail shot, what can the guy do to you frozen on the rail a little past diamond 1 (play that one to draw back and stay in the gutter by the way). What exactly can he do from there? Maybe there is an answer to this I don't know about so I'll look bad, so let me know.

I really want to know what Duck would do here, no kidding. I think this was probably the strongest part of his game - stuff like this.

tyler i asked that very question to a knowledgeable one pocket player(since that is what i would have shot...)
here is what he answered to my question whats wrong with making the 4 and drawing back ...
Besides putting the winning ball into play for your opponent? And besides not getting the benefit of the move I described?(his shot choicewas what beatle described) And besides with this shot you now have the one loose ball on the table in play on your side? And besides the posibility that your opponent might just thin off the first or second of the four balls on the head string and return the cue ball back to the the top rail leaving you in a tough spot?...... Not much.

 

[ChrisBanks]

Letting him kick at 4 spotted balls can't possibly be the answer. Your opponent might even get all 4 balls to his side of the table if he hits it good.

And he can kick 2 rails from anywhere on the head rail, so it can't be a good choice to leave him there.

 

[NH Steve]

Letting him kick at 4 spotted balls can't possibly be the answer. Your opponent might even get all 4 balls to his side of the table if he hits it good.

And he can kick 2 rails from anywhere on the head rail, so it can't be a good choice to leave him there.

Yes, all the better players are going to kick at that four ball line up and hit it well nearly all the time, leaving the incoming player in a world of trouble. I probably would have shot in the 4 and left the cue ball in the middle of the end rail myself -- not thinking of the skim off the 4-ball :frus

 

[lll]

tyler i asked that very question to a knowledgeable one pocket player(since that is what i would have shot...)
here is what he answered to my question whats wrong with making the 4 and drawing back ...
Besides putting the winning ball into play for your opponent? And besides not getting the benefit of the move I described?(his shot choicewas what beatle described) And besides with this shot you now have the one loose ball on the table in play on your side? And besides the posibility that your opponent might just thin off the first or second of the four balls on the head string and return the cue ball back to the the top rail leaving you in a tough spot?...... Not much.

here is some more that could go wrong with shooting the 4 in

""If you simply shoot the four ball in and freeze the cue ball to the top rail there will then be four balls on the spot. Suppose your opponent chooses to take a foul and leave you in the same position? Now there are five balls on the head string and it is your shot. You can now play a return foul doing the same thing but you would then need two balls instead of one. Probably not the best choice. And your opponent could play two rails off the side rail and up through the string of balls . This is an easy shot to pull off.

With five balls on the head string, you could shoot that two rail kick shot but you still have all five balls in play at the bottom half of the table. The fact that your opponent now needs all five balls to win is in my opinion not worth the price of having all the balls in play down table. "

 

[boingo]

What to do?

What to do?

In my opinion the most important consideration is that I need only one and he needs four. I would like a shot that preserves that pressure and perhaps improves my subsequent chances of scoring.
With that in mind I would try to send the 4b three rails to my side of the foot rail with crazy draw on the Qb to try and bring it back to my opponents side rail.

 

[Tom Wirth]

Maybe you could be more specific. What is crazy draw? And what would be the path of the four ball and the path of the cue ball which would allow you to accomplish this feat?

 

[lll]

hi tom
nice to see you posting...
hey guys the bolded posts i put up were toms words not mine
he is a pretty sporty 1p player who has been around the block more than a few times
welcome back to the site tom

 

[Tom Wirth]

Thanks Larry,
Good to be back.

 

[fred bentivegna]

Okay I am going to post one of the unshakeable tenets of One-pocket. It's stronger than a retarded backer with a big bankroll.

NEVER, if you can help it, shoot at a shot that will allow your opponent to win the game in one shot or inning.

Very simple rule. Follow that rule and you will be tough to beat.

Beard

 

[Tom Wirth]

Yes, Fred
That is why good players squeeze their opponents by sending the balls up and out of play when they have a substantial lead in the game.

The closer one is to winning the more there is to lose, and the more defensive minded one should become.
The closer to defeat one is, the less there is to lose and the more offensive minded one should become.

On the one hand get the balls out of play; on the other hand keep the balls down table and in position to cause havoc and a threat to the leader.

This is the cat and mouse of One Pocket.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Artie gave his opinion and Steve Booth drew up the shot. AB gave it his okey-doke.

I would shoot the one ball and the one ball will go to your side of the table the two ball will stay thier and the 3 ball will go up and down the table by the 2 ball. Its All Cut And Dry . Your Opponent will be on deffese and he will be in a real tough spot. Oh Yah By the way the 2 and 3 ball will block the one ball were he cant hie the one ball. I know what happines on all the shots. Thats Why I know what to shot. In case people think its a accedent of I am Guessing thier is no guessing. He will be in a tough spot and you will be able to manover the balls you want to. And another reason you shot that shot you put him on DEFFENSE. You can take my shots to the bank. Anmd get a million dollaer loan on them. If you need that much money. But that is the shot . And Nothing else counts. I See I have to be a little more aggressive or else you get a 100 chalangers. If Some one does chalange this shot. You better give everyone a good reason why you are shooting that shot. And I would never bring all 4 balls up the table unless you are playing to loose.

With the correct speed you should almost freeze the cue ball to the bottom rail. pt thats a bood diagram what hapines. Shot it and see.

Although I don't mind playing off the left side of the 4 ball and putting the cueball by my opponents pocket I like AB's shot too because it busts up the balls and starts the process so you can move them uptable. What to do, what to do?

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

I have read the first 23 posts five times in the original thread and I swear I don't have any idea what AB's referring to in this post but it's funny as hell.

P.S. Are you starting to see how everything connects?

The Player That Left The Cue Ball Has The Worst Of It Because If Its Players B Shot And He Needs All Four Balls You Just Helped Him. Ans All Player B Has To Do Is Cuy the One Ball To His Side Of The Pocket And Go Two Rails to The End Rail And Player A Will Have A problem. Because The One Ball Will Go to the Side Rail And About A Half A Dimond To A dimond Back Twords the center Of THe Table. And The Four Ball Will Go to the end rail and bacb twordes the center off the table about a half a dimond of the end rail. And The @ and the 3 ball will stay were the are. And PLayer A will have a problem with the one ball and he will have a problem with the 4 ball because its hard to play safe from that position and not leave a bank or some kind of shot. Player A just traped himself by shooting the 4 ball in the pocket and leaving him froze to the center of the table. And the reason he didnt see that is because he thought that his opponent would be safe being on tthe end rail froze and all the balls on the spot. When I was Playing One Pocket I would not have given up none of these shots. Shot it And you will see the player needing all 4 balls is in ok shape. And If The Cue ball ends up froze on the end rail after cutting the one ball. It could be a big problem. But THat is the correct shot. And if you shoot it you will see that is was a mistake leaving him were he left him. And If he would have shot my shot the shot before he would not have this problem know. Are You starting to see how everything conects.

Here is the link to the original thread:http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2797

 

[androd]

I remember the thread and this was the best shot. IMO
Rod.
P.S. He's not gonna like it here.

 

[vapros]

I don't want to pocket the 4 ball and I don't want him to pocket it either. I think I will bank it gently to about the highest diamond on my long rail and leave the cueball pretty much where it is. I don't know what he can do from there that I will like less than where I am now.

I like the shot that Artie and Androd like, but when I shoot it I like to shoot it almost head on, leaving the cueball nearer the center of the short rail.