Whats this spot worth????

tylerdurden

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So, the thread title is "What is this spot worth?"

Any more answers???

I guess it is difficult seeing it is dependent upon the players involved. What if 2 equally matched short-stops were playing, one getting this spot... what do you think the average score would be after 20 games or so?
 

Scrzbill

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So, the thread title is "What is this spot worth?"

Any more answers???

I guess it is difficult seeing it is dependent upon the players involved. What if 2 equally matched short-stops were playing, one getting this spot... what do you think the average score would be after 20 games or so?

3-1 4-1 same as the number of pockets plus once you get your guy down, it gets tougher to think.:p
 

spiderwebcomm

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Here's a good picture I dug out of my phone. It's my shot. My first inclination was to just take the foul and pass it back; however, mind you--- I lost every game up until this point and was tired of it. The 14 was in the way of a straight-kick to my 9, so to make that you have to aim to err to the long rail.

The CB is kissing the 7, so if you kick, you're jacked up (which was par for the course all day).

The score is something like -1 to 1 (I'm -1). I felt if I took an intentional, he would do the same (and so forth), sending my finish line into oblivion.

I opted to kick it (going for the win), missed it by a p-hair, and he ran out. I had to play perfectly to get the balls to where they were. Every error resulted in a run-out. FYI I couldn't escape right -- there was a ball there.


This happened countless times :)


Edit-

Let's turn this into a scenario discussion.

What would you have done? I can't win a "ticky battle."
 
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Jimmy B

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Here's a good picture I dug out of my phone. It's my shot. My first inclination was to just take the foul and pass it back; however, mind you--- I lost every game up until this point and was tired of it. The 14 was in the way of a straight-kick to my 9, so to make that you have to aim to err to the long rail.

The CB is kissing the 7, so if you kick, you're jacked up (which was par for the course all day).

The score is something like -1 to 1 (I'm -1). I felt if I took an intentional, he would do the same (and so forth), sending my finish line into oblivion.

I opted to kick it (going for the win), missed it by a p-hair, and he ran out. I had to play perfectly to get the balls to where they were. Every error resulted in a run-out. FYI I couldn't escape right -- there was a ball there.


This happened countless times :)


Edit-

Let's turn this into a scenario discussion? What would you have done? I can't win a "ticky battle."



Good gosh. You are not suppose to kick at that ball. Put him to where he can't concede the ball to you without risking more. It looks like he had no balls close to his hole and you gave him a jackpot..
 

spiderwebcomm

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Good gosh. You are not suppose to kick at that ball. Put him to where he can't concede the ball to you without risking more. It looks like he had no balls close to his hole and you gave him a jackpot..

There was a ball just over a diamond up from his pocket (it's cut off). If I rolled slightly right to intentional, I would end up back to square one (historically speaking).

I wish I took a better full pic---the tangent took me above his ball on the rail.

Based on that - where would you put the CB? I kicked because it's like a batter who was averaging .000, eventually you have to swing. I totally get it wasn't the statistical move, but frustration got the best of me. He would just take intentionals (many times forcing me to do the same, or lose). It was nothing for a 12-ball run to get out. Happened all the time.

One last thing-- if I got to the short rail on an intentional (by going up table, maybe 2 rails to that position), if I didn't leave it locked--- he would just concede my ball or bank the 14 depending on the leave (I'd prob be kissing the 11 and the rail after he would make my hanger). He never missed a bank and often ran each game out from a bank. If he saw a ball within that half of the table, he made it (bank or otherwise). Otherwise, he would clamp until he did. Seriously. My mindset was to not let him see a bank. That's how I felt.

What's key is I don't have the capability to send the CB to an "exact" spot. He clearly does. Therefore, it was like playing Kasparov mid-game. Every move was one move closer to checkmate... like an hour glass, you run out of time and lose the game.
 
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Dudley

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Here's a good picture I dug out of my phone. It's my shot. My first inclination was to just take the foul and pass it back; however, mind you--- I lost every game up until this point and was tired of it. The 14 was in the way of a straight-kick to my 9, so to make that you have to aim to err to the long rail.

The CB is kissing the 7, so if you kick, you're jacked up (which was par for the course all day).

The score is something like -1 to 1 (I'm -1). I felt if I took an intentional, he would do the same (and so forth), sending my finish line into oblivion.

I opted to kick it (going for the win), missed it by a p-hair, and he ran out. I had to play perfectly to get the balls to where they were. Every error resulted in a run-out. FYI I couldn't escape right -- there was a ball there.


This happened countless times :)


Edit-

Let's turn this into a scenario discussion.

What would you have done? I can't win a "ticky battle."

I would cut the 7 into the 15 and send the cue ball up table 2 crossing rails towards the corner diagonally opposite of your pocket. Without seeing the rest of the table it's tough to see the ideal ending place for the rock.

Depending on how frozen the cue is to the 7 you might be able to get a friendly carom into the ball in your pocket. Regardless you should be able to double him up on the 14.

If the shot was unavailable I would just roll the cue ball to the corner.(diagonally opposite of your corner) Leaving a row of 3 lined up balls at your hole. This is a tough leave for anybody.

Knowing the ball locations on the rest of the table is an important factor for picking a shot. There might be a shot off of the other ball on the table but based on your description I'm not sure where it is.

My $.02

Dud
 

lfigueroa

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Here's a good picture I dug out of my phone. It's my shot. My first inclination was to just take the foul and pass it back; however, mind you--- I lost every game up until this point and was tired of it. The 14 was in the way of a straight-kick to my 9, so to make that you have to aim to err to the long rail.

The CB is kissing the 7, so if you kick, you're jacked up (which was par for the course all day).

The score is something like -1 to 1 (I'm -1). I felt if I took an intentional, he would do the same (and so forth), sending my finish line into oblivion.

I opted to kick it (going for the win), missed it by a p-hair, and he ran out. I had to play perfectly to get the balls to where they were. Every error resulted in a run-out. FYI I couldn't escape right -- there was a ball there.


This happened countless times :)


Edit-

Let's turn this into a scenario discussion.

What would you have done? I can't win a "ticky battle."


I must be missing something.

If the CB is stuck to the 7 why wouldn't you just roll off the 7 with a little inside one rail and stick him to the cluster. If that's too ambitious for you you could just roll off the 7, try and put it where it blocks the bank, and put him on the side rail? Even if you don't go to block the bank you can at least create a bad angle on the bank to minimize any damage should he decide to bet the game.

Lou Figueroa
 

spiderwebcomm

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I must be missing something.

If the CB is stuck to the 7 why wouldn't you just roll off the 7 with a little inside one rail and stick him to the cluster. If that's too ambitious for you you could just roll off the 7, try and put it where it blocks the bank, and put him on the side rail? Even if you don't go to block the bank you can at least create a bad angle on the bank to minimize any damage should he decide to bet the game.

Lou Figueroa

Lou...the tangent took me above a ball that is out of the pic to the right. Bad perspective.

The angle was a hair much.

I prob could have sent the CB into the kitchen and attempt to freeze it and concede a shot to his ball to the right, but he clicked a few in already...so I was gun shy.

My initial thought was to take an intentional and protect ny balls, but I was 0 for "a lot" with that move at that point. Since I couldn't freeze to the rack, I couldn't guarantee to not leave something.

My CB control can't compete with his...it's taking a knife to a gun fight. Didn't you play Eff in one hole? Can you shed light on how that firepower affected your strategy, if at all?

I felt every intentional hurt me a lot more.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
 

spiderwebcomm

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I would cut the 7 into the 15 and send the cue ball up table 2 crossing rails towards the corner diagonally opposite of your pocket. Without seeing the rest of the table it's tough to see the ideal ending place for the rock.

Depending on how frozen the cue is to the 7 you might be able to get a friendly carom into the ball in your pocket. Regardless you should be able to double him up on the 14.

If the shot was unavailable I would just roll the cue ball to the corner.(diagonally opposite of your corner) Leaving a row of 3 lined up balls at your hole. This is a tough leave for anybody.

Knowing the ball locations on the rest of the table is an important factor for picking a shot. There might be a shot off of the other ball on the table but based on your description I'm not sure where it is.

My $.02

Dud

I think you're right. Up table and risking the miss was better than my kick.

I'm interested in hearing from others who played elite 1pkt players.... did you change your strategy knowing if you leave an open bank/shot, you pay for it?

I know now you MUST get ball spots....otherwise, you auto-lose with intentionals...esp when the other two pockets don't come up super often. Like I said, I never played that way before, so my shot selection was prob weak.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
 

androd

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You were in a tough spot. If I were gonna take an intentional which I almost never do when playing a better player.
I would try to get the CB all the way up table and straight in on the ball not seen. If he makes it then he can shoot your ball in but not run a lot of balls.
I don't think.

I'd probably try to go off the 7 ball and ferry boat across the table and back to get near the same spot.
Anyway again "tough spot" :eek:
Rod.
 

Dudley

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You were in a tough spot. If I were gonna take an intentional which I almost never do when playing a better player.
I would try to get the CB all the way up table and straight in on the ball not seen. If he makes it then he can shoot your ball in but not run a lot of balls.
I don't think.

I'd probably try to go off the 7 ball and ferry boat across the table and back to get near the same spot.
Anyway again "tough spot" :eek:
Rod.

I think I understand where the other ball is a little better now. If the carom wasn't available I agree with Androd's option for an intentional, I would leave him exactly straight in with the other ball and their pocket. -->Focusing on being frozen to the rail. This would be worth a scratch from my perspective.

Dud
 

jazznpool

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I'm interested in hearing from others who played elite 1pkt players.... did you change your strategy knowing if you leave an open bank/shot, you pay for it?
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

IMO, it's a mistake to get too timid if the opportunity/ reward is there no matter who the opponent is.

Martin
 

androd

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I'm interested in hearing from others who played elite 1pkt players.... did you change your strategy knowing if you leave an open bank/shot, you pay for it?

I know now you MUST get ball spots....otherwise, you auto-lose with intentionals...

I'm more likely to take a shot getting weight than giving it. Although there isn't much difference in my play.
Rod
P.S. If you're getting spotted taking a scratch is worse. :eek:
 

tylerdurden

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Lou...the tangent took me above a ball that is out of the pic to the right. Bad perspective.


Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

If you are frozen, the tangent line will be going some whacky place though, somewhere far "north" of what the tangent line dictates. Try it.
 

Scrzbill

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You say theres a ball up table on his side. Bank the ball into the side. Or the corner. You have a huge spot, dont concentrate on just the one hole. Get an Ipad so you can take larger pictures.
 

SJDinPHX

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Spidey,

Both Lou and Rod pointed out the obvious shot, 95% of all 'decent' one pocket player's would have taken..If there is a ball to the right, (out of the picture) could you not have used that ball to bury him in the stack ? That is where you need to put him, and it looks VERY feasable to me, (us)

Not trying to insult you, but I think this guy has you completely bamboozled..Regardless, of how good HE plays, if you are going to have any chance at all, you HAVE to recognize those shots, when they are presented..That is one pocket 101 !...
You say he plays 'better' than Darren A., or Chris G...Theres not too many people in that elite group, as it would take someone like Scott,
or Efren to handle him,..And even then, he still may win a short tournament race. (So can Lou, if he gets a few real good rolls.:p)

Unless you are playing funsies, I strongly suggest you ask for a huge spot..Especially if he plays as good as you described..There is a lot of difference, between a 'real good' player, and a 'champion', as you are finding out..

I have seen a few of your videos, and I can see that you have a good stroke, at 14.1 or 9 ball..(never seen you play 1P)...But, unless he's the only guy in town..Maybe you could find a little softer spot, to work on your one pocket game..:eek: ;)

Good Luck...
 
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Dudley

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You say theres a ball up table on his side. Bank the ball into the side. Or the corner. You have a huge spot, dont concentrate on just the one hole. Get an Ipad so you can take larger pictures.

From my understanding of the layout he's hooked on the other ball on the table by being froze to the 7.

Dud
 

spiderwebcomm

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Spidey,

Both Lou and Rod pointed out the obvious shot, 95% of all 'decent' one pocket player's would have taken..If there is a ball to the right, (out of the picture) could you not have used that ball to bury him in the stack ? That is where you need to put him, and it looks VERY feasable to me, (us)

Not trying to insult you, but I think this guy has you completely bamboozled..Regardless, of how good HE plays, if you are going to have any chance at all, you HAVE to recognize those shots, when they are presented..That is one pocket 101 !...
You say he plays 'better' than Darren A., or Chris G...Theres not too many people in that elite group, as it would take someone like Scott,
or Efren to handle him,..And even then, he still may win a short tournament race. (So can Lou, if he gets a few real good rolls.:p)

Unless you are playing funsies, I strongly suggest you ask for a huge spot..Especially if he plays as good as you described..There is a lot of difference, between a 'real good' player, and a 'champion', as you are finding out..

I have seen a few of your videos, and I can see that you have a good stroke, at 14.1 or 9 ball..(never seen you play 1P)...But, unless he's the only guy in town..Maybe you could find a little softer spot, to work on your one pocket game..:eek: ;)

Good Luck...

You prob didn't read the earlier post of mine. I mentioned he had a ball to the right (either on or just off the rail) that was below the tangent line from the ball kissing the CB. I felt if I went right, I'd either run into it (if I dug into the 7 ball) or I'd go high of it. The ball was parallel with the 5 (or close). I think if you do dig into the 7 to force it below the tangent, you risk hitting the bottom half of the impeding ball and sending the CB way low.

To say that 95% of players would do what you wrote is really pushing it, considering I'm missing 1/2 of the table from the photo--- unless 95% of one pocket players are clairvoyant. I've never said I'm a GREAT one pocket player; however, just assume I'm in the top 95th percentile with this game (for purposes of this discussion). If I could have buried him in EITHER direction, I would have.

Bamboozled isn't the word. He frankly shot my ever-loving nuts in. That didn't bamboozle me; although I did admit I shot a few shots out of character because I started to get more aggressive when the conservative approach wasn't working.

In conclusion, OF COURSE I need a huge spot w/ a HOF player (alert the press on that one). Just like everyone around my level needs the planet with a player of that caliber.
 

lfigueroa

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Lou...the tangent took me above a ball that is out of the pic to the right. Bad perspective.

The angle was a hair much.

I prob could have sent the CB into the kitchen and attempt to freeze it and concede a shot to his ball to the right, but he clicked a few in already...so I was gun shy.

My initial thought was to take an intentional and protect ny balls, but I was 0 for "a lot" with that move at that point. Since I couldn't freeze to the rack, I couldn't guarantee to not leave something.

My CB control can't compete with his...it's taking a knife to a gun fight. Didn't you play Eff in one hole? Can you shed light on how that firepower affected your strategy, if at all?

I felt every intentional hurt me a lot more.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


Screw the tangent line. If the ball is froze, shoot through it to get the right line, or jack a bit more and go off the ball and masse it back to the cluster.

In the Efren match I played more aggressively than I might have against mere mortals. In particular, if he left a bank I went for it. It happen to pay off that day because I made like almost every bank I shot at.

#####
This is from a trip report from, I think, the 2000 US Open 1pocket Tournament, up in Kalamazoo, picking it up on day two of the event.

(insert flashback music):

Saturday morning I headed over to the Playground and just tried to get my mind set before my match with, arguably, the greatest all around pool player of all time. When I got to the tournament room, the line was: you could bet either way, whether I'd get to one. I decided that that's what I'd shoot for: to take one game off Efren Reyes. I'd told AllenB, the night before, that I would really appreciate it if he could snap a photo of me lagging with Efren, to prove to future generations that this match had actually taken place. Alan said no problem, and, a man of his word, was there setup in time with his camera and tripod to capture the moment and has already sent me the photo.

Well, we were put on table two, right in front of the largest section of bleachers and they were packed. Everyone wanted to see Efren play. I was just along for the ride. I put down a good lag, but Efren put the ball within an inch of the rail. I looked at my watch. It was one o'clock.

The first game did not go well, for me. He broke the balls well, and I was under the gun the entire game. When he didn't have a shot, he'd gently spin the cue ball one or two rails and snuggle it up against a ball. I, and the crowd, laughed out loud at the positions he'd put me in. I lost the first game 8-0. It was while I was racking the balls to break (it was a rack your own tournament) that the dawning realization came upon me that it was quite possible that, not only could I lose the match 4-0, I could, conceivably: lose the match against a player of this caliber WITHOUT SCORING A SINGLE BALL. Oh, the humiliation. What do you tell the guys back at the pool hall? What will everyone back on RSB think? That you got a chance to play Efren Reyes and didn't score a single ball!!?? Suddenly, not only did my goal of winning one game seem like the only way to maintain my dignity and salvage the honor of RSB, but it also seemed a goal that was now, on further reflection, very, very far away.

I broke well the second game. Shortly after the break, he left me frozen on the side rail just above my pocket. I looked at the rack for a long time. There was an unfrozen three ball combination that just might go. But the only way to hit it right was to send the cue ball into a fourth ball and then have it carom into the third ball in the combination chain. I'd have to hit it at warp speed to get enough energy on the shot to get the last ball in the combination to the pocket. If it didn't go, I was toast, because the stack was going to explode.

IMO, one of the more beautiful shots in pool is when a cluster of balls is stuck hard and the object ball eventually emerges from the stack and slowly begins marching towards it's assigned pocket. Despite shooting with brio, the two ball virtually crawled towards it's destination with total mayhem all around it. As I watched the shot, it seemed as if all the other object balls, and the cue ball, were moving and every single one of them wanted to kiss out the two ball. But somehow it made it safe and sound to its destination. The ball dropped. The crowd burst into applause.

Still, the balls were spread too wide for me to get out. As the game progressed, we got to the point at which I needed two and Efren needed one. And then, something began to become apparent to me, and then to everyone in the stands, and eventually to Efren: Lou was banking well today. Real well. Well, actually, I started banking like god.

Efren kissed into a shot and sold out the last two balls. A modest cut shot with moderately difficult position on the out ball. I missed. All I could hear in the stands were muttered, "Well, he had a chance..." A few innings later, I missed a thin hit to play safe and had to spot a ball. Now I needed three. But then it happened. I banked three and out to take the second game. The monkey was off my back.

Efren took the next game. Twice he tied me up so bad that my only option was to kick three rails and then two rails for an intentional scratch. But I pulled both of them off. The crowd started applauding my shots and the increasingly ridiculous accuracy and consistency of my bank shots.

I took the fourth game 8-0 to tie it up at 2-2. The fifth game we went down to the last three balls, all down table on the side rail just below the side pocket on his side. I needed all three and went for the home run: a carom and combination bank that would send two towards my hole and the third up table to my side. The shot went kaablewwweee, and left Efren straight in. Nonetheless, my banks continued to go, as if on wires.

The last game was another battle, but he was just too strong. I lose 4-2. I looked at my watch, it was 3:30. I had just wrestled with Efren Reyes, in a race to four, for two and a half hours and taken two games off him. I swear I'm not making this up, but during the match Buddy Hall was playing on one side of us, Steve Cook on the other, and during the course of the match I got at least six rounds of applause from the crowd for my bank shots. There was not one round of applause for Hall, Cook, or Reyes. Buddy, in particular, kept looking over wondering what the hell was going on.

As I shook Efren's hand after the match, he said smiling in the high clipped accent he has, "Louis bank good. Miss straight in." That about summed it up.
#####

Just as a footnote to that story, the week before the tournament I was showing a local guy how to shoot the twist back bank where the CB is in the jaws of your pocket and the OB is a few inches down and near the end rail. So after I explain he asks, "Do you shoot this shoot for the money?" And I go, "Oh sure. You hit it right and it has to go." Well, one week later I've drawn Efren and that exact shot comes up and I'm staring at the shot, chalking my cue, stalling, and laughing to myself thinking, "Well, how does it look now, asshole, against Efren and in front of a couple hundred people, at the US Open?" So I made myself shoot it and it went and everyone applauded.

And, just to apply the moral of that story to your situation: "shooting a bit more aggressive" isn't limited to shooting balls in. It also applies to your safety play too. I think you had to shoot to freeze him up against the cluster

Lou Figueroa
 
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gulfportdoc

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Great story, Lou. An experience like that can provide a confidence lift for the times when a guy needs something to draw on when he's feeling kinda puny. You've usually played well against top players. Perhaps that's part of the reason.:)

Doc
 
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