The Truth About The Beard & Chicago Players

OldSchool

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Sep 10, 2008
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You know, I started to make this post more then once over the last year or so but stopped every time because I like the Beard. But finally, I can’t take it anymore. Like a couple of other well known posters on here, I just hate bs, extreme bragging, and the spreading of misinformation. As in the bs posted by some on here and the naïve fan boy posts by others. And this recent bs love fest with the Beard was the last straw. Sorry Beard, I like you, and you’re a great character of the pool world, but it’s time for the truth. But Beard, I will do you the favor of only posting this over here in our own little world, I won’t post it over at a azbilliards --- I won’t smarten up your fanboys & suckers over there.

The thing is, I’m in a very unique position on this forum. Because I am the only person on here who knows exactly what speed Artie, the Beard, and the rest of the Chicago players played, while also having no bias, alliance with anyone, or axe to grind, and will post the truth. Some might not believe that, but that‘s their choice. Other than myself, there are three groups of people on here -- The large group that never saw Artie and the Beard play in their prime, and don’t know, and the Chicago gang, who being close friends all stick up for each other, wherein the credibility of what they say about each other is very suspect --- And a couple of old time top players who have certain reasons to not speak the exact truth. As I said before, I traveled around the Midwest regularly throughout the 60’s and 70’s and along with being in Cincinnati watching the Spaeth’s play, Detroit watching Red play, St. Louis watching Louie play, and more, I was in Chicago
a lot, and saw Artie, the Beard, and all of the lesser known Chicago players play many, many times. Now there are some who are naïve and might say, hey, Billy Incardona and Jay Helfert can also tell truly of the Chicago players. And Billy and Jay have previously posted such things, but ahem, the truth is, you think they’re going to post what they really think and/or
know, when there’s money to be made -- business dealings/gambling to be involved in, and also they are all cozied up together heartily recommending and selling eachother’s books and dvd’s, wink, wink.

Now speaking of naïve, the King of the naïve is Terry Ardeno. He posted in this thread, that he’s “never known the Beard to lie, ever!” -- I fought not to spit my coffee out all over my keyboard reading that. My wife’s best friend is a social worker, and she tells a lie -- but Terry Ardeno thinks an old school pool hustler wouldn’t lie for Gods sake! Now let me say that Terry Ardeno is an extremely nice guy and a great supporter of pool. But, with that said, his sappy hero worship of top pool players, particularly the older players, and his gullibility in believing everything they say, is not a pretty sight.


" Originally Posted by newfosgatesucks
None other than Tony "FARGO" Ferguson. While playin with him I asked him about the Beard. He said, "Who?" I said , 'Fred Bentivegna, from Chicago".

Well, I got a great story. Tony proceeded to tell me they played banks on a 5x10 in Chicago, years ago. He said they played to 4 games, and Freddy beat him 4 in a row. Tony went on to say, with aggrevated demeanor, that he had the worst stroke on earth, and just couldn't understand how Freddy could make one ball - much less 8.lol....I asked if they played a second set--he promptly replied NO. You could tell Tony didn't like it. He didn't
ike it so much that He was jarred years later just recounting it. But wait a minute - This is FARGO! FARGO! He could be backed or put up and go get another dose anytime he wanted - So I askd him---"Well Tony, How'd you do with hi the next time? " I EXPECTED to hear a great story, but no.

"There was no second time. We never matched up again, in all of these years."

WHY WHY WHY ??????? Would Tony Fargo not want to play Banks with Freddie? IDK, but I assure you, just as sure as I sit here, he was SHAKEN about the last time they played. So badly it showed YEARS LATER. Im not saying anything above that. Fargo himself said he doesn't like it. And said HE (FARGO!) Pulled up!.

Fred, you have nothing to prove to me. Same goes for Artie. I'd just like to have dinner and a nite at the pool room with either of you. I dont care how cold and wet it is. I'm used to playing in a boiler room.
Furthermore, I accept your word as the gospel truth. "

Now that was some real bs, posted by this fan boy newfosgatesucks --- Tony ‘Fargo’ Ferguson badly shaken from playing the Beard banks? Now I spit up my coffee again laughing. Anybody who knows hardcore Tony Fargo knows that this is a joke. And I know personally that what this kid posted is bs. And here’s why. You posted that Tony supposedly told you they played that one time? Oh really? Well it just so happens that I was in Chicago for the weekend about 25 years ago. The action at that time was at the Billiard Café --- there was good action there. That weekend that I was there you know who came to town? Tony Fargo. And he wasn’t “shaking” when he came in. And he played the Beard banks. And. They didn’t play even, Tony spotted the Beard 2 balls. Also, this is some truth opposed to what the Beard has posted about his playing Fargo.

First though, let me rightfully compliment the Beard. His knowledge of banks and bank pool is as good as it gets, and his books and dvd’s are well worth having if you have any interest in banks and bank pool. Also his knowledge as a historian of the last 45 years of pool players and pool action is exceptional.

So how good did the Beard actually play back in the day? In a nutshell --- In his prime, at his best, The Beard played close to top speed in banks, and mid shortstop speed in one pocket --- a fairly strong speed.

As the Beard has said, he could beat top speed 9ball and straight pool players playing banks --- yes this is true, if, they didn’t play banks. But contrary to what he says, from a Bugs or an Eddie Taylor, the Beard needed 2 balls. And also, he most definitely needed a little weight from top bankers like Fargo, Spaeth, Truman, and Donnie Anderson.

The Beard’s one pocket game was about 10-8 under his bank game. Playing one pocket, the Beard needed 2-3 balls from the very best players such as a Ronnie Allen, Eddie Kelly, Jersey Red, or Artie.

As for the Beard's beat list. For now, without going into detail, I'll just say this --- It's very deceptive.

And here’s some final proof for you regarding the Beard‘s one pocket speed, courtesy of Artie. First let me say that other than how Artie brags about his own “correct perfect” game, he actually mostly tells the truth --- he’s not a bs’er. With that said. All of you longtime members on here of course remember the big fight on here between Artie and the Beard that happened a couple of years ago. Well in one of those posts by Artie, regarding he and the Beard playing each other down in Bensinger’s when both were in their
prime, he mockingly said to the Beard “Yeah I always gave you 10-8 and 10-8 and the breaks and busted you like that on a regular basis --- your wife used to call me and ask me to please stop playing you” Artie wasn’t lying about that. That was the truth. Compute the Beard's speed from that.


I'll maybe write some truth regarding Artie and "Mr. 3cushion" another time.

I won't be responding too often on this thread, I'm too busy hacking up the golf course and playing with my six grandkids.

Old School
 
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CaliRed

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Dec 16, 2008
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1,963
I think if people really put the whole Chicago thing in perspective, it would get a lot harder to get worked up about it.

The reality is this......

There are a good 4-8 people here that are from Chicago, that post with different degrees of regularity.

Chicago has had a long and storied past when it comes to the pool world.

Pool players are not normally shy people

People that are long time participants of the Chicago Scene are going to be slanted towards their players and their pool rooms and their action. That's only natural and in no way unexpected.

These 4-8 people that post here, appear to all get along (for the most part):D so therefore, it is only natural for them to appear in threads that concern Chicago and voice their opinion. This can appear to have a "Chicago Swarm" effect.

My belief is that if we had 5 or 6 Detroit players that were not shy and they all got along and they all were very proud of the Detroit scene, the players and the action (which how can they NOT?:D ) we would have the same thing happening. It would seem like Detroit was the Pool Capital of the world and there would be a Artie figure there and a Freddy character.

Same thing in Dallas or "insert city here", or some other hot bed of pool action where there was a lot of action and a lot of good players hanging around for a good many years.

I'm like to think I'm a smart enough guy and that the majority of us here are smart enough guys, to put things in perspective and just relax and enjoy the stories. It bothers some here, more than others, because of their competitive spirit and the fact they knew and played a lot of the people that are being talked about and they were around during the time frame in question.

Here's some other things I learned all by myself........

1. Freddy would NEVER tell a lie or even distort the truth one bit, would never leave out a fact, always tells the whole story even if it makes him look bad doing it.

2. Dick has never used Freddy's tshirt for his doggie bedding. He actually wears his Banking with the Beard tshirts to church.

3. androd is not up there in years... he's about 33 years old and has some kind of mental deficiency that makes him want to pretend he's a 75 year old man with a dog. Forgot what they call that

4. Cowboy Dennis believes in luck... Don't let him fool ya... He hangs out at all those bizarres and thrift shops, looking for the latest "Lucky Thing". He's got rabbits' feet... chicken feet, fortune cookies and rat testicles in his pockets at all times.

See, I can figure out stuff all on my own. I don't need anyone to spell it out for me. I can read between the lines and pick out how much is probably fiction or non fiction.

Anyways, I got to go practice at the hottest pool mecca in the past 50 some years... It's in the MIdwest and it's in Omaha. :eek:

Fact is.. I like all the guys here and it does sound a lot like a pool hall in here, which is nice!
 

Terry Ardeno

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Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
467
OldSchool said:
You know, I started to make this post more then once over the last year or so but stopped every time because I like the Beard. But finally, I can’t take it anymore. Like a couple of other well known posters on here, I just hate bs, extreme bragging, and the spreading of misinformation. As in the bs posted by some on here and the naïve fan boy posts by others. And this recent bs love fest with the Beard was the last straw. Sorry Beard, I like you, and you’re a great character of the pool world, but it’s time for the truth. But Beard, I will do you the favor of only posting this over here in our own little world, I won’t post it over at a azbilliards --- I won’t smarten up your fanboys & suckers over there.

The thing is, I’m in a very unique position on this forum. Because I am the only person on here who knows exactly what speed Artie, the Beard, and the rest of the Chicago players played, while also having no bias, alliance with anyone, or axe to grind, and will post the truth. Some might not believe that, but that‘s their choice. Other than myself, there are three groups of people on here -- The large group that never saw Artie and the Beard play in their prime, and don’t know, and the Chicago gang, who being close friends all stick up for each other, wherein the credibility of what they say about each other is very suspect --- And a couple of old time top players who have certain reasons to not speak the exact truth. As I said before, I traveled around the Midwest regularly throughout the 60’s and 70’s and along with being in Cincinnati watching the Spaeth’s play, Detroit watching Red play, St. Louis watching Louie play, and more, I was in Chicago
a lot, and saw Artie, the Beard, and all of the lesser known Chicago players play many, many times. Now there are some who are naïve and might say, hey, Billy Incardona and Jay Helfert can also tell truly of the Chicago players. And Billy and Jay have previously posted such things, but ahem, the truth is, you think they’re going to post what they really think and/or
know, when there’s money to be made -- business dealings/gambling to be involved in, and also they are all cozied up together heartily recommending each other’s books and dvd’s, wink, wink.

Now speaking of naïve, the King of the naïve is Terry Ardeno. He posted in this thread, that he’s “never known the Beard to lie, ever!” -- I fought not to spit my coffee out all over my keyboard reading that. My wife’s best friend is a social worker, and she tells a lie -- but Terry Ardeno thinks an old school pool hustler wouldn’t lie for Gods sake! Now let me say that Terry Ardeno is an extremely nice guy and a great supporter of pool. But, with that said, his sappy hero worship of top pool players, particularly the older players, and his gullibility in believing everything they say, is not a pretty sight.
Old School

Old School,
You are too much! :D

When I was reading your post, I was shaking my head (back and forth, not up & down) the whole time. I knew THIS post was going to generate all kinds of replies.

Imagine my chagrin and surprise when I got to the part about ME! :eek:

Oh man, you got it half right, at least according to me. I (with my hand over my heart) do really believe that Fredrick "The Beard" Bentivegna has never ever "lied" on here or over at AZB. Not even once. Has he stretched things just a little, embellished things some, exagerrated a teeny-eeny bit every now & again? Of course he has. But he never out and out LIED! I'll take a polygraph that I ain't lying when I write that the Beard don't lie, and I'm not lying! :D I wouldn't tell you any half truths unless they were completely accurate!

Now my FAVORITE part...."the King of the naïve is Terry Ardeno"......"his sappy hero worship of top pool players, particularly the older players, and his gullibility in believing everything they say, is not a pretty sight."

"Sappy hero worship"....I'm being real serious here, I'm trying to keep a straight face typing here but my cheeks are getting a little sore from being in a big smile for so long. I could SMEAR some of the men who post here and at AZB. "Naive"...? I know enough to know that every one of us who posts or lives anywhere has skeltons and dirt on our resume'. Me & you included. But as far as I'm concerned, I'm very proud to have never disrespected Grady, Billy, SJD or Fred. Or any of our other members as well. As far as "hero worship", yea, I really do like certain players. There are an equal amount of players who I can't stand. Those are the ones I never kid around with or talk good about. I have about 20-25 players over the years who I think the world of.
I certainly have no reason to ask any of them, privately or publically, about any of the nasty things I sometimes here about them. Their private life is NONE OF MY BUSINESS. Here & at AZB, it's about pool, matching up, pool history and good natured ribbing, both ways.

What do you want us to do here? Post questions on every dirty thing we've heard that our pool "heros" have ever done? For what reason? To have Steve shut this place down?

"Hero worship"....let's talk about this real quick. As a Christian, I can really only worship God. I would never hold anyone, even my wife or kids, up equal with or especially above, God.

I've seen great hockey or football pro's in person at the store or around town and it means absolutely nothing to me. If I saw Billy, Grady, Fred, SJD, Jay, Earl, Shannon Daulton, etc. in town, I would offer to buy them dinner. If they lived next door, I might even mow their lawn every once in a while. That's just how I treat my friends and family.

I once spent a 4 hour long supper with Grady. Non stop pool talk and laughs.
Why should I not respect him? He was just super with me! Fred and me have BS'ed on the phone and back & forth thru e-mails for several years now. He always makes me laugh. He can't be my friend? Billy, I just can't say enough good about him. Jay Helfert? Everybody in pool loves Jay! The guy is always just a phone call away from anything you need or want to discuss. SJ Dick, before he really even knew me, did a favor for me that most of my own family would never have considered doing! He mailed me something, without me even asking him, that is of great value. I can't be proud that we're buds?

How exactly do you want us to treat our friends? Is this an indication of how you treat any friends YOU may have?

I'm perfectly content, 100% satisfied, being who I am and acting as I do here and at AZB. I can't fake to hate somebody when I don't! So don't expect any big or little changes in how I address Sir Grady, Sir Billy, Sir Duckster or Sir Fred. They have all EARNED the respect I have for them by how they have treated me over the years. I ain't going to be a jerk to any of them just because you want me to. Hope that don't offend you none.

Here's another fact that only a few people know. Every 6 months, since I was about 14 or so, I have hand written a list of my top 10 favorite active pool players. It's since expanaded to my top 50 favorite players. Out of the hundreds and hundreds (thousands?) of players world wide, I have a hard time coming up with numbers 35 or so to 50. Top 15 guys, man! I really do like them guys a lot! And Fong Pang Chao has been in my top 3 for going on 10 years now. If I ever run into him anywhere, be sure I'll want a photo with him for my wall of fame in my basement poolroom. On it's walls hang nice pics of my favorite pro players. There not one NFL, MLB, NASCAR, NBA or NHL player's photo anywhere in my house. But it does have many photos of my, my.....my HEROS from pooldom!:D

For now, I have nothing more that I can think of to add. Let me think a minute....nope, that about it. I'll just wait to see what Fred has to say about your post.
 

usblues

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Oct 1, 2007
Messages
1,320
Cleveland Williams and 1 hit wonders....

Cleveland Williams and 1 hit wonders....

I thought Omaha was a suburb of Cleveland........I went to the Lou Reed school of thoughts and insights while passing through one day.And you know what he says.I dont even believe that picture from Grady with Willie in the Detroit hall and all them frowning black faces.I might believe Titanic and Fats were the decendants of the Medicine men shows from the Civil war days.The truth is everybody believes what they want to.I'm picking Freddie,the Stones and Mr Smith& Wesson in a close race over the Beatles,Lucky Strikes and anybody from East of the Big Muddy.Now back to my Batman comics.........
 

Terry Ardeno

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Nov 11, 2004
Messages
467
Ps

Ps

Old School,

I do want to say one more thing to you. I imagine it was kind of hard for you to write that post. But I also think it took some balls to actually pen it and then hit send. So, I gotta respect you some for having cajones.

Also, this post of yours in no way hurts my feelings or anything like that. I know I can come off like an attorney for some of these great champions, but when all is said & done, they're big enough boys to handle things themselves.

Even though I got no clue as to who you really are, I do think you know a little bit about pool and some of it's players.

And no, that doesn't mean I'm asking for an autographed photo to hang on my "wall of fame" at home! :D

Warmest regards my friend!
 

fred bentivegna

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Feb 2, 2005
Messages
6,690
The Administration needs you and all your "truth"

The Administration needs you and all your "truth"

OldSchool said:
You know, I started to make this post more then once over the last year or so but stopped every time because I like the Beard. But finally, I can’t take it anymore. ..As in the bs posted by some on here and the naïve fan boy posts by others. And this recent bs love fest with the Beard was the last straw. Sorry Beard, I like you, and you’re a great character of the pool world, but it’s time for the truth. But Beard, I will do you the favor of only posting this over here in our own little world, I won’t post it over at a azbilliards --- I won’t smarten up your fanboys & suckers over there.

"Sir, I am an open book. I dont need you to do me any favors. I just wonder how Terry Ardeno and Newfosgatesucks likes being called fanboys and suckers?"

.. because I am the only person on here who knows exactly what speed Artie, the Beard, and the rest of the Chicago players played, while having no bias, ...axe to grind, and will post the truth.

Since for most of my career, even I never knew exactly what speed I played, I am amazed at someone who I dont even know being fortunate enough to have that insight.

.. Now there are some who are naïve and might say, hey, Billy Incardona and Jay Helfert can also tell truly of the Chicago players. And Billy and Jay have previously posted such things, but ahem, the truth is, you think they’re going to post what they really think and/or
know, when there’s money to be made -- business dealings/gambling to be involved in, and also they are all cozied up together heartily recommending and selling eachother’s books and dvd’s, wink, wink.

"Do you really think Billy Incardona needs me to make a game? Wink, wink."

Now speaking of naïve, the King of the naïve is Terry Ardeno. He posted in this thread, that he’s “never known the Beard to lie, ever!” -...but Terry Ardeno thinks an old school pool hustler wouldn’t lie for Gods sake! Now let me say that Terry Ardeno is an extremely nice guy and a great supporter of pool. But, with that said, his sappy hero worship of top pool players, particularly the older players, and his gullibility in believing everything they say, is not a pretty sight.


" Originally Posted by newfosgatesucks
While playin with Tony FargoI asked about the Beard. He said,

Well, I got a great story. Tony proceeded to tell me they played banks on a 5x10 in Chicago, years ago. He said they played to 4 games, and Freddy beat him 4 in a row. Tony went on to say, with aggrevated demeanor, that he had the worst stroke on earth, and just couldn't understand how Freddy could make one ball - much less 8.lol....I asked if they played a second set--he promptly replied NO. You could tell Tony didn't like it. He didn't
ike it so much that He was jarred years later just recounting it. But wait a minute - This is FARGO! FARGO! He could be backed or put up and go get another dose anytime he wanted - So I askd him---"Well Tony, How'd you do with hi the next time? " I EXPECTED to hear a great story, but no.

"There was no second time. We never matched up again, in all of these years."
...Furthermore, I accept your word as the gospel truth. "

Now that was some real bs, posted by this fan boy newfosgatesucks --- Tony ‘Fargo’ Ferguson badly shaken from playing the Beard banks? Now I spit up my coffee again laughing. Anybody who knows hardcore Tony Fargo knows that this is a joke. And I know personally that what this kid posted is bs. And here’s why. You posted that Tony supposedly told you they played that one time? Oh really? Well it just so happens that I was in Chicago for the weekend about 25 years ago. The action at that time was at the Billiard Café --- there was good action there. That weekend that I was there you know who came to town? Tony Fargo. And he wasn’t “shaking” when he came in. And he played the Beard banks. And. They didn’t play even, Tony spotted the Beard 2 balls. Also, this is some truth opposed to what the Beard has posted about his playing Fargo.

You start off demeaning Newfosgatesucks, who I dont know from Adam. Why would he lie for me? Why are your words law and his fantasy? Firstly, you are right, I did play Fargo at the Billiard Cafe in the 90s -not 25 yrs ago, and he did spot me. I was pretty good over the hill by then, so I took a spot from Tony. The game was 8 to 7 pal, not 10 to 8, and you failed to mention that I won. But. But. That, my friend, was the SECOND TIME we played. The time I said I won even, was the time that Newfosgatesucks was talking about. That game ocurred at BENSINGERS. That was where they had 5 x 10s pal, the table that Newfosgatesucks was referring to. The Cafe had 4 1/2 x 9 gold crowns! (They had a 5 x 10 for about a month but nobody would play on it)[/I] Truthfully, I had forgotten when and where Tony and I had played the first time until NFGsucks brought it back up. If you want to accuse me of leaving out the spot match, I'm guilty. But I, like so many others, will relate the stories that put ourselves in the best light. Me especially, because my game ranged from extreme highs to extreme lows. In the course of about 10 months Grady Mathews gave me 9 to 7 in Dayton, next came to the my joint, The 4 B's Club and I broke him playing even (he mentions that stop in his book), we next played in Milwaukee, and the game went from 8 to 7 to 11 to 7 and I still lost. Two months later he came to the Billiard Cafe and he played me 9 to 8 on his break and lost.



First though, let me rightfully compliment the Beard. His knowledge of banks and bank pool is as good as it gets, and his books and dvd’s are well worth having if you have any interest in banks and bank pool. Also his knowledge as a historian of the last 45 years of pool players and pool action is exceptional.

So how good did the Beard actually play back in the day? In a nutshell --- In his prime, at his best, The Beard played close to top speed in banks, and mid shortstop speed in one pocket --- a fairly strong speed.

As the Beard has said, he could beat top speed 9ball and straight pool players playing banks --- yes this is true, if, they didn’t play banks. But contrary to what he says, from a Bugs or an Eddie Taylor, the Beard needed 2 balls.

I never got two balls from Bugs. Never. You might be right about Eddie Taylor, but that aint no shame.

And also, he most definitely needed a little weight from top bankers like Fargo, Spaeth, Truman, and Donnie Anderson.

Truman, I always say that I ducked him. Gary and I never did much gambling, since I knew him from a little kid. Donnie Anderson as I have stated before, went for $400 at Bensingers for $50 a game the first time we played.


The Beard’s one pocket game was about 10-8 under his bank game. Playing one pocket, the Beard needed 2-3 balls from the very best players such as a Ronnie Allen, Eddie Kelly, Jersey Red, or Artie.

Were you also at the Billiard Cafe when Larry Swartz staked Ronnie Allen to give me 10 to 8 playing 1pkt for $200 a game, and I won eleven games in a row? I believe Ronnie and Larry are both alive -- as is Tony Fargo.


As for the Beard's beat list. For now, without going into detail, I'll just say this --- It's very deceptive.

Point to something that didnt happen please.

And here’s some final proof for you regarding the Beard‘s one pocket speed, courtesy of Artie. First let me say that other than how Artie brags about his own “correct perfect” game, he actually mostly tells the truth --- he’s not a bs’er. With that said. All of you longtime members on here of course remember the big fight on here between Artie and the Beard that happened a couple of years ago. Well in one of those posts by Artie, regarding he and the Beard playing each other down in Bensinger’s when both were in their
prime, he mockingly said to the Beard “Yeah I always gave you 10-8 and 10-8 and the breaks and busted you like that on a regular basis --- your wife used to call me and ask me to please stop playing you” Artie wasn’t lying about that. That was the truth.

"Bullsh*t, total Bullsh*t. How the f*ck do you know who is lying? Did you personally see Artie giving me 10 to 8 and the break? He and I played for years, the game was either even, 8 to 7 or 9 to 8. I would win one out of every 7 or 8 outings. During our beef, Artie told plenty of lies -- as he is wont to do in an argument. Did you also know that he was dead wrong about what we were arguing about? Grady who was playing Artie at the time, and T R MacIntosh, who was staking Grady, both verify my side of the story.

Were you on the other line when my "wife" begged Artie to show me mercy?
You know us so well, did you also know that he and I seldom played for more than $10? A lot of $5's, some $3's and once a millinium a set for a $100. Was that enough to cause my wife to beg for mercy?

Compute the Beard's speed from that.


I'll maybe write some truth regarding Artie and "Mr. 3cushion" another time.

I won't be responding too often on this thread, I'm too busy hacking up the golf course and playing with my six grandkids.

Old School
To say that you know just enough about things to get yourself in trouble is giving you way too much credit.
You have included just bits and pieces of reality that to somebody that doesnt know the situation better than you can be very impressive.
I am going out of town tomorrow to visit Brooklyn Jimmy so I will be unable to defend myself for the next few days. I will try and get it all in with just one pop.

Beard

Did anybody hire you to do this?
 
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fred bentivegna

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Feb 2, 2005
Messages
6,690
Judge not, yest ye be judged

Judge not, yest ye be judged

Let's see, I have opened myself up to be judged on 2 different forums and thousands of players who have access to thousands more, many of them champions. Who judges Oldschoolpool? Not even one person? Not one? And who elected him to the SCOTUS of pool? In any election, the first thing you must do is submit your name and address in order to qualify.

I have never submitted to anyones opinion of my game. I harbor my own views. If anyone had an opinion that I disagreed with, especially if it was demeaning, I would force him to BET that he was right.

Beard

I have had more than my share of lowlights in my career where I dogged it, and took some terrible thrashings, but no one is going to take away my highlights, those times when I played proudly.
 

timdog24

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Feb 28, 2009
Messages
182
Old School,... who cares what a guy's speed was 30 f'n years ago?! I don't think anyone on here ever has mistaken the Beard for Efren (although he did teach Effie how to play one hole:p ). The guy played a game that we all love for a living most of his life. That's pretty impressive to me. And his book/dvds on banks are second to none. He also is awfully good at telling pool stories and giving us "kids" a better picture of what the pool scene was like back then. So what if his beat list is a little silly? It reminds me of an ex-ballplayer who wants to tell you who he's hit homers off of but conveniently not how many times he struck out. Nothing wrong with that.
I just don't get why it's important for you to tell us his "true speed". I tip my cap to anyone that can make a living hitting pool balls, especially if he's not a world beater.
 

gulfportdoc

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Jun 25, 2004
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9,399
OldSchool, most forum readers enjoy a debunking, especially if they suspect there's some truth to it. But in this case, you have very little credibility, simply because you insist on remaining anonymous.

We have seen many posts from guys who come on claiming this and that, but when they make argumentative statements, and don't have the courage to say who they are, they generally are disregarded by most, and the guy generally withers away on the forum.

Who knows what your motives are? Perhaps you just want to blow off some steam. But if you at all want to be taken seriously, you're going to have to reveal your identity.

Art "Doc" Tripp
 

oldspurguy

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Joined
Jun 6, 2007
Messages
337
my two cents

my two cents

Count me as a fan of The Beard. No, I didn't know him, or his pool speed, before finding the pool forums. What I do know is that he is a great writer and shares much great history of pool, as well as his knowlege. That is a wonderful contribution and I thank him for it.

As for the comments re Terry A. Many times I have admired his style of posting and outlook on life. He sets a great example of how to communicate in a polite and positive manner. The world would be a better place if more were like him. If thinking that makes me a 'sucker', well I'll wear the label gladly.
 

OldSchool

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Sep 10, 2008
Messages
224
Terry Ardeno said:
Old School, I'm perfectly content, 100% satisfied, being who I am and acting as I do here and at AZB. I can't fake to hate somebody when I don't! So don't expect any big or little changes in
how I address Sir Grady, Sir Billy, Sir Duckster or Sir Fred. They have all EARNED the respect I have for them by how they have treated me over the years. I ain't going to be a jerk to any of them just because you want me to.

Now you see, this is a perfect example of why I don’t get into ‘back and forth’s’ with people --- because as in this quote by Terry Ardeno, people put words in your mouth that you never remotely said at all. Terry, please show in my post where I said that I want you to "be a jerk to Grady, Billy, San Jose Dick and the Beard"? First of all, I never told you to do anything. Secondly, since I like Grady, Billy, San Jose Dick and Freddie I wouldn’t remotely say something like that. Please, stick with reality.
 

OldSchool

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Sep 10, 2008
Messages
224
fred bentivegna said:
You start off demeaning Newfosgatesucks, who I dont know from Adam. Why would he lie for me? Why are your words law and his fantasy? Firstly, you are right, I did play Fargo at the Billiard Cafe in the 90s -not 25 yrs ago, and he did spot me. I was pretty good over the hill by then, so I took a spot from Tony. The game was 8 to 7 pal, not 10 to 8, and
you failed to mention that I won. But. But. Truthfully, I had forgotten when and where Tony and I had played the first time until NFGsucks brought it back up. If you want to accuse me of leaving out the spot match, I'm guilty.
Never said Newfosgatesucks lied for you --- as you said, I believe he is a fan boy who you don‘t know from Adam. What I said was he is wrong. And he was --- and you confirmed it. As for your game with Tony at the Billiard Café, we’ll have to agree to disagree. I remember it as being in the 80’s --- it was at the old original Billiard Cafe location. And it was a 2 ball spot. And you weren’t over the hill at that time, you were only in your 40’s. And, truthfully, I didn’t say who won, because I don’t remember. I won’t lie, guess or exaggerate on this site. I’ll only speak the truth, if I know it.



fred bentivegna said:
I never got two balls from Bugs. Never. You might be right about Eddie Taylor
Never said you got 2 balls from Bugs --- what I clearly said was, you needed 2balls from Bugs.
 

OldSchool

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Sep 10, 2008
Messages
224
gulfportdoc said:
OldSchool, most forum readers enjoy a debunking, especially if they suspect there's some truth to it. But in this case, you have very little credibility, simply because you insist on remaining anonymous.

Wrong --- several things that I've posted have been proven out to be true.


gulfportdoc said:
But if you at all want to be taken seriously, you're going to have to reveal your identity.

Art "Doc" Tripp

Wrong again.
 

OldSchool

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Sep 10, 2008
Messages
224
Terry Ardeno said:
Old School,

I do want to say one more thing to you. I imagine it was kind of hard for you to write that post.

Even though I got no clue as to who you really are, I do think you know a little bit about pool and some of it's players.

And no, that doesn't mean I'm asking for an autographed photo to hang on my "wall of fame" at home! :D

Warmest regards my friend!

Yes Terry, it was hard to write my post, but as I said, and I'm just like SJD in this respect, I hate bragging and bs, and most especially untrue bragging, that I truly can't bear.

And yes, I know a lot about the last 45 years of pool, and I know a lot of old school players.

And thank you Terry, for this post. And for calling me your friend. Not many on here would do that. But many, like gulfport doc, just react with unfounded prejudice, and choose to 'shoot the messenger'.

Old School
 
Last edited:

newfosgatesucks

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Nov 23, 2006
Messages
858
For the sake of proving nothing to a bunch of people who have nothing to do.....

Did Fred and Tony play?


WHO WON?

DID THEY PLAY AGAIN???

Answer those 3 questions. If Tony told the truth, as Beard seems to confirm, that shows my retelling of a 20 year old story(WHATEVER) as being consistent with the truth.

Tony, as I said, was disturbed at the very mention, and had the attitude of "That hack beat me" but yet admitted to never matching up again. It was as if Tony stood on the "I am Tony Fargo" plateau and being defeated must be an accident. But if so, why not return and play? As I said before, out of RESPECT for Tony, I ended it there. Why? Why would respect keep me from finding more out? BECAUSE HE WAS OBVIOUSLY DISTURBED ABOUT THE WHOLE SITUATION. So I respectfully ended the conversation.

And, as we know, one of Fred's strong suits is laying a situation on someone, using the surroundings, in the Fred/Artie style of TORTURE. And I like thinking about all the sadistic thing they did through the years...lol One way or the other, Fred made it so Tony didn't like it. You tell what you remember, but I saw the look in Tony' eyes, in the way he moved, and his attitude. He hated admitting that defeat. And remembering it.

Old school, I mean no disrespect whatsoever. As memorable of a time as I had with Tony, I am confident in my abilty to recollect what he told me. And I am aware that Tony was better, and they played IN CHICAGO where Freddy was stronger. Under those CIRCUMSTANCES Tony didnt play him any more.

Tony just doesn't like Chicago Sadism. Leave it there I guess?
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Dec 16, 2008
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11,123
I'll not attack or defend either OldSchool or Freddy, but I will make a point that is valid.

I have a very good friend who was in many of the same poolrooms as I was when action was going on. Sometimes it was one of us in action and sometimes it was us viewing the action.

We sometimes have different memories of what happened and who was involved. I might tell a story and he might say "no, that's not what happened, here's how it went". We sometimes get names wrong, games wrong, bets wrong, eyeballers wrong, poolrooms wrong. Most of the time we remember correctly (or so we think), but sometimes we remind each other of the way we remember it and it jogs both of our memories.

Sometimes, a particularly significant event may have happened during a match and it makes it easier to remember but for most of the run-of-the-mill matches that weren't so memorable, we may not remember them correctly the first time around. We've also found that it's easier to remember what happened when we were the ones playing a match instead of being the spectator. Things just seem more important when it happened to you rather than you just seeing it happen and therefore they are most likely to be remembered correctly. Even so we sometimes have to jog each others memories.

Again, just to make the point and not to impugn or support anybodys stories, my own memory has been suspect several times and my good friend has reminded me of how something really happened or vice-versa. I am always surprised at how I can believe something really happened one way and then I am convinced that it happened another way.

At the times 10, 20 or 30 years ago when playing or viewing matches, they didn't seem important enough to remember anything about them. Now it seems they have been indelibly stamped in my mind but time has proven they are sometimes wrongly remembered. That's just me but I suspect that we all sometimes have incorrect memories without necessarily lying about things intentionally.

Dennis
 

fred bentivegna

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6,690
My 40s

My 40s

OldSchool said:
Never said Newfosgatesucks lied for you --- as you said, I believe he is a fan boy who you don‘t know from Adam. What I said was he is wrong. And he was --- and you confirmed it. As for your game with Tony at the Billiard Café, we’ll have to agree to disagree. I remember it as being in the 80’s --- it was at the old original Billiard Cafe location. And it was a 2 ball spot. And you weren’t over the hill at that time, you were only in your 40’s. And, truthfully, I didn’t say who won, because I don’t remember. I won’t lie, guess or exaggerate on this site. I’ll only speak the truth, if I know it.

I am going to make another confession or sorts and leave everything alone for awhile. I am going to NY in a few hours to hang with a genuine pool legend, Brooklyn Jimmy, for a couple days. I am going to avoid computers and just concentrate on betting on Jimmy's horse picks at Saratoga.

80s, 90s? I do know I played Tony the 2nd time after the Chicago Bumps Tournament that Gary Spaeth won. FYI, my over-the-hill began at age 39, in 1979 when I began doing cocaine. The condition worsened in 1982 when I graduated to freebase. My game moved to a series of infrequent highs, and naturally some very lows. I finally packed that sh*t in around the early 90s, but the damage had been done. What many people dont realize is that any type of speed has an ultimate permanent negative effect on vision.

More trivia. I am sure I played Tony one more time between Bensingers and the Billiard Cafe, but I cant remember any of it. I do know I won, but that it wasnt significant, tournament, mini-tournament or for cheap money? We also played for $!0 a game at Chris's billiards a few years ago. Just fooling around.
I'm not even sure if I won or lost. I know we only played a couple of games. I got a spot, forgot what, but I know it wasnt nothing outrageous.

I just didnt like that "mid-level shortstop one pocket player" rating.
A shortstop wouldnt have ever beaten, Cliff Joyner ($1200), Efren Reyes, Jose Parica, Luat, Chris MacDonald ($1500), Cole Dickson (20 games), Mike LeBron ($900), Bug Rucker ($400), Mexican Johnny, Artie (every blue moon or so), Bill Incardona (North Shore on a 5 x 10), Cecil Tugwell, Bernie Swartz, James Brown, etc.
And whether I beat them once or twenty times dont make all that much difference. At least to me.

Beard

You still havent addressed Newfosgatesucks original report that he got from Tony. The one where he and I played at Bensingers and got strummed. Do you think Tony told him that so that he could help my book sales too?
 
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