The Truth About The Beard & Chicago Players

androd

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OldSchool said:
And thank you Terry, for this post. And for calling me your friend. Not many on here would do that. But many, like gulfport doc, just react with unfounded prejudice, and choose to 'shoot the messenger'.

Old School
cowboyDennis said:
At the times 10, 20 or 30 years ago when playing or viewing matches, they didn't seem important enough to remember anything about them. Now it seems they have been indelibly stamped in my mind but time has proven they are sometimes wrongly remembered. That's just me but I suspect that we all sometimes have incorrect memories without necessarily lying about things intentionally.

Dennis
In the end, all we have are our stories. I can still play pool but who knows when that will fade. I prefer to tell stories about people I've known, rather than about myself, but that's just me. I never had anything to do with knockers of any type and they knew better than to come tell me who somebody was. Ergo I have a pretty substantial " beaten by " list. LOL ;)
I agree with Dennis 100%.

As for "But many, like gulfport doc, just react with unfounded prejudice, and choose to 'shoot the messenger." "That's totally out of line, If you're ashamed of who you are or what you've done, then don't post your name. The reaction by Doc is definitely not unfounded when the poster is anonymous.
Rod.
 

wincardona

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??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

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Old School there is no doubt that you've been around and know the skinny on a lot of the old time players, but why do you need to expose these types of things? for what valid reason? You have to realize that you weren't going to win a popularity contest when you posted this. Freddy is not only one of the best and most popular members on one pocket.org. but is very much respected amongst his peers.

Freddy has great credentials, and has a lot to offer, and has offered greatly in his 50 plus years of existance in this sport. Freddy is actually a hero to a lot of people (including me) and if you need to expose someone, please use better descretion.:)
 

usblues

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Www

Www

I dont understand the takedowns either.Theres a wealth of info here that never was available to slow people not to mention stupid that they would never have access to.Its free! Its here! All because of Freddie,Billy,Grady etc. etc.Nobody has a lock on memories and its only getting darker unless your 18 like FL and some of the others who are on their way up.Keep on keepin on,B
 

Deeman

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Whenever I hear someone say, "I have no axe to grind or I hve no dog in this fight", it always seems as if they do.

If any of us, old farts and even some of the younger ones were held to every claim we ever made or staked our lives on our "perfect" memories most would come up short.

This is a pool forum and, fortunately for most of us, not a court of law. If I am gonna call out someone on what they say in a public forum, I hope I would not do it behind a mystery personna, unless I was not so sure of my words or had, perhaps, a small axe to grind. If I hear Doc say something I don't beleive, I'd be able to drive down south a few hours and ask him, man-to-man. If I want to call Grady or Beard or anyone else a liar, I could simply do so in front of them at DCC or in a private note. I don't see the need to wholesale question guys who, even if they may tell their side of a story on occasion, are at least pretty damn open about hwo they are on here.

After all, if you have never shaped your stories for your own benefit, you may just be a saint. Of course, we will never know as the right to face your accuser does not seem to get the same high play as your right to "drive-by" shoot.

Pool players play with the truth, well I never would a thunk it! :)

DeeMan
Dee Sands
Brantley, Alabama
 
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Guest

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wincardona said:
Old School there is no doubt that you've been around and know the skinny on a lot of the old time players, but why do you need to expose these types of things? for what valid reason? You have to realize that you weren't going to win a popularity contest when you posted this. Freddy is not only one of the best and most popular members on one pocket.org. but is very much respected amongst his peers.

Freddy has great credentials, and has a lot to offer, and has offered greatly in his 50 plus years of existance in this sport. Freddy is actually a hero to a lot of people (including me) and if you need to expose someone, please use better descretion.:)
With you on this, Bill.
 

strokerace

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old school your a fool

old school your a fool

Thats right..Old School..youre a fool!!..you cant win here..even though

i agree with you on the bragging thing.. no doubt..and i beleive in telling

the truth as well..but it doesnt solve anything..doesnt do nothing but

create hard feelings..i have known alot of bar players..that were great..

but did they exspand their stories..hell yea..i have done the same..i admit

i hustled..and to the best of my ability i can say over a 5 year span

i won more than 150k..and very few losses i asstained..is that a story..hell

yea..i can surely tell you some..about the gays..the blacks..the Itailians..

and Oreintals..that i played with in their bars..pool knows no boundarys

when it comes to race..religion or greed...or stories..we just love the

people and the game and the stories from the ones that made this game

great..did i contribute..hell yell..every young person i give my 2 cents

worth..bought a couple books last week from Eddie Robin..we were on the

phone for hours..best treat i have had in awhile..what history..if only...so

with no hesitation..if i felt like you i would have posted this also..but you

are 1 of the few my Freind..Randy Urban..AKA..StrokerAce
 

newfosgatesucks

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Oldschool, I can personally detest your statement, alleging myself of bein a fanboy.

You see, I never bought a book, a shirt, a hat, ANYTHING from Fred. Or anything he has written or sold. EVER. I am a self-teacher. In music, Pocket billiards, 3-cushion, and several other things.

What DOES stick out like a sore thumb here, is that you made a biased, predisposed allegation publically, intended at my expense--without any TRUE knowledge of what you proclaim. And we are supposed to trust a person who shows THIS type of behavior? We need to get right, you are dead wrong concerning myself.


Futhermore(in friendly manner) if you ARE in fact 'Old school' that means you have many many years on mysef. Which inherently implies your memories should be many many times foggier than mine as well. lol:D :eek:

Nothing personal, or begrudged - but you definately stand corrected concerning my title as "Fanboy". That sir, is as far from the truth as it gets.

Perhaps the rest of your post may read better if the False accusation were removed from it. Considering the claims made, it would certainly strengthen the integrity of it. :)
 

OldSchool

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lll said:
oldschool why do you choose to be anonymous?

III, calired already answered this for me when you asked this same thing in a thread a few months back --- here it is again:


CaliRed said:
I don't have a problem with anyone that is anonymous on the Internet. I imagine 75% of all forum members on the Internet are anonymous to some degree.

As far as OldSchool goes.... he/she probably finds it easier to be brutally honest by remaining anonymous. Think about it. If you could share your true feelings about people at your job, you can't do it with people that work with you, a person you trust, could tell someone they trust and next thing you know, you calling the boss a assh*le has now got back to the boss. You can't go on Facebook or forums and say that stuff either. Someone could read it and next thing you know, someone's emailed a link to you saying that and sent it to your boss. That could result in a uncomfortable workplace:D

Same thing goes with your friends. I can't be brutally honest about how I feel about my friends to their face or make a hurtful comment about a friend of my friend. People, for the most part, cannot handle brutal honesty. They are hurt by it or harbor resentment. You usually have to construct your comment to make it less hurtful, beat around the bush some, water it down.

When your anonymous, you can tell it the way it it without any repercussions. That could be a bad thing or a good thing. There are many ways that someone could abuse that and do it for the wrong reasons. If someone was to do it, just to maybe open some people's eyes, then that might be a valid reason.

Jury's still out for OldSchool, at least for me. He doesn't appear, so far, to be just a vindictive dude trying to seek revenge on people he doesn't like. To me, he seems like he's trying to open up some people's eyes or at least make them think a little more by offering what he believes to be true statements, that may not be popular.
 

BUD GREEN

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lll said:
oldschool in case you missed my post i bumped it
Put me down with lll as far as thinking that making a post like this while choosing to not say who you are is weak...real weak.

Why would anyone believe what you say anyway? You claim to know, EXACTLY, everyone's speed and seem to feel a need to call FTB a liar, but you give no reason for anyone to take you seriously. He's not claiming to be the greatest ever, he's just saying he knows his sh!t and can beat the best sometimes when he's playing his best.

Were you a player that anyone would know? Is there anything you have done in pool that remotely compares to putting out a well received book on banks, helping Efren learn one pocket, commentary on Accu-Stats that my friends agree is one of the best learning tools for 1P and banks out there, the love he showed Bugs during his last days...?

SJD needles Freddie, but at least he was a top player who I know has paid his dues. Other than his video against Joyner, I can't think of much he's done that helps me learn anything about pool, however.

A friend made a bank shot the other day, turned to me and said "Freddie the Beard, half ball hit...". I showed another shot to a different friend trying two railers (long rail- long rail) with a tip from his book, he made 2 of 3, said "That works good..."

That's worth 1000 posts from anonymous knockers...
 

OldSchool

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fred bentivegna said:
You still havent addressed Newfosgatesucks original report that he got from Tony. The one where he and I played at Bensingers and got strummed. Do you think Tony told him that so
that he could help my book sales too?

You know what Beard, we both agree strongly about one thing --- how idiotic it is for someone to stubbornly defend an opinion that is only based on hearsay, and not on what they saw with their own eyes. That said, I didn’t address your Bensinger’s game with Fargo because I wasn’t there, didn't see it --- I don‘t post what I don‘t know. But since you want me to comment, I will. I would guess that it happened as you said it did. I did after all, say that you banked at near top speed. So your subject to beat Fargo one time on your own home court.
 

OldSchool

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newfosgatesucks said:
Oldschool, I can personally detest your statement, alleging myself of bein a fanboy.

You see, I never bought a book, a shirt, a hat, ANYTHING from Fred. Or anything he has written or sold. EVER. I am a self-teacher. In music, Pocket billiards, 3-cushion, and several other things.

What DOES stick out like a sore thumb here, is that you made a biased, predisposed allegation publically, intended at my expense--without any TRUE knowledge of what you proclaim. And we are supposed to trust a person who shows THIS type of behavior? We need to get right, you are dead wrong concerning myself.


Futhermore(in friendly manner) if you ARE in fact 'Old school' that means you have many many years on mysef. Which inherently implies your memories should be many many times foggier than mine as well. lol:D :eek:

Nothing personal, or begrudged - but you definately stand corrected concerning my title as "Fanboy". That sir, is as far from the truth as it gets.

Perhaps the rest of your post may read better if the False accusation were removed from it. Considering the claims made, it would certainly strengthen the integrity of it. :)

newfosgatesucks, I hereby take back calling you a fanboy :)
 

OldSchool

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And sorry Bud, doc, and the rest of you who think my being anonymous negates what I say --- other members on here have strongly stated that they don't feel that way, here's their posts from a past thread of mine:


Cowboy Dennis said:
Let me say for the first and hopefully the last time: It does not matter who Old School is, not his name or anything else about him. There are many posters on this forum who's names I don't know. It does not detract from their credibility in the least with me.

I judge a man by his ability to consistently, given the passage of time, remember and relate his points. Old School has done this in my eyes.

Dennis

CaliRed said:
I don't have a problem with anyone that is anonymous on the Internet. I imagine 75% of all forum members on the Internet are anonymous to some degree.

As far as OldSchool goes.... he/she probably finds it easier to be brutally honest by remaining anonymous. Think about it. If you could share your true feelings about people at your job, you can't do it with people that work with you, a person you trust, could tell someone they trust and next thing you know, you calling the boss a assh*le has now got back to the boss. You can't go on Facebook or forums and say that stuff either. Someone could read it and next thing you know, someone's emailed a link to you saying that and sent it to your boss. That could result in a uncomfortable workplace:D

Same thing goes with your friends. I can't be brutally honest about how I feel about my friends to their face or make a hurtful comment about a friend of my friend. People, for the most part, cannot handle brutal honesty. They are hurt by it or harbor resentment. You usually have to construct your comment to make it less hurtful, beat around the bush some, water it down.

You just have to be the type that understands that. If I posted something and was way out of line in Dennis's eyes, I believe he would follow up and tell me exactly that. If he felt I was being a jerk, I don't think he would say things like..."You might have been a little harsh" or "You could have phrased it better".... I think he might say... "You were just being a jerk about it" And I shouldn't be all bent out of shape because of it, I should just understand that's his opinion and I'm not going to lose his friendship over it.. just because he called me a jerk:D

When your anonymous, you can tell it the way it it without any repercussions. That could be a bad thing or a good thing. There are many ways that someone could abuse that and do it for the wrong reasons. If someone was to do it, just to maybe open some people's eyes, then that might be a valid reason.

Jury's still out for OldSchool, at least for me. He doesn't appear, so far, to be just a vindictive dude trying to seek revenge on people he doesn't like. To me, he seems like he's trying to open up some people's eyes or at least make them think a little more by offering statements, that may not be popular.

demonrho said:
Oldschool,

I welcome you back 'cause I like to hear all the different takes on what went down in the good old days of pool. (Just like the Greeks loved to hear Homer recount the glorious battles of old during the Trojan War.)

P.S. I don't mind if peoples want to stay anonymous - though as a good old boy born and raised in downstate Illinois I would keep it confidential if you were to PM me your real identity:cool:


Yeah, and there's only hundreds of posters over at azbilliards who are totally anonymous, have been for years, and nobody has a problem with that, or believing their posts.
 

OldSchool

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wincardona said:
Old School there is no doubt that you've been around and know the skinny on a lot of the old time players, but why do you need to expose these types of things? for what valid reason? You have to realize that you weren't going to win a popularity contest when you posted this. Freddy is not only one of the best and most popular members on one pocket.org. but is very much respected amongst his peers.

Freddy has great credentials, and has a lot to offer, and has offered greatly in his 50 plus years of existance in this sport. Freddy is actually a hero to a lot of people (including me) and if you need to expose someone, please use better descretion.:)

Billy, I already said why, in my first post --- because it's just too much to take.

And you know what? --- by the way you worded your post, reprimanding me by twice using the word "exposing", you inadvertently, subconsciously, confirmed what I posted about the Beard.

Last of all, and nobody chooses to acknowledge this, I said a lot of positive things about the Beard and his pool game in my post.

Old School
 

usblues

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Even

Even

Ok men,thinking were even after all is said and done.Lets start out fresh tomorrow.Were all traveling at different speeds,adieu,B
 

CaliRed

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OldSchool.... since we got some nice pics from years gone by freshly posted, why don't you step up your game a bit, and contribute some stories on some of the players you were close to.

I mean, it's perfectly acceptable for you, or anyone else for that matter, to state their opinion on the Chicago scene, which you have done here.... but this forum thrives on people expressing opinions on all kinds of things pool related.

So start a new thread and tell some stories. You obviously have a mind that can remember stories from years ago and you have command of the English language, so out with some stories.

This forum is all about giving and receiving and us younger folk, tend to like to hear good gambling stories or behind the scenes action on the players we all know and respect.

Or is the only time we're going to hear from you, is when you want to take someone down a notch or stir the pot a bit?

Contribute! My offer with Grady stands with you too... I"m sure you got some pics, let me professionaly scan them, share them with your onepocket bros. How about some videos then? Got any old videos? How about some old pool stuff? Documents, letters, flyers, IOU's, shots on a napkin... whatever
 

demonrho

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OldSchool:

As long as I'm still on your good side, can you answer me this? How would you rate Mexican Johnny? Is he a valid candidate for the One Pocket Hall of Fame - at least in the After Hours Division? Artie B. rated him up there but the Beard would never really answer my inquiries. SJD seemed to have dismissed him but they played in the '90's, I believe, when Johnny was in really bad shape from age, illness, and other things. And everyone else is mum.

I ask you, because you being anonymous, nobody will jump on you if you let the cat out of the bag. I am truly curious and want whatever you consider the brutal truth. It won't effect my esteem for Johnny because I watched him live out his last days on the green felt and saw what he was really made of.

And I do welcome you back - I do appreciate your take on things. I love hearing all points of view and onepocket.org should be the place for that. But don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean I don't realize what all the Beard's done for pool and how great a player he was. In fact, I have picked up some truly deep insights about the game from a couple of the Beard's hints.

Also, because I appreciate all facets of the game, I don't mind guys who brag and exaggerate a bit like Fatty or even Shakespeare's Falstaff did. It's all good. Everyone sees things differently, anyway, like Dennis pointed out.
 

fred bentivegna

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Big Head

Big Head

demonrho said:
OldSchool:

As long as I'm still on your good side, can you answer me this? How would you rate Mexican Johnny? Is he a valid candidate for the One Pocket Hall of Fame - at least in the After Hours Division? Artie B. rated him up there but the Beard would never really answer my inquiries. SJD seemed to have dismissed him but they played in the '90's, I believe, when Johnny was in really bad shape from age, illness, and other things. And everyone else is mum.

I ask you, because you being anonymous, nobody will jump on you if you let the cat out of the bag. I am truly curious and want whatever you consider the brutal truth. It won't effect my esteem for Johnny because I watched him live out his last days on the green felt and saw what he was really made of.

And I do welcome you back - I do appreciate your take on things. I love hearing all points of view and onepocket.org should be the place for that. But don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean I don't realize what all the Beard's done for pool and how great a player he was. In fact, I have picked up some truly deep insights about the game from a couple of the Beard's hints.

Also, because I appreciate all facets of the game, I don't mind guys who brag and exaggerate a bit like Fatty or even Shakespeare's Falstaff did. It's all good. Everyone sees things differently, anyway, like Dennis pointed out.
Mexican Johnny Vasquez was often called "Big Head" in Chicago. I have a page or so of stories about him, but they are at home on my computer and I am in NY at a motel. Does Mexican Johnny belong in the Onepocket HOF? IMO, he certainly does. I just dont like to agree with Artie about anything. If he hadnt opened his mouth, and challenged me about Johnny's credentials I would have brought them up myself.

Johnny was a terrific all-around player, Nineball, onepocket and banks. 5 x 10, 4 1/2 x 9 and the bar tables. He played Jersey Red even Onepocket on the 5 x 10 (table 13) in Bensingers in 65 or 66 and Red quit even. One the 5 x 10's in Bensingers he got few challenges from road men to play any of the above games. That held true for years. Only the top, top, bar players could beat him doing that also. He was a natural player who didnt have to practice, could play drunk, could come off the bench ice-cold on a strange table and could bet big money (If he was getting staked. He seldom gambled with his 'horse money."). His strongest suit was coming out of the box in dead stroke. That was very intimidating to whatever road man he was bucking. They played push out back then, and usually players like to warm up a little before they attempt to shoot long hard cut shots. Johnny, however, would lazily fire at the first thing sticking out and warp it in. This usually paralyzed his oppo. They figured if he shot that good right off the bat, what was going to happen when he settled down? Unfortunately for them, they didnt know what I had discovered about Johnny. It didnt get no better than that. He was just a fast starter. He usually got weaker at the set progressed, but his opponents didnt know that, and they usually dogged it badly enough for him to win anyway. If he missed a ball later they thought that it was just a miracle, rather than him getting weaker.
Gotta go now.

Beard
 

demonrho

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fred bentivegna said:
Mexican Johnny Vasquez was often called "Big Head" in Chicago. I have a page or so of stories about him, but they are at home on my computer and I am in NY at a motel....Beard
Thanks, Beard. Really appreciate your input. Would love to sometime see those stories about Johnny. The only thing I've really seen in print about Johnny is an old George Fells article complaining that Johnny used to hound him all the time to play with a "Watchyawannado?" And then, there's Eddie Robins little blurb in WOP where I had Johnny scrawl his autograph just before his demise.
 
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