Jr's statement: My question is twofold. First, am I in error for stating to the shooter and opponent that it will be a foul if it goes past a particular (invisible) line? Second, does my statement constitute advice which would not be permitted by a referee?
My Answer:
1. Yes you are in error, for there is no rule in any governing rule making bodies that applies. If in fact the establishment plays this way then yes it would be a rule, but if you have to tell the players then I think it is not the way they play there, and the players are not that familiar with this rule.
2. Yes, any referee will tell you that their basic rule guidelines that they must follow, is first and utmost basic 101 rule; is that there is absolutely no coaching allowed.
But their # 2 rule is if asked; then they must reply. If you were asked by a player in this scenario what constitutes a foul if I shoot this shot then you have to reply. You then are allowed to only explain what constitutes a foul, but there can be no instruction on how to shoot the shot.
If he asks, it then puts the situation directly upon the shooter.
Shooters, especially in league play should know their rights when it pertains to referees. If a scenario comes up you are unsure of then of course ask your referee before executing the shot. He is not going to tell ahead of time that if this happens I am calling a foul.
There are 2 types of double hit fouls: 1. when the cue re-contacts the cue ball, and when the ob re-contacts the cue.
But there are two different sounds:
1. the double click, that happens when you are shooting more directly towards the ob, for the ob holds the cb in place and then the cue re-contacts it and forces it back into the ob which creates the double click sound. This scenario could result in the cb going forward at near speed of the ob, or not.
2. the click / thud, this happens when the cb is being stroked into an ob ball on an angle but not enough angle in relation to the separation of the cb and the ob. The thud sound you hear is the cue re-contacting the cue ball. This would be a push shot scenario in which could be also judged by the cb going through/inside of the tangent line.
Now, combine this with the use of draw vs. follow / the invisible line foul criteria of close proximity shots, and now you have a very lot of detailed explaining to do to these combatants. Also there are a few different push shot scenarios, one being a push stroke, plus you would have to explain going through the tangent line which is very important in deciphering a foul.
Also in my writing of the Close Proximity Shot Foul Criteria I have a miscue as being a foul. The reason being if you are willing to take on this shot then it of course is very demanding, so you can fudge it very easy by intentionally miscuing these shots and still make the ob. Nik points this out about miscues as the cue and ob coming back into contact. Usually a miscue is only a foul when in fact the cb jumps over an ob.
So there is way more to judging a double hit/push shot than just the invisible line.
This notion of you should of asked what rules they are playing by, kind of confuses your questions.
Now if the cb and the ob are frozen to the same cushion and you need to make a legal shot, it then would be proper to ask what rules they are playing by, for wpa and bcapl have different rulings applied to this scenario.
But a basic double hit foul, there is absolutely no difference, and there has been absolutely no difference for more decades than we are old. Whitey