*** So Here WE Go Again ***

Frank Almanza

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Dudley, in reference to that video you posted, are my eyes playing tricks on me or is that ball on the spot rolling a little funny? Maybe weighted. I would think that to make that cut you would need a lot more speed than shown.
 

mr3cushion

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Dudley, in reference to that video you posted, are my eyes playing tricks on me or is that ball on the spot rolling a little funny? Maybe weighted. I would think that to make that cut you would need a lot more speed than shown.

Frank; YOU may be RIGHT, I watched the video intently SVERAL times. It looks like the 5 ball flops over to the short cushion, (the missed shot), like JUICED UP dice on juice joint crap table!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"


P.S. Maybe we need Slomoholic to take a closer look at the video!
 
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Dudley

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All I can say is, Bob shoots the shot from the position he feels comfortable, and, I shoot it from mine!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"


P.S. I should of noticed sooner, your from Northern Ca. Then I wouldn't of expected anything different then YOUR reply!
I don't claim allegiance to anyone based on where they are from...

I'm just saying that it's hard to tell the angle that your are cutting it from the video that was made.

We've all shot thin cuts before. If I wanted to set your shot up and try it I wouldn't have enough information to try it.

Bob's video is on the spot and in line with the pocket. That is an explainable repeatable setup.

Why did what I wrote create a personal response? I wasn't trying to needle you in any way.

The double kiss cut video you made was much better in this regard. I've tried it and for me it is super tough to make. (not once!) I had a much easier time shooting it rail first.

Dudley
 

Dudley

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Dudley, in reference to that video you posted, are my eyes playing tricks on me or is that ball on the spot rolling a little funny? Maybe weighted. I would think that to make that cut you would need a lot more speed than shown.
I have no idea.. I know that Bob can make this shot but in my experience there is some black magic going on. I haven't been able to reproduce it. I'm sure it needs brand new cloth!

Dudley
 

mr3cushion

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I don't claim allegiance to anyone based on where they are from...

I'm just saying that it's hard to tell the angle that your are cutting it from the video that was made.

We've all shot thin cuts before. If I wanted to set your shot up and try it I wouldn't have enough information to try it.

Bob's video is on the spot and in line with the pocket. That is an explainable repeatable setup.

Why did what I wrote create a personal response? I wasn't trying to needle you in any way.

The double kiss cut video you made was much better in this regard. I've tried it and for me it is super tough to make. (not once!) I had a much easier time shooting it rail first.

Dudley
Dudley, I apologize if I sounded a little pissed, but, around here lately, it seems like the MAIN agenda with certain posters is NOT to try and learn or appreciate something from a player that has been taught, associated and played with MANY champions throughout the past almost 50 years. But, to try and discredit them because of a trend that was started awhile back by a, bitter, resentful, miserable person because that is their ONLY action left for them in their declining years, it is definitely extremely SAD, but TRUE!

BTW, I also think something is a little fishy about that 5 ball in Bob's video!

Respectfully;
Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
 

Dudley

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Dudley, I apologize if I sounded a little pissed, but, around here lately, it seems like the MAIN agenda with certain posters is NOT to try and learn or appreciate something from a player that has been taught, associated and played with MANY champions throughout the past almost 50 years. But, to try and discredit them because of a trend that was started awhile back by a, bitter, resentful, miserable person because that is their ONLY action left for them in their declining years, it is definitely extremely SAD, but TRUE!

BTW, I also think something is a little fishy about that 5 ball in Bob's video!

Respectfully;
Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
No Worries,

I appreciate the explanation.

As a bystander I watch the battles without taking a side.

I'll stay out of the line of fire with the flame wars as I prefer to talk about one pocket and pool related things. :)

Dudley
 

Miller

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i agree with some others, nothing terribly remarkable about the shot but certainly not a high percentage thing you are going to fire at either. the shot that really impresses me is #3 from the first video….:eek:

i’ll stick my neck out and comment. if somebody wants to call me a dumbass, i don’t care. i know what little i know and know who i am….

i was fortunate enough to be introduced/taught a little snooker at a very young age by my father, and this is not an out of the ordinary shot because of the rounded pocket profile on a snooker table (a lot of times the proper shot is actually the opposite corner pocket…). i hit this with a lot of inside with a downward stroke. when the OB is further away, you hit it outside with a downward stroke. why? i don’t know but it works. like pocketing a ball in the side with a full grip on the cue butt – it just seems to work.

when i was in school, i had an impossible time with algebra until the teacher convinced me not to worry about the formulas. the formulas work – don’t worry about them, just plug the numbers in. after that, no problems…
 

mr3cushion

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i agree with some others, nothing terribly remarkable about the shot but certainly not a high percentage thing you are going to fire at either. the shot that really impresses me is #3 from the first video….:eek:

i’ll stick my neck out and comment. if somebody wants to call me a dumbass, i don’t care. i know what little i know and know who i am….

i was fortunate enough to be introduced/taught a little snooker at a very young age by my father, and this is not an out of the ordinary shot because of the rounded pocket profile on a snooker table (a lot of times the proper shot is actually the opposite corner pocket…). i hit this with a lot of inside with a downward stroke. when the OB is further away, you hit it outside with a downward stroke. why? i don’t know but it works. like pocketing a ball in the side with a full grip on the cue butt – it just seems to work.

when i was in school, i had an impossible time with algebra until the teacher convinced me not to worry about the formulas. the formulas work – don’t worry about them, just plug the numbers in. after that, no problems…
Miller: CONGRADULATIONS, YOU are the ONLY member to solve 2 important components of the proper technique to execute this type of cut shot!!

I will give the whole skinny on the technique for making the 3 shots in the first video!

1: In the 1st position the shot is not too difficult, but, still tough for a, "C" player. If you noticed the CB is ONLY 2 diamonds away from the OB, that is what makes this shot IMPOSSIBLE with OUTSIDE English! The CB does NOT have enough distance between CB and OB to curve using a LONG EXAGERATED stroke to create the curve needed! This is called a, "downstroke" in billiards.

There are 4 components to making ALL the positions, 1,2 and 3. A SHORT stroke, INSIDE English, and a 100% STRAIGHT THRU stroke, 1 tip inside and1/2 below the center. When the cue follows thru for the shot in position 1, it MUST follow thru PARALLEL to the bed of the table!

2: In position 2, (1/2 ball behind the OB) all the components are the SAME as in the previous position, EXCEPT, 1 full tip inside English and 1/2 tip below center, along with a follow thru where the cue tip dips DOWN towards the table bed, creating a SLIGHT curve that really can't be seen, to clip the edge of the OB with perfect timing!

3: In position 3, the MOST difficult, the SAME techniques as the 2 previous positions, EXCEPT, 2 full tips of inside English and full tip below center this time the cue tip has to seek ALL the WAY DOWN to the table bed, creating and even MORE curve!

I can't emphasize the importance of the SHORT stroke when cutting balls thin with INSIDE or CENTER ball!

IF, some of the non-believers would have taken LESS time and effort trying to debunk and degrade my effort to inform, and MORE time to SNAPSHOT, (still photo) the MOMENT the CB contacted the OB, and noticed the position of the cue upon delivery on ALL 3 positions, maybe these threads wouldn't have taken the path they did!

Once again, this is how I make these types of cuts!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"


P.S. The short stroke
The next stroke is the short stroke. The name explains it all. The short stroke is probably used by better players more often than any other, especially on new cloth. This stroke is not an abrupt jab, but a well timed shortened stroke with a shorter follow through than the length of the player’s bridge.

View attachment 8379

A little trick to help facilitate the effect is to use a shorter bridge than normal. Keeping the cue tip on the cue ball for a shortened time gives a purer hit. This makes sense. The common use of the short stroke is to make extremely thin hits on the object ball, keeping the cue ball from rolling forward on perpendicular angles into the first ball. Less wrist action helps with these types of shots.
 
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Cowboy Dennis

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IF, some of the non-believers would have taken LESS time and effort trying to debunk and degrade my effort to inform, and MORE time to SNAPSHOT, (still photo) the MOMENT the CB contacted the OB, and noticed the position of the cue upon delivery on ALL 3 positions, maybe these threads wouldn't have taken the path they did!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
Bill,

In your 1st thread you showed that you cut a frozen ball in the corner from 3 positions but the video you provided did not show clearly what you were doing, I'm sure you know this. I don't think you can blame anyone for doubting your claim of "hitting the ball first" when the video didn't show it. No point insulting people who ask questions about your shot when you are claiming to have done something without showing proof of same.

In this thread you show a cut shot that most of us could make and seem as if you think you've shown us something. Tyler asked you to put the object ball off the rail 1/4" in your first layout and then cut it in. You instead opted to show a very simple shot like the one in this thread. It's your choice what you show but you haven't shown anything yet.

Nobody is degrading your posts by questioning what you claim but don't prove. Two of your buddy's posted in the first thread without ever saying that you hit ball-first. If I had posted that shot and video I would've been raked over the coals for not proving what I claimed. Now you tell us that we should have "noticed the position of the cue upon delivery":confused: .

Dennis
 

mr3cushion

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Bill,

In your 1st thread you showed that you cut a frozen ball in the corner from 3 positions but the video you provided did not show clearly what you were doing, I'm sure you know this. I don't think you can blame anyone for doubting your claim of "hitting the ball first" when the video didn't show it. No point insulting people who ask questions about your shot when you are claiming to have done something without showing proof of same.

In this thread you show a cut shot that most of us could make and seem as if you think you've shown us something. Tyler asked you to put the object ball off the rail 1/4" in your first layout and then cut it in. You instead opted to show a very simple shot like the one in this thread. It's your choice what you show but you haven't shown anything yet.

Now, as to the previous shot, (#3), or 2 and 1. With the OB off the cushion, it's possible, by cutting the OB so thin, the CB may come off the cushion and hit the OB using, "inside English!" Plus I have better idea of how to AIM at that shot when the OB is frozen! MY ANSWER!

Nobody is degrading your posts by questioning what you claim but don't prove. Two of your buddy's posted in the first thread without ever saying that you hit ball-first. If I had posted that shot and video I would've been raked over the coals for not proving what I claimed. Now you tell us that we should have "noticed the position of the cue upon delivery":confused: .

Dennis
If you don't believe what I've done, then don't waste your time viewing this thread or replying to it, you have your opinion and I KNOW what I did!

Once again, You're trying to disprove what I've said can be done. I have an idea, why don't you post a video claiming you can make the shot from positions 2 and 3 hitting RAIL FIRST! I know I'd like to learn how to do it! Now, don't forget ALL the camera views and slomo camera work that you required of me!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
 

backplaying

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I have no idea.. I know that Bob can make this shot but in my experience there is some black magic going on. I haven't been able to reproduce it. I'm sure it needs brand new cloth!

Dudley
I tried this shot for about 15 minutes and didn't get close. A very good player said he had tried it for over a hour once and never made it. I agree with Bill, I would like to see that shot in slow mo.
 

backplaying

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This was your sentence in the post! I don't think you would want to play me some

Play Some what? I said one and one, I didn't even say just 3Cushion and knowingly having YOU 1000% locked up, I gave you a half ass chance with pool! I haven't played POOL for over 45 years and I'll play the way I said. If YOU can't beat a guy coming off the bench after that length of time, then YOU CAN'T beat any of those "C" players you keep bragging about! Maybe, I'm just thinking maybe, YOU aren't much better than a "C" player. Also, YOU might be another one of these guys that's just another. "anonymous keyboard gambler!"

Listen, if you're just woofn, don't waste my time, I know that's easy to do behind a keyboard. If we were in a pool room face to face I might not even know you're in the room.

You got my offer, either it's Yeh or Neh, if it's Yeh, I'll post $5,000.00 thru PAY PAL with Steve Booth, that's all. DONE!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"


P.S. Here's another issue, YOU know who I am, I don't know who YOU (anonymous) are, and I'll still play. Hell, I might be in a stone cold trap, but that's what a PLAYER does when they KNOW what they're doing! They GET UP and PLAY!

P.P.S. To ALL the members, First of all, I'm not trying to PROOF anything, I'm merely demonstrated some difficult shots! I posted this video from 2 different angles, (the ones I thought would be helpful) to show that an OB can be cut backwards past a 90 DEGREE ANGLE, that's all!

It seems to me that there were some a little disturbed by the phrase, "a pure stroke," whether you believe or not that part of the correct technique to accomplish these shots is a, "pure, perfectly timed, straight-thru stroke," I do, this is my opinion on how the shot can be made! I'm just trying to INFORM members of what is possible if you have knowledge of certain techniques, that's all! So, once again, this post is about demonstrating a, "backwards cut shot of LESS than 90 degrees!"
No problem Bill. Its nothing to get hot about. That prop bet would give you a free shot, not me. I guess I just come from the old school of gambling to prove something one claims, like the first video where it clearly looked rail first to me, and yes, I would bet it was. It wouldn't be the first time I booked a loser. Its all good. Billy Kuykendall.
 

mr3cushion

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No problem Bill. Its nothing to get hot about. That prop bet would give you a free shot, not me. I guess I just come from the old school of gambling to prove something one claims, like the first video where it clearly looked rail first to me, and yes, I would bet it was. It wouldn't be the first time I booked a loser. Its all good. Billy Kuykendall.
No problem Billy, it's all good!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
 

SloMoHolic

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*** So Here WE Go Again ***

I tried this shot for about 15 minutes and didn't get close. A very good player said he had tried it for over a hour once and never made it. I agree with Bill, I would like to see that shot in slow mo.
Trust me, I've spent (wasted?) hours trying to get this shot in SloMo. The closest I ever got the OB was about half a diamond from the pocket.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'm pretty sure I can't do it.

Yet :)

-Blake
 

SloMoHolic

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*** So Here WE Go Again ***

I have an idea, why don't you post a video claiming you can make the shot from positions 2 and 3 hitting RAIL FIRST! I know I'd like to learn how to do it! Now, don't forget ALL the camera views and slomo camera work that you required of me!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
Hi Bill,

I hope you don't take offense to this, but I just tried your shot and made it from all three positions, going rail first. I captured it in simultaneous HD video and slow motion video. I'll put it together in a little bit. (I'm watching Bonus Ball now :yikes: ).

But I thought you would like to know that I believe that I may have also made it once or twice going ball-first. I'm not 100% sure yet (still need to review the SloMo), but if I did, I will most certainly include that as well.

This should keep everybody on the edge of their seats for a bit while I edit and upload the video. :)

Also, I know that making these three shots rail-first in no way proves that they can't be made ball-first. It only proves that they can be made rail-first.

And my cue ball didn't quite react the same way yours did, but it was close. You'll see what I mean. Perhaps it was due to a difference of equipment. My cloth is very old and needs to be replaced!

Thanks for the challenge. I had no idea I could kick-cut a ball from such an extreme angle! Great shot!

Sincerely,

-Blake


Note: this post was edited because I messed up the quote. ;)
 

mr3cushion

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Hi Bill,

I hope you don't take offense to this, but I just tried your shot and made it from all three positions, going rail first. I captured it in simultaneous HD video and slow motion video. I'll put it together in a little bit. (I'm watching Bonus Ball now :yikes: ).

But I thought you would like to know that I believe that I may have also made it once or twice going ball-first. I'm not 100% sure yet (still need to review the SloMo), but if I did, I will most certainly include that as well.

This should keep everybody on the edge of their seats for a bit while I edit and upload the video. :)

Also, I know that making these three shots rail-first in no way proves that they can't be made ball-first. It only proves that they can be made rail-first.

And my cue ball didn't quite react the same way yours did, but it was close. You'll see what I mean. Perhaps it was due to a difference of equipment. My cloth is very old and needs to be replaced!

Thanks for the challenge. I had no idea I could kick-cut a ball from such an extreme angle! Great shot!

Sincerely,

-Blake


Note: this post was edited because I messed up the quote. ;)
Blake; thanks for taking time out and the effort, I'll reserve my reply until after I watch and critique the video!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
 

SloMoHolic

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*** So Here WE Go Again ***

Blake; thanks for taking time out and the effort, I'll reserve my reply until after I watch and critique the video!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
Yes, sir, that sounds good. It will be either late tonight or Saturday. I'll post a link here when it's ready.

Thanks,

-Blake
 

SloMoHolic

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*** So Here WE Go Again ***

Yes, sir, that sounds good. It will be either late tonight or Saturday. I'll post a link here when it's ready.

Thanks,

-Blake
Here you go!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgQyhSxIHvw[/ame]

Thanks,

-Blake
 

mr3cushion

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Blake; Very nice work! But, I do have some questions. I have watched the video a few times and noticed that all the slomo videos don't seem to have the same speed, and in the #3 slomo the CB seems to speed up a little at contact.

The opening shot of the video slomo appears to be the best example of you contacting the rail first. IMO, the speed is perfect to tell whether the ball or rail is contacted first, of course we can't tell what angle on the shot you started from. It seems from the way the CB came across into the frame it was form the left side of the OB a little.

I have more Questions, but I want to look at the vid, frame by frame first.

Thanks for taking time out to do this.

Regards;
Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
 

lll

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nice work blake
interesting to me that especially on shot #1 at about 1:30 shows the cue ball coming backwards to the short rail and seems clear (to me)that it was a rail first hit
that would suggest that where the cue ball goes cant be used as proof for rail first or not
before seeing your video i would not have thought a rail first hit would not allow the cue ball to angle off the rail so sharply

edited for spelling correction and to add the not (bolded) which was what i wanted to say
 
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