S. Frost vs. S. Ochoa 2012 Tunica

jtompilot

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Okay, here is the shot I see. Granted, it is very aggressive but if I have a good feel for the speed of the table the shot is not dangerous and can reap great rewards. It is very important that I have a good feel for the speed of the table so if this is my first shot of the match I may chose something else.

I like banking the fifteen past the thirteen if possible, and running the cue ball short, three rails back to the second diamond on Ochoa's side. As long as the object ball can be played past the nine (there appears to be plenty of room) and the focus be on the cue ball, the shot has great prospects. The cue ball should hit the first rail about one diamond above the side pocket. I might even make a ball in my pocket with this shot but even if I don't I should get a ball somewhere near my pocket and hide it as well. I just want to make certain I don't run the cue ball much past the second diamond on Ochoa's side.

Tom
Hi Tom, I have shot that a number of times but after the last few woopings I need to scale back till I get my stroke back. I do like it a lot though.
 

androd

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Rodney, it's been over three years that i've been waiting for you to put up a shot that I don't like. :sorry I don't like positioning the cue ball on the side of the 9ball it ended up in here. Imo you leave your opponent too many possible options to put you back in trouble. You can leak out the moved 15ball as an escape for him, or he can play off the 9ball and keep his advantage. Your side of the table is too naked to play the shot like that. Just my opinion.

Dr. Bill
Patience is a Virgin ! :)
Rod.
 

lll

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Okay, here is the shot I see. Granted, it is very aggressive but if I have a good feel for the speed of the table the shot is not dangerous and can reap great rewards. It is very important that I have a good feel for the speed of the table so if this is my first shot of the match I may chose something else.

I like banking the fifteen past the thirteen if possible, and running the cue ball short, three rails back to the second diamond on Ochoa's side. As long as the object ball can be played past the nine (there appears to be plenty of room) and the focus be on the cue ball, the shot has great prospects. The cue ball should hit the first rail about one diamond above the side pocket. I might even make a ball in my pocket with this shot but even if I don't I should get a ball somewhere near my pocket and hide it as well. I just want to make certain I don't run the cue ball much past the second diamond on Ochoa's side.

Tom
tom if i understand you right you want to bank the 15 past the 13 towards the 6???
why not bank it into the 9-11??
trying to show both shots on one screen
tom.jpg
 

Tom Wirth

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Hi Larry,
To answer your question I want to aim the fifteen toward the twelve where I might get lucky and make it. I'm not sure if I can cut the fifteen that much without clipping the nine though. So if that is the case I want to bank into the thirteen with the same hope that I might make that ball instead. I can get my cue ball to the same place with either shot.

I don't like banking toward the nine ball because there really isn't much chance of getting anything near my pocket by doing that unless I stroke the shot pretty hard and the speed of the shot is the primary focus. The whole shot is predicated on getting the cue ball to the second diamond on that side rail.

Tom
 

wincardona

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Hi Larry,
To answer your question I want to aim the fifteen toward the twelve where I might get lucky and make it. I'm not sure if I can cut the fifteen that much without clipping the nine though. So if that is the case I want to bank into the thirteen with the same hope that I might make that ball instead. I can get my cue ball to the same place with either shot.

I don't like banking toward the nine ball because there really isn't much chance of getting anything near my pocket by doing that unless I stroke the shot pretty hard and the speed of the shot is the primary focus. The whole shot is predicated on getting the cue ball to the second diamond on that side rail.

Tom
I looked at your shot and it didn't look like the room that was needed to bank the 15ball past the 9ball toward your pocket was available. I also looked at banking the 15ball toward the 11ball and didn't like the angle offered for that shot. To me the angle offered for that shot was too flat...which would send the cue ball too long for what the crucial part of the shot demanded. However, if the angle for your shot is available sending the 15ball toward the pocket, or toward the 11ball or 13ball is there, it's clearly the best option. OOPS! I almost forgot about the most important part of the shot, positioning the cue ball near the 2nd. dia. on the side rail.:eek: Just my take on the shot.

Dr. Bill
 

Tom Wirth

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Yes Bill, getting the cue ball to the second diamond is what it is all about. If the shot can't pass by the nine enough to bank under the three, then I think I woud be looking elsewhere for a shot. I really don't like playing the fifteen toward the three or back into the nine.

Tom
 

sappo

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I like the idea of knocking the 2-ball away, but shooting the 10 directly into it makes me worry about the 10 double kissing the 2 and leaving the 2 there. If the angle is available to bank the 10 behind the 2, that would knock both of them away without that possibility of a kiss.

Otherwise, I think I would just follow straight through the 6-ball with the cue ball, over to the side rail.
Steve i really like your shot. i would follow the 10 straight ahead with the hope of leaving the cb on the bottom rail after it hits the side rail. it looks to me no side spin is required making this a simple effective shot. keith
 

Dudley

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This would be my preferred shot if I was comfortable with the table. From the top view it looks weird however while playing I never really get to see the table from that perspective... So based on the pov image I think it's on.

I like getting on the 2 ball. If you get there it can be a super tough spot to get out of for your opponent.

If I was feeling uncomfortable with the above I would just play off of the 7 and get behind the 2.

Dudley

ochoa's break.jpg
ochoa's break 4.jpg
 
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androd

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Yes Bill, getting the cue ball to the second diamond is what it is all about. If the shot can't pass by the nine enough to bank under the three, then I think I woud be looking elsewhere for a shot. I really don't like playing the fifteen toward the three or back into the nine.

Tom
It seems like you'd have to cut the 15 ball into the 9 ball to get the CB around short enough. :eek:
Rod.
 

Tom Wirth

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It seems like you'd have to cut the 15 ball into the 9 ball to get the CB around short enough. :eek:
Rod.
Hi Rod,
From the view seen from #30 I think there is ample room for the fifteen to pass the nine and play three rails short to the second diamond. My only issue is, can I cut the fifteen enough to play into the thirteen ball or past it toward the twelve. I really wouldn't want to bank into the three because the fifteen might carom off the three and thirteen and run toward Ochoa's pocket. If I couldn't play the shot I envisioned here I would have to look to play the fifteen back toward the nine or what, the eleven? Rod, I value your opinion, but regardless of how full the hit on the fifteen, I see no problem with playing the cue ball to the spot I pointed out. Right or wrong from what I see here I would be committed to this shot. IMO It has the highest probability of offense with the least amount of risk.

Tom
 

backplaying

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I like the idea of knocking the 2-ball away, but shooting the 10 directly into it makes me worry about the 10 double kissing the 2 and leaving the 2 there. If the angle is available to bank the 10 behind the 2, that would knock both of them away without that possibility of a kiss.

Otherwise, I think I would just follow straight through the 6-ball with the cue ball, over to the side rail.
This was the first shot i seen. I do like the idea of banking the 9 or 15 and try and move some ball over to my side also.
 

androd

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Hi Rod,
From the view seen from #30 I think there is ample room for the fifteen to pass the nine and play three rails short to the second diamond. My only issue is, can I cut the fifteen enough to play into the thirteen ball or past it toward the twelve. I really wouldn't want to bank into the three because the fifteen might carom off the three and thirteen and run toward Ochoa's pocket. If I couldn't play the shot I envisioned here I would have to look to play the fifteen back toward the nine or what, the eleven? Rod, I value your opinion, but regardless of how full the hit on the fifteen, I see no problem with playing the cue ball to the spot I pointed out. Right or wrong from what I see here I would be committed to this shot. IMO It has the highest probability of offense with the least amount of risk.

Tom
Tom, I like the thee rail safes and play'em often, IF the CB is going long, you're gonna have to draw the CB and hit it harder to shorten it up, which maybe OK. Maybe not.:eek:
Rod.
 

lll

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Tom, I like the thee rail safes and play'em often, IF the CB is going long, you're gonna have to draw the CB and hit it harder to shorten it up, which maybe OK. Maybe not.:eek:
Rod.
i learned this move from rod many years ago
its helped me get out of the break many times
thanks rod:)
i like the shot when i can bank the ball back into the stack to drive alot of balls to my side or at least nudge them to a favorable angle for me
 

beatle

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for the three rail around the table guys, if you come up a little long or short you give him many ways to put other balls in close to his hole and keep you locked up. try doing that shot cold on a table and see how good you hit it.
right now you arent in too much trouble here and you have balls open and can turn the tables around to even with one or two moves. for five bucks i would have fun and shoot one of those shots.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Nothing fancy for me. I'll start developing my side of the table with one ball.
Realizing I'm automatically biased because I know what happened, I like this shot the best. I don't see anything great to do and I'm not in much trouble either.

FA's shot.jpg
 

Tom Wirth

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Realizing I'm automatically biased because I know what happened, I like this shot the best. I don't see anything great to do and I'm not in much trouble either.

View attachment 7921
Dennis,
Don't you think the return shot from your choice would give Ochoa the free bank on fifteen for his hole? He could four rail the cue ball to the end rail behind the twelve? Ochoa might even make the deuce and be off to the races. It would be a free shot! I wouldn't want him to even have a sniff at that shot.

As you say, you have an advantage in knowing what happens.

Tom
 

tylerdurden

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Frank, that shot is no good at all. From that leave one can shoot the 15 into the 9 and move both balls to the other side.
Or banking that 14, perhaps even shooting it toward the 3 area and going uptable with white. I am with you in that I really don't like that option, but it seems there are hints that is what he did. Anyway, what he did doesn't matter, it is what is "correct" :)
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Dennis,
Don't you think the return shot from your choice would give Ochoa the free bank on fifteen for his hole? He could four rail the cue ball to the end rail behind the twelve? Ochoa might even make the deuce and be off to the races. It would be a free shot! I wouldn't want him to even have a sniff at that shot.

As you say, you have an advantage in knowing what happens.

Tom
Tom,

When I first saw this DVD I stopped it before I saw the shot Scott chose, so in that regard I did see the layout as you all did; I didn't see any great shot to shoot before I ever saw what Scott shot. I say I'm biased because it appears that way, that's all.

The only place I see players constantly shoot banks and send the cueball four rails is on this site:). I rarely see it on DVD's (about 115 One-Pocket DVD's) and I can only remember one person in my life who routinely shot those type shots. I will also be putting the 9 in a possible path to block that 4-railer with the cueball.

I'll post up Scott's shot in a minute.

Dennis
 
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