Alex v. Scott: The Good, the Bad, and the ...

Island Drive

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$$$$$$$$$$$$$

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

This is the main hook + the hole card, and especially the TV production, was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than any ESPN 9 ball womens event, hands down.
 

Jimmy B

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Quoting onepockethacker:

"There are only 3 reasons why poker took off in this country..
1. Anyone regardless of skill level can get hot and win a boatload of money in a tournament- not true in pool, if you are not highly skilled in pool you have no chance of winning.

2. They started showing the hole cards on television.. if they don't show the hole cards you would not have half the amount of people watching.. proven fact!!

3. Everyone could play online in the comfort of their home without having to sit at a table in a casino and interacting with people. Which people in this country can't play online anymore and plus Full Tilt left a bad taste in everyone's mouth and wallet."


Here's another reason. Girls like this. She likes to play a bit of Texas Holdem. Anybody interested?? I'm not kidding either...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arkk4Qf4x8w[/ame]
 

androd

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Poker is kinda exciting. Everyone watching knows what to do because as mentioned before they're looking at every hole card.
Meanwhile pool is boring, I don't watch it myself.
Rod.
 

lfigueroa

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Go through the last 20 or more years of "Billiards Digest" and you will clearly see the desperate attempt to make pool squeaky clean for marketing purposes. Corporate America's response to this marketing strategy can indeed be seen as a metaphorical laughing off of the pool industry. It's not hard to imagine the response in the corporate board rooms: "Are these people serious?"

I have been a subscriber to BD going back to the early 80's (how about you?) and have seen no evidence of the "desperate attempt" you speak of to make pool "squeaky clean for marketing purposes." Could you please provide some examples?

And, I ask again: I am not aware of any corporations that have laughed off the pool industry -- could you please illuminate us as to what board room presentations and discussions you have been privy to?

Lou Figueroa
 

tylerdurden

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Quoting onepockethacker:

"There are only 3 reasons why poker took off in this country..
1. Anyone regardless of skill level can get hot and win a boatload of money in a tournament- not true in pool, if you are not highly skilled in pool you have no chance of winning.

2. They started showing the hole cards on television.. if they don't show the hole cards you would not have half the amount of people watching.. proven fact!!

3. Everyone could play online in the comfort of their home without having to sit at a table in a casino and interacting with people. Which people in this country can't play online anymore and plus Full Tilt left a bad taste in everyone's mouth and wallet."
Bolded is 100% the reason it took off, and it says a lot about us all too.

If you could get good enough at pool in a month to make it to the finals of a major, I have no doubt it would be big. It takes about 10 or 15 years to get to that level though, assuming you are blessed with the talent. I really think this says a a lot about us. Go way back in time and you have guys spending decades to perfect their crafts. Now we have ****s that sit in offices all day, perfecting nothing, and who don't want to spend even 5 minutes to actually get good at anything (except maybe a ridiculous video game). I know this now because I am in one of the offices, lol. I really believe that the popularity of poker vs pool speaks volumes about our society.
 

Island Drive

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Yep, they think fast, quick, easy, click of the mouse, and one simple answer will fix all their problems. The problem is in the their mirror.
 

demonrho

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I have been a subscriber to BD going back to the early 80's (how about you?) and have seen no evidence of the "desperate attempt" you speak of to make pool "squeaky clean for marketing purposes." Could you please provide some examples?

And, I ask again: I am not aware of any corporations that have laughed off the pool industry -- could you please illuminate us as to what board room presentations and discussions you have been privy to?

Lou Figueroa
Lou, it is not worth my time to go back through all the back issues of BD, but if you can't see the continuous thread of the pool industry trying to put lipstick on a pig (as John Henderson would put it ;-) then maybe you should sign up for some reading comprehension classes. :rolleyes: As for corporations laughing off pool, it's stone cold obvious from their response to the pool industry's desperate attempts to get sponsorship.
 

SJDinPHX

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Lou, it is not worth my time to go back through all the back issues of BD, but if you can't see the continuous thread of the pool industry trying to put lipstick on a pig (as John Henderson would put it ;-)
Demonrho,

You and Lou, and John H.,and most on this forum, are all intelligent people, and I'm sure you/we all want the same thing... That is for pool to be a more visable, lucrative, sport/game that can attract big $$$ sponsors, thereby making it something worthy of trying to excell at, for the pro's, and the aspiring youngster's in our game... Everybody has their own vision of why this has not happened, and what it will take to make it happen...Here is my somewhat alternate viewpoint, as to what is surely NOT helping our cause !...Jersey Red and I kicked this around (a lot) back in the old LeCue days, before there were hardly any tournaments at all..and he, and many others, thought it had considerable merit. However, to bring it about, would take a huge commitment of time, energy, and money...all of which I find myself in very short supply these days...I welcome any and all critique..(from almost anybody) :cool:

Poker came out of the blue..They refined it and made it watchable and exciting... End of story !... Bowling. (IMO, the most boring of all sports to watch) just formed the PBA as recently as 1959, (around the introduction of the automatic pinsetter's) and the average income, of the hundreds of Pro bowlers, shot up dramatically !...Even now, (though its slowed down somewhat, as poker has)... there are still millions more up for grabs than pool has ever had.. Also, they have attracted some huge names as sponsors...(outside the Bowling industry)..Ie. McDonald's, KFC, Coke, and many Beer cos, which has generated many more televised events, and lined the pockets of their touring pro's... They had a viable Pro organization, and sense enough to hire a PR firm.... Pool had a similar shot at some success, but horrible management (or none at all) and the untimely curtailment of cigarette advertising money, dealt pool a blow we may never recover from !

Whether you are in the "squeaky clean" or "warts and all" camp, pool will never reach those heights, without some form of effective organization... Another thing most seem to be overlooking is this...There are dozens of different ways to play poker, but the promoter's wisely narrowed it down to ONE GAME, 'Hold'em'..(their best game IMO)...Please note, Bowling, like all other sports, has always had ONLY ONE GAME...I defy anyone to count how many different pool games there are..Snooker, which in the rest of the world, is the most popular, and lucrative cue sport, enjoys the same distinction..There is only ONE accepted way to play the game.

If pool is EVER to be an viable source of entertainment..we need to stop confusing the general public, with dozen's of different games, and pick ONE game to promote...And much as it pains me to say..it ain't gonna be one pocket,...for obvious reasons !... And I am not gonna hold my breath hoping it will be 'Bonus Ball' either...I honestly believe, if the people who are spending a fortune promoting BB, and its new format, (team concept, etc.) had made their game "plain old 8 ball", they would have multiplied their chance for success a hundred fold...Pool has now alingned itself with the Casino's that have sprung up all over the country, which to be sure, boosted Poker along..But, we've sure stepped on our toe a few times in that area ! :eek:

Everybody in the pool world, knows how to play 8-Ball... Why keep trying to cram other new, different, and even more complicated games, down the public's throats ?..8 ball, is already a pretty good game, which most accomplished Pro's know how to play quite well..And with some very minor tweaking, it could be made even more challenging and exciting to watch !

Us hardcore lover's of One Pocket, 9/10 ball, 14.1 or Bank's, could still enjoy those games among ourselves...But I believe strongly, that one solid professional organization..promtoting ONE game..May have a chance !...Never really been tried has it ?...We have, and have had, more 'Colorful Characters', than bowling and golf combined...If the Beard's new book was about either of those sports, he be doing good to come up with 3 or 4 pages, much less 3-400...So it shouldn't matter whether we go 'squeaky clean' or 'wart's 'n all'...Let those chips fall where they may..!..

Just to make another point..When the PR man, for the Professional Org. (which we dont have yet)...goes in to sell a big company CEO on a sponsorship, I will bet huge $$$$, every CEO in the U.S. will know how to play EIGHT BALL !.(they may call it "stripes and solids"...but they WILL kmow how to play it.....That'll be one big hurdle out of the way right there !

Or, we could take a vote....How many pro players, would rather be streamed, playing a $5000 added 10 ball, or one pocket tournament... As opposed to playing 8 Ball on ESPN, with a boat load of $$$$ up for grabs ?...But, It don't matter, if we ain't ever gonna get a shot !

PS..I Surely don't mean to imply, that the guy's who are promoting 5K added tournaments, are not to be applauded...Without their love for the game, there would be nothing !...Just trying to reiterate the 'one game' concept.
 
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tylerdurden

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Demonrho,

You and Lou, and John H., are all very intelligent people, and I'm sure you all want the same thing... That is for pool to be a more visable, lucrative, sport/game that can attract big $$$ sponsors, thereby making it something worthy of trying to excell at, for the pro's, and the aspiring youngster's in our game... Everybody has their own vision of why this has not happened, and what it will take to make it happen...Here is my somewhat alternate viewpoint, as to what surely is not helping our cause !...Jersey Red and I kicked this around (a lot) back in the old LeCue days, before there were hardly any tournaments at all..and he thought it had considerable merit. It would take a huge commitment of time, energy, and money...all of which I find myself in short supply these days...I welcome any and all critique..(from almost anybody) :cool:

Poker came out of the blue..They refined it and made it watchable and exciting !... Bowling. (IMO, the most boring of all sports to watch) just formed the PBA as recently as 1959, (around the introduction of the automatic pinsetter's) and the average income of Pro bowlers shot up dramatically...Even now, (though its slowed down also) their are still millions more up for grabs than pool has ever had.. Also, they have attracted some huge names as sponsors...(outside the pool industry)..Ie. McDonald's, KFC, Coke, and many Beer cos, which has generated many more televised events, and lined the pockets of their touring pro's. Pool had a similar shot at some success, but horrible management (or none at all) and the curtailment of cigarette advertising money, dealt pool a blow we may never recover from.

Whether you are in the "squeaky clean" or "warts and all" camp, pool will never reach those heights, without some form of effective organization... Another thing most seem to be overlooking is this...There are dozens of different ways to play poker, but the promoter's wisely narrowed it down to ONE GAME, 'Hold'em'..(their best game IMO)...Please note, Bowling, like all other sports, has always had ONLY ONE GAME...I defy anyone to count how many different pool games there are..Snooker, which in the rest of the world, is the most popular, and lucrative cue sport, enjoys the same distinction..There is only ONE accepted way to play the game.

If pool is EVER to be an viable source of entertainment..we need to stop confusing the general public, with dozen's of different games, and pick ONE game to promote...And much as it pains me to say...IT AIN'T GONNA BE ONE-POCKET...for obvious reasons !... And I am not gonna hold my breath hoping it will be 'Bonus Ball' either...I honestly believe, if the people who are spending a fortune promoting BB, and its new format, (team concept, etc.) had made its game "plain old 8 ball", it would have multiplied its chance for success a hundred fold...Pool has now alingned itself with the Casino's that have sprung up all over the country, which to be sure, boosted Poker along..But, we've sure stepped on our toe a few times in that area ! :eek:

Everybody in the pool world, knows how to play 8-Ball... Why keep trying to cram other new, different, and even more complicated games, down the public's throats ?..8 ball, is already a pretty good game, which most accomplished Pro's know how to play quite well..And with some very minor tweaking, it could be made even more challenging and exciting to watch !

Us hardcore lover's of One Pocket, 9/10 ball, 14.1 or Bank's, could still enjoy those games among ourselves...But I believe strongly, that one solid professional organization..promtoting ONE game..May have a chance !...Never really been tried has it ?...We have more 'Colorful Characters', than bowling and golf combined...So it shouldn't matter whether we go 'squeaky clean' or 'wart's 'n all'...Let those chips fall where they may..!..

Just to make another point..When the PR man, for the Professional Org. (which we dont have yet)...goes in to sell a big company CEO on a sponsorship, I will bet huge $$$$, every CEO in the U.S. will know how to play
EIGHT BALL !..That'll be one hurdle out of the way right there...Or, we could take a vote....How many pro players, would rather be streamed, playing a $5000 added 10 ball, or one pocket tournament, as opposed to playing 8 Ball on ESPN, with boat load of $$$$ up for grabs ?...But, It don't matter if we ain't ever gonna get a shot !

PS..Surely don't mean to imply, that the guy's who are promoting 5K added tournaments, are not to be applauded...Without their love for the game, there would be nothing !...Just trying to reiterate the 'one game' concept.
Wow. A great point. And yes I am serious. I knew you had it in you :D Nice post, I think your "one game" concept has a lot of merit, and you opened my eyes to this for sure. It is nice to see you when you clean up your posts and are thinking clearly :)
 

lfigueroa

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Lou, it is not worth my time to go back through all the back issues of BD, but if you can't see the continuous thread of the pool industry trying to put lipstick on a pig (as John Henderson would put it ;-) then maybe you should sign up for some reading comprehension classes. :rolleyes: As for corporations laughing off pool, it's stone cold obvious from their response to the pool industry's desperate attempts to get sponsorship.

My reading comprehension is fine, as I’m sure yours is.

However, I wasn’t asking you to go through the back issues of BD and give me the issue numbers. I just figured that since you mentioned 20 years of the magazine’s history you could, off the top of your head say, “There was the time that...” and “Then there was also the time...” “Oh yes, and then one time....” and provide some examples.

But you can’t even do that so your assertion dies on the vine for lack nutrition.

And no, it’s not “stone cold obvious” that any corporations are “laughing off pool,” nor that the industry has made “desperate attempts to get sponsorship." That lack of clarity is one of the reasons there's debate on this topic. This assertion of yours is also in a state of severe malnourishment and so I ask, for the third time: I am not aware of any corporations that have laughed off the pool industry -- could you please illuminate us as to what board room presentations and discussions you have been privy to?

I’m going to guess that you haven’t been privy to any and are pulling this argument out of thin air.

Lou Figueroa
 
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lfigueroa

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Demonrho,

You and Lou, and John H., are all very intelligent people, and I'm sure you all want the same thing... That is for pool to be a more visable, lucrative, sport/game that can attract big $$$ sponsors, thereby making it something worthy of trying to excell at, for the pro's, and the aspiring youngster's in our game... Everybody has their own vision of why this has not happened, and what it will take to make it happen...Here is my somewhat alternate viewpoint, as to what is surely NOT helping our cause !...Jersey Red and I kicked this around (a lot) back in the old LeCue days, before there were hardly any tournaments at all..and he thought it had considerable merit. It would take a huge commitment of time, energy, and money...all of which I find myself in short supply these days...I welcome any and all critique..(from almost anybody) :cool:

Poker came out of the blue..They refined it and made it watchable and exciting !... Bowling. (IMO, the most boring of all sports to watch) just formed the PBA as recently as 1959, (around the introduction of the automatic pinsetter's) and the average income of Pro bowlers shot up dramatically...Even now, (though its slowed down also) their are still millions more up for grabs than pool has ever had.. Also, they have attracted some huge names as sponsors...(outside the pool industry)..Ie. McDonald's, KFC, Coke, and many Beer cos, which has generated many more televised events, and lined the pockets of their touring pro's. Pool had a similar shot at some success, but horrible management (or none at all) and the curtailment of cigarette advertising money, dealt pool a blow we may never recover from.

Whether you are in the "squeaky clean" or "warts and all" camp, pool will never reach those heights, without some form of effective organization... Another thing most seem to be overlooking is this...There are dozens of different ways to play poker, but the promoter's wisely narrowed it down to ONE GAME, 'Hold'em'..(their best game IMO)...Please note, Bowling, like all other sports, has always had ONLY ONE GAME...I defy anyone to count how many different pool games there are..Snooker, which in the rest of the world, is the most popular, and lucrative cue sport, enjoys the same distinction..There is only ONE accepted way to play the game.

If pool is EVER to be an viable source of entertainment..we need to stop confusing the general public, with dozen's of different games, and pick ONE game to promote...And much as it pains me to say..it ain't gonna be one pocket,...for obvious reasons !... And I am not gonna hold my breath hoping it will be 'Bonus Ball' either...I honestly believe, if the people who are spending a fortune promoting BB, and its new format, (team concept, etc.) had made their game "plain old 8 ball", they would have multiplied their chance for success a hundred fold...Pool has now alingned itself with the Casino's that have sprung up all over the country, which to be sure, boosted Poker along..But, we've sure stepped on our toe a few times in that area ! :eek:

Everybody in the pool world, knows how to play 8-Ball... Why keep trying to cram other new, different, and even more complicated games, down the public's throats ?..8 ball, is already a pretty good game, which most accomplished Pro's know how to play quite well..And with some very minor tweaking, it could be made even more challenging and exciting to watch !

Us hardcore lover's of One Pocket, 9/10 ball, 14.1 or Bank's, could still enjoy those games among ourselves...But I believe strongly, that one solid professional organization..promtoting ONE game..May have a chance !...Never really been tried has it ?...We have, and have had, more 'Colorful Characters', than bowling and golf combined...If the Beard's new book was about either of those sports, he be doing good to come up with 3 or 4 pages, much less 3-400...So it shouldn't matter whether we go 'squeaky clean' or 'wart's 'n all'...Let those chips fall where they may..!..

Just to make another point..When the PR man, for the Professional Org. (which we dont have yet)...goes in to sell a big company CEO on a sponsorship, I will bet huge $$$$, every CEO in the U.S. will know how to play
EIGHT BALL !..That'll be one hurdle out of the way right there...Or, we could take a vote....How many pro players, would rather be streamed, playing a $5000 added 10 ball, or one pocket tournament, as opposed to playing 8 Ball on ESPN, with a boat load of $$$$ up for grabs ?...But, It don't matter, if we ain't ever gonna get a shot !

PS..Surely don't mean to imply, that the guy's who are promoting 5K added tournaments, are not to be applauded...Without their love for the game, there would be nothing !...Just trying to reiterate the 'one game' concept.

Your point is well taken, Dick, but played well 8ball, while familiar, is boring.

I've always thought that banks would be the best game for TV. That's always my gut feel when I watch Buddy Hall or Larry Nevel or John Brumbach play or when watching the last four guys at the DCC and one of them rips in a half dozen.

Lou Figueroa
 

tylerdurden

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No, Duck is right. That is never going to happen. Can you imagine a potential sponsor showing up at an bank pool event, doing some research, and watching guys play 15 safties in a row. It would not go over on tv, and not for the sponsors. But everyone flipping through their channels would see what needs to be done in a game of 8 ball, boring or not. 8 ball may be the only chance at anything. Sad isn't it? Even if we get what we want it is still hideous lol. IPT was really on the right track the more i think of it, you could throw some interesting stuff in there like must bank the 8 on the hill to win the match, which i think IPT was playing with stuff like that - they were playing bank the 8 for extra cash in some qualifying events anyway.
 

SJDinPHX

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Your point is well taken, Dick, but played well 8ball, while familiar, is boring.

I've always thought that banks would be the best game for TV. That's always my gut feel when I watch Buddy Hall or Larry Nevel or John Brumbach play or when watching the last four guys at the DCC and one of them rips in a half dozen.

Lou Figueroa
Thats why I said it needed a little 'tweaking' to make it tougher for the pro's, but not so much as to be unrecognizable to the average Joe...Bank pool, while VERY simple to understand, would still be a "NEW" game to foist on them... Wouldn't you still have the casual redneck observer saying..."Look at that dummy Bubba, he had that 6 ball STRAIGHT IN, and the gall darn idiots a-banking it" :eek:

I am far from being a big fan of 8 ball, I rarely played it...But it is instantly recognizable, and you've already got untold 1000's of league players, who live and die by it every few day's.

One Game Mc Duck <--Could see Broombacker, and the other 3 or 4 bank pooler's heads swell up when you said that..Lou..:D
 
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petie

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Bolded is 100% the reason it took off, and it says a lot about us all too.

If you could get good enough at pool in a month to make it to the finals of a major, I have no doubt it would be big. It takes about 10 or 15 years to get to that level though, assuming you are blessed with the talent. I really think this says a a lot about us. Go way back in time and you have guys spending decades to perfect their crafts. Now we have ****s that sit in offices all day, perfecting nothing, and who don't want to spend even 5 minutes to actually get good at anything (except maybe a ridiculous video game). I know this now because I am in one of the offices, lol. I really believe that the popularity of poker vs pool speaks volumes about our society.
It was the hole card camera.
 

petie

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Thats why I said it needed a little 'tweaking' to make it tougher for the pro's, but not so much as to be unrecognizable to the average Joe...Bank pool, while VERY simple to understand, would still be a "NEW" game to foist on them... Wouldn't you still have the casual redneck observer saying..."Look at that dummy Bubba, he had that 6 ball STRAIGHT IN, and the gall darn idiots a-banking it" :eek:

I am far from being a big fan of 8 ball, I rarely played it...But it is instantly recognizable, and you've already got untold 1000's of league players, who live and die by it every few day's.

One Game Mc Duck <--Could see Broombacker, and the other 3 or 4 bank pooler's heads swell up when you said that..Lou..:D
I just watched an 8-Ball last pocket tournament for a couple of hours 2 Saturdays ago. Very interesting. I've played it a little but it was fun to see some of the late game situations play out. There's more to it than you might think.
 

demonrho

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... I just figured that since you mentioned 20 years of the magazine’s history you could, off the top of your head say, “There was the time that...” ...
And no, it’s not “stone cold obvious” that any corporations are “laughing off pool,” nor that the industry has made “desperate attempts to get sponsorship." ...
Lou Figueroa
Lou, the pool industry has constantly been obsessed with cleaning up its image in an attempt to attract sponsors. You can see this manifested in the pool magazines, on AZ Billiards, on onepocket.org, and even on this thread. I chalk up your denial of the obvious to your penchant for playing contrarian games. ;)

And, I find it highly amusing that someone from St. Louis, home of T.S. Eliot, does not understand why the metaphor "of laughing off" is appropriate to describe corporate America's refusal to take seriously the pool industry's pleas for sponsorship. Furthermore, as someone who has worked in the advertising industry, I can easily see the reaction among the marketing execs when some industry with a tarnished image like pool comes a courting for sponsorship.
 

demonrho

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...Pool had a similar shot at some success, but horrible management (or none at all) and the curtailment of cigarette advertising money, dealt pool a blow we may never recover from.

Whether you are in the "squeaky clean" or "warts and all" camp, pool will never reach those heights, without some form of effective organization... ...
SJD, you make some excellent points. If pool really wants sponsorship, serious outside business analysts need to be consulted. I don't know if this is true now, but the pool industry has been plagued in the past by self-destructive tendencies and lack of proper business acumen. (And no, Lou, I can't name every instance, but I do remember Don Mackey ;) )
 

Island Drive

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i have had this conversation with a lot of people. i'd like to see the top players who are (like it or not) ambassadors of the game dress like men also.

JG-in-KY DCC observation about the dress/professionalism of the european players was dead on.

i am too young to know first hand, but i have been told that willie masconi looked like he had just climbed out of a barbers chair and was dressed to the hilt whenever he played or made public appearances.

the world and our norms have changed, we don't need to go back to tuxedos or even ties, but what is wrong with dressing like you would on a job interview or a date?

-dustin "who still holds open doors for women" miller
:)
Actually these guys Are....''on the job'' like your said, and are front as representatives of our sport. Allot are there for Only the money, which is an inherent trait of most good pool players, but there are some that dressed great. Sigel, Liscotti, Diliberto, Rempe and Margo, Ronnie Allen and others. If they all made that extra effort and made sure they dressed to the tens...........The Women Do, gee I wonder Why? Cloths make the man is an old expression, but there's allot of truth to that. Like a new car making you and your friends feel good, dressing and looking sharp in your profession also supports it and portrays it the way it should appear to others. When it looks good it in turn, makes others also feel good.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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You guys should really give it a rest already. All of you keep saying the same thing "what's good for the game, what's good for the players?". Don't you realize the players are already doing what they want to do? They aren't looking for a job, this is their job. They enjoy being in action, they enjoy being rich one night and busted the next, it's what they love.

They go to the DCC not to enter and win the tournament but to gamble all night and show up hungover & tired for an early match. This is what they enjoy and they ain't changing for you.

You keep bringing up corporate sponsors. Which ones? How many questions would they ask before deciding that the player wasn't worthy?

1. Do you drink booze, on camera, during your matches? Oops.

2. Are there any videos out there of you acting like an idiot while drunk and/or high and playing pool? Oops.

3. How many children do you have in how many states by how many women that you don't take care of or even see? Oops.

4. Is it true that you've never had a job but you do have a wife/girlfriend who works and pays the bills? Oops.

Corporate sponsors, if there ever was one, would be looking to please Mr. & Mrs. Middle-Class America. This means a Willie Mosconi type, suit & tie, no gambling accusations, family man, and whatever else they look for. It doesn't mean Pseudo-Gangbanger who gambles all night and if he wins, spends his money on whores & a toot.

You guys keep talking about putting more money into the game. Is there anyone here who thinks that Alex still has even a quarter left of his share of his winnings? Not likely. That's what these guys love: gambling, winning or losing and then coming back and doing it again. Give 'em a break already with all this sanctimonious crap. They don't want or need your help or advice, they're doing what they want right now. Why can't you understand that? If tournament purses paid out like golf the only benefactors would be casinos and online poker sites.

The players love being broke one day and in money the next, they don't want your help or advice.

Dennis
 
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