What’s the rule?

[one pocket guy]

This never happened to me before and it may be cut and dry but….

I was in a gambling game playing CUE BALL FOULS ONLY and shot and the object ball banked back into my cue.
I struck it awfull and was watching the cue ball path and didn’t move my cue up “ basically stayed down on the shot” and the 11 ball came around into my cue shaft. Foul or No Foul?

 

[12squared]

I'm guessing foul. You interrupted the path of the object ball.

 

[NH Steve]

I'm guessing foul. You interrupted the path of the object ball.

Yes exactly. From our rules:

6. Fouls

6.1 Cue ball fouls only: When a referee is not presiding over the match, One Pocket may be played whereby disturbing a single object ball is not a foul, as long as there is no effect on the shot. For clarification, it is always a foul to disturb the cue ball, and it is also a foul if a disturbed ball has any effect on the shot; meaning if the disturbed ball has contact with any ball in motion, or if any ball passes through where the disturbed ball originated. It is always a foul when two or more balls are disturbed. When multiple (3 or more) balls are disturbed it is considered a serious foul. ref: 6.6.2 Serious fouls

 

[one pocket guy]

Thank you for verifying. I was unclear but thought that to be the the case.

 

[vapros]

I'm thinking it's a foul. That object ball might have affected the shot if you had not stopped it. I think that's how it would be decided.

 

[BOX]

Yes exactly. From our rules:

6. Fouls

6.1 Cue ball fouls only: When a referee is not presiding over the match, One Pocket may be played whereby disturbing a single object ball is not a foul, as long as there is no effect on the shot. For clarification, it is always a foul to disturb the cue ball, and it is also a foul if a disturbed ball has any effect on the shot; meaning if the disturbed ball has contact with any ball in motion, or if any ball passes through where the disturbed ball originated. It is always a foul when two or more balls are disturbed. When multiple (3 or more) balls are disturbed it is considered a serious foul. ref: 6.6.2 Serious fouls

 

[BOX]

I think we need more clarification this really does not answer the question i think

 

[sorackem]

I think we need more clarification this really does not answer the question i think

I think it reads clearly enough when I keep in mind two things;
I expect this allowance for disturbing 1 OB is meant to not ruin a rack over a minor mistake that has no real impact on the game in play. Such as bumping an OB that moves and comes to a rest without touching another ball.

And, in this situation, the OB that was disturbed was affected in such a way that we can not know how the rack has been impacted - where logically the infraction itself was ultimately the serious impact.

Wonder what a rule would look like that suggested an opponent can opt to either leave it as lies or place it on the predicted resting place.

 

[vapros]

the predicted resting place.

???

 

[beltsander bill]

foul, your stopping or redirecting the ob. with your cue or anything else should be a foul.

 

[NH Steve]

I think we need more clarification this really does not answer the question i think

... or maybe less clarification. I believe it is clearly a foul since disturbing a moving object ball clearly "has an effect on the shot" -- which is what the rules say, before they start clarifying the usual questions about what if...

 

[povpool]

When you’re gambling, you get to dispute every official rule unless it’s discussed beforehand. It’s important to stipulate every little niche of the rules with your opponent beforehand. You could argue the same if a ball were to fly off the table. If it’s not the cue ball that came off, you could argue that it’s not a foul.

When it comes to this particular rule while gambling, I like to discuss all foul scenarios.
1. Touching a moving ball (foul).
2. Any ball comes off the table (foul)
3. Shooting the cue ball ahead of the kitchen line whether it’s base of ball or whole ball. (Foul)
4. Double hits (foul)
5. Cue ball pocket scratch (foul).
6. Accidentally touching more than one ball other than the cue ball. (Foul)

If I don’t know my opponent, I’m gonna cover this clearly. To merely state ‘cue ball’ foul only is quite vague when you have money on a match.

 

[Renegade_56]

Then what does "Cue Ball Fouls Only" mean?

 

[one pocket guy]

Then what does "Cue Ball Fouls Only" mean?

That was my contention originally in the heat of battle.

 

[12squared]

Deleted

 

[12squared]

Then what does "Cue Ball Fouls Only" mean?

My understanding: The main difference between all ball fouls and cue ball fouls only is all ball fouls are called if a piece of clothing touches any ball inadvertently or your hand/cue/chalk touches any ball. Refs are typically required to watch and call such touches. If playing cue ball fouls only, none of those are fouls if only one ball is involved.

All other fouls are still in play such as this case where the object ball path is altered in any way once the stroke is completed.

 

[Renegade_56]

My understanding: The main difference between all ball fouls and cue ball fouls only is all ball fouls are called if a piece of clothing touches any ball inadvertently or your hand/cue/chalk touches any ball. Refs are typically required to watch and call such touches. If playing cue ball fouls only, none of those are fouls if only one ball is involved.

All other fouls are still in play such as this case where the object ball path is altered in any way once the stroke is completed.

Thanks