The wisdom of Squeeze...

[gulfportdoc]

I'm beginning to see the light: the wisdom of Squeeze. A while back I was playing a guy who is a better 9-ball player than I, but he hasn't played a lot of one-pocket. However he has great pool sense and an intuitive ability to discern the right shots, even though he hasn't seen them over and over.

Anyway every time I tried to shoot a risky shot and miss, he'd put 5 or 6 balls on me, which ulitimately either caused him to win the rack, or to put me in deep trouble. Even if I had him 7-0, and try a flyer, BOOM-- all of a sudden it's 7-5, and I'm struggling to get back in control.

Whenever I'd lose a game that way, I was determined to torture him the next game. I'd put on the squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, until he'd sell out. I'd usually win those racks by a wide margin.

My point is that I eventually just kept playing a predominantly squeeze game, which allowed me to win the majority of racks.

I'll never be a squeeze-fiend like Jimmy Fusco, but I think I'm finally facing facts. So kudos to Fred B. and One Pocket Ghost. Long live the Chicago style!

Doc

 

[fred bentivegna]

Sadistic bent

Sadistic bent

I'm beginning to see the light: the wisdom of Squeeze. A while back I was playing a guy who is a better 9-ball player than I, but he hasn't played a lot of one-pocket. However he has great pool sense and an intuitive ability to discern the right shots, even though he hasn't seen them over and over.

Anyway every time I tried to shoot a risky shot and miss, he'd put 5 or 6 balls on me, which ulitimately either caused him to win the rack, or to put me in deep trouble. Even if I had him 7-0, and try a flyer, BOOM-- all of a sudden it's 7-5, and I'm struggling to get back in control.

Whenever I'd lose a game that way, I was determined to torture him the next game. I'd put on the squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, until he'd sell out. I'd usually win those racks by a wide margin.
My point is that I eventually just kept playing a predominantly squeeze game, which allowed me to win the majority of racks.

I'll never be a squeeze-fiend like Jimmy Fusco, but I think I'm finally facing facts. So kudos to Fred B. and One Pocket Ghost. Long live the Chicago style!


To properly administer that style you must have a sadistic mentality.

the Beard

 

[gulfportdoc]

To properly administer that style you must have a sadistic mentality.

Perhaps that's the difference in the two types of play. The shooter likes to make balls and to figure out intricate patterns in order to run 8 and out. The mover basically likes to delay, frustrate and obfuscate, until his opponent loses the ability to make an 18" straight-in!

Doc

 

[jrhendy]

Perhaps that's the difference in the two types of play. The shooter likes to make balls and to figure out intricate patterns in order to run 8 and out. The mover basically likes to delay, frustrate and obfuscate, until his opponent loses the ability to make an 18" straight-in!

Doc

I play a very defensive game and can usually beat my opponent to the first shot. The problem with my game anymore is the longer I go into my defensive game, the harder it is for me to come with a tough shot when I need to. Depending on who I am playing and the amount we play for, I adjust my style and get more agressive sometimes to maintain my ability to run balls. I play /gamble with players who can go eight & out on a regular basis if you keep them loose by giving them enough shots. "The Squeeze" slows down their ability to do this, but it also slows me down.

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

So kudos to Fred B. and One Pocket Ghost. Long live the Chicago style!

Doc

Thanks Doc, but actually you've got my One Pocket philosophy wrong.....I don't play, advocate or teach an 'all-defense don't-shoot-at-your-hole extreme-squeeze' style of play......Speaking to that, here's an excerpt from my "Theory of Correct One Pocket Play" that I posted last year >>>


"……First off I want to say that I’ve been annoyed for years by all of this debating about which is right, or better, the 'Chicago/Philly/Old School' never shoot at your hole squeeze style of one pocket, or the so-called modern/left coast aggressive fire at your hole style of one pocket….Well, the reason it bugs me is because this ongoing debate speaks as if these are the only two philosophies to subscribe to, when in fact neither style is correct – the correct way to play one pocket is a combination of both of those styles, meaning….

...When playing/thinking at the very highest level of one pocket, you will have a perfect melding of those two styles in your head to employ every time that you step to the table – which of these styles will take precedence in any one game, or on any one inning of yours at the table, will be constantly in flux....also, to play one pocket at this level you need a very high level of creativity/imagination, and determination/strength of purpose….

Your shot choice should always be predicated on your correct analysis of several key factors, the main ones being: Table layout, ball score, match score, pocket size, who's breaking next, and the one pocket style, skill level, heart (or lack of), and ego indulging tendencies of your opponent….And of course all shot choices must factor in your own skill set/abilities."

- Ghost

 

[SJDinPHX]

Thanks Doc, but actually you've got my One Pocket philosophy wrong.....I don't play, advocate or teach an 'all-defense don't-shoot-at-your-hole extreme-squeeze' style of play......Speaking to that, here's an excerpt from my "theory of correct One Pocket play" that I posted last year....


"……First off I want to say that I’ve been annoyed for years by all of this debating about which is right, or better, the 'Chicago/Philly/Old School' never shoot at your hole squeeze style of one pocket, or the so-called modern/left coast aggressive fire at your hole style of one pocket….Well, the reason it bugs me is because this ongoing debate speaks as if these are the only two philosophies to subscribe to, when in fact neither style is correct – the correct way to play one pocket is a combination of both of those styles….

…..When playing/thinking at the very highest level of one pocket, you will have a perfect melding of those two styles in your head to employ every time that you step to the table – also, to play one pocket at this level you need a very high level of creativity/imagination….Which of these styles will take precedence on any one inning of yours at the table will be constantly in flux.

Your shot choice should always be predicated on your correct analysis of several key factors, the main ones being: Table layout, ball score, match score, pocket size, and the one pocket style, skill level, heart (or lack of), and ego indulging tendencies of your opponent….And of course all shot choices must factor in your own skill set/abilities."

- Ghost

Ghost, An absolutely perfect description of how one pocket should be played.
Like John Hend. RA and others, I played a fair mix of both styles, but favored
the West coast style until I could no longer run 8 and out. Then self preservation set in. Frustrating your opponent only allows you to beat them to the shot... you still have to make it.

Dick

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

Ghost, An absolutely perfect description of how one pocket should be played.

Dick

Thanks, Dick

Frustrating your opponent only allows you to beat them to the shot... you still have to make it. Dick

Ain't it the truth.

 

[Mike]

Even Efren needs to pay more attention to the "wisdom of the squeeze"!!!

 

[SJDinPHX]

C'mon Efren, you can do it!

C'mon Efren, you can do it!

Even Efren needs to pay more attention to the "wisdom of the squeeze"!!!

That is very true Mike. We,ve all watched Efren, of late, lose games, (and matches) that player's far less skilled than him would have won from the same spot. I hope he is not at a point in his career, (or life) where he just
plays the game without the intensity that made him one of the greatest of all time. I would like to see him adjust to a little more defensive strategy and
return to his winning ways. He is way too good a human being, and player, to not give it his best shot in the (hopefully) many years he has left as a popular champion.

Dick

 

[yobagua]

I know you got me Dick in that Scott Frost/Efren match but I should have considered that no one put up there own money. When Efren came back to LA before he left for the Phillipines he set up 2 matches with top players. One an experienced hardened road player who I have not see lose for the cabbage for a long time. Efren was playing for his own money. His good friend staked him but this was money Efren was taking back home. They were for 500 jellybeans each and on two seperate sides of the city. He flew in that morning and took down his first opponent in the guys own room then crossed the city and played some of the tightest lock down one pocket I ever seen.

He gave this road player 9/6. On paper this road player looks real good. Efren lost the first game and the guy never saw a shot for the next 45 minutes ( i might be exaggerating here but this is what it felt like) and when he did he miscued he was playing safeties for so long. Efren won the next 3 games. There was a lot on the rail and Efren walked away with a good deal of it.

I seen him play with Luat, Andam, Parica, in a partners game for their own cash. They played so tight Freddy would have been in heaven. When they had to take the cash out of their pocket they had to reach way down there the moths were coming up with it. Jeez! Dont worry when Efren plays for his own money he will clamp down on the game.

 

[SJDinPHX]

I know you got me Dick in that Scott Frost/Efren match but I should have considered that no one put up there own money. When Efren came back to LA before he left for the Phillipines he set up 2 matches with top players. One an experienced hardened road player who I have not see lose for the cabbage for a long time. Efren was playing for his own money. His good friend staked him but this was money Efren was taking back home. They were for 500 jellybeans each and on two seperate sides of the city. He flew in that morning and took down his first opponent in the guys own room then crossed the city and played some of the tightest lock down one pocket I ever seen.

He gave this road player 9/6. On paper this road player looks real good. Efren lost the first game and the guy never saw a shot for the next 45 minutes ( i might be exaggerating here but this is what it felt like) and when he did he miscued he was playing safeties for so long. Efren won the next 3 games. There was a lot on the rail and Efren walked away with a good deal of it.

I seen him play with Luat, Andam, Parica, in a partners game for their own cash. They played so tight Freddy would have been in heaven. When they had to take the cash out of their pocket they had to reach way down there the moths were coming up with it. Jeez! Dont worry when Efren plays for his own money he will clamp down on the game.

That's good news YB. He's way too good a player not to shoot the right shot in any given situation. I just felt he wasn't giving it his best in recent tournament play. His 2nd best will still beat most top guns.IMO

Dick

 

[fred bentivegna]

Getting staked-- fast and loose

Getting staked-- fast and loose

I know you got me Dick in that Scott Frost/Efren match but I should have considered that no one put up there own money. When Efren came back to LA before he left for the Phillipines he set up 2 matches with top players. One an experienced hardened road player who I have not see lose for the cabbage for a long time. Efren was playing for his own money. His good friend staked him but this was money Efren was taking back home. They were for 500 jellybeans each and on two seperate sides of the city. He flew in that morning and took down his first opponent in the guys own room then crossed the city and played some of the tightest lock down one pocket I ever seen.

He gave this road player 9/6. On paper this road player looks real good. Efren lost the first game and the guy never saw a shot for the next 45 minutes ( i might be exaggerating here but this is what it felt like) and when he did he miscued he was playing safeties for so long. Efren won the next 3 games. There was a lot on the rail and Efren walked away with a good deal of it.

I seen him play with Luat, Andam, Parica, in a partners game for their own cash. They played so tight Freddy would have been in heaven. When they had to take the cash out of their pocket they had to reach way down there the moths were coming up with it. Jeez! Dont worry when Efren plays for his own money he will clamp down on the game.

I'm in total agreement with that. When you are getting staked is when you are supposed to be fast and loose. I learned that at a late age in hustling, unfortunately. Peter Rabbit finally woke me up in Detroit when I was about 35. Before that when I used to get staked I would play even tighter than normal. The Rabbit told me getting staked was like getting raped, the most practical thing to do is to relax and enjoy it. Efren also exposed the power of OP (other peoples) when we were playing once. He was betting his own and I was pounding him and was about 5 or 6 games ahead. A backer walked in and Effy immediately put him into action. It didnt make sense to me at the time because my rationale was now he has to win either 10 or twelve games to get even because now he's only playing for half the money. Effy's energy, confidence, difficult shot selection and speed went up immediately. He won back the 5 or 6 I was ahead in a blur. I was so pissed about it I was able to foil him and quit even, leaving him still stuck, but me being much smarter for the experience. Nobody ever got to do that to me again.

the Beard

 

[SJDinPHX]

I'm in total agreement with that. When you are getting staked is when you are supposed to be fast and loose. I learned that at a late age in hustling, unfortunately. Peter Rabbit finally woke me up in Detroit when I was about 35. Before that when I used to get staked I would play even tighter than normal. The Rabbit told me getting staked was like getting raped, the most practical thing to do is to relax and enjoy it. Efren also exposed the power of OP (other peoples) when we were playing once. He was betting his own and I was pounding him and was about 5 or 6 games ahead. A backer walked in and Effy immediately put him into action. It didnt make sense to me at the time because my rationale was now he has to win either 10 or twelve games to get even because now he's only playing for half the money. Effy's energy, confidence, difficult shot selection and speed went up immediately. He won back the 5 or 6 I was ahead in a blur. I was so pissed about it I was able to foil him and quit even, leaving him still stuck, but me being much smarter for the experience. Nobody ever got to do that to me again.

the Beard

Freddy, I perfectly understand the hustler mentality, and I am not trying to sound like a "goodie two shoes", but I always felt that if a friend (or even a stranger) had enough confidence in me to lay 2 to 1 on the money, he deserved my best shot. I tended to play faster and looser on my own cash than I did when getting staked. Some times I lost by putting too much pressure on myself to perform my best for a stake horse especially when there were big $$$$ involved. Fortunately, I usually played my own cash, but either way, I slept good at night.

Dick

 

[fred bentivegna]

You proved my point

You proved my point

Freddy, I perfectly understand the hustler mentality, and I am not trying to sound like a "goodie two shoes", but I always felt that if a friend (or even a stranger) had enough confidence in me to lay 2 to 1 on the money, he deserved my best shot. I tended to play faster and looser on my own cash than I did when getting staked. Some times I lost by putting too much pressure on myself to perform my best for a stake horse especially when there were big $$$$ involved. Fortunately, I usually played my own cash, but either way, I slept good at night.

Dick

That was the thing I learned from Peter Rabbit. I used to put too much pressure on myself when I got staked also. Rabbit told me that backers didnt want to see you playing tight and tentative, they really wanted you to be bold and daring. They wanted you to be what they couldnt be. For example, think of how careful Ronnie was with OP. Just think back, all the wildest players had the most and best backers, Louie Roberts, Keith, Ronnie etc.

the Beard

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

Refer to my post #19 in the... "Can we get a show of replies, for who doesn't see these balls?" ...thread.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Ghost, An absolutely perfect description of how one pocket should be played.
Like John Hend. RA and others, I played a fair mix of both styles, but favored
the West coast style until I could no longer run 8 and out. Then self preservation set in. Frustrating your opponent only allows you to beat them to the shot... you still have to make it.

Dick

I've never seen a Duck trapped by a Ghost...till now .

 

[SJDinPHX]

I've never seen a Duck trapped by a Ghost...till now .

RBL-AYFC-razy...????

This thread is from back when we were somewhat cognisant, of the other persons feelings. I don't understand your take on this, (but then,I rarely do)

Thr odds of the Ghost outsmarting me at, Charades, Trivial Pursuit, Monopoly, Checkers, or any game requiering extreme mental dexterity, are almost zilch.

One pocket could be another story...I will admit, if in our primes...I gave him like 8 to 6, he may have had a prayer of breaking even.

 

[lll]

RBL-AYFC-razy...????

This thread is from back when we were somewhat cognisant, of the other persons feelings.

ah the good old days

 

[SJDinPHX]

ah the good old days

lll, could you, or anyone... tell me how to isolate one line, or a paragraph, out of a post you are responding to...(serious question)

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

lll, could you, or anyone... tell me how to isolate one line, or a paragraph, out of a post you are responding to...(serious question)

Well Papie, for a start, I can show you what it should look like... >>>

Ghost, An absolutely perfect description of how one pocket should be played.


Dick