Starting a 1P league - feedback wanted

[GriffinG]

Hello all!
I don't post much, but I do plenty of lurking (err... learning) when I can. I am in the process of starting a handicapped 1P league in my local pool room and I've done the best I can putting together what I think I'll need to run a successful league. I wanted to share what I've put together with you so that I may solicit your feedback. (Full disclosure: part of my process was researching existing leagues and their systems/handicapping/etc for good ideas. I ended up coming up with a handicap system that utilizes the long count handicaps on the site which correlate with rankings. I used some basic scoring ideas i found in a California league and expanded them slightly to allow for how I will handicap.)
Attached are screenshots (I'd be more than happy to share actual docs with you via email but I can't seem to post those file types here) from the scoring page, an example handicap, and the league rules. I have other docs that didn't bear including such as a schedule, a sheet to track match results, a payout scale, etc.
I really do appreciate anyone taking the time to give this a look and share their thoughts. Good, bad or otherwise, I will value what you have to say. I am by no means an expert, just a motivated lover of the game.
Thank you

 

[FrenchAT]

If youd like to be able to go home at some point on the day or night of the league you may want to institute the 5th ball below the head string getting spotted. Otherwise, you're going to be there all damn night.

 

[GriffinG]

Thank you, I did see that used elsewhere and we kicked it around a lot. Even asked some of the players to weigh in on that rule and what they'd prefer. Ultimately, we ended up saying we'd try it without this season and see how that goes. Figured since the matches will be anywhere from 3-5 games total, starting at 7pm would get them wrapped up in 3-4 hours the majority of the time. Do you agree with that assessment?

 

[u12armresl]

Hi Griffin G,

Who up there plays 1 hole?
I drove up looking for a game awhile back, and ended up going to Red Shoes because there was no one to play. Well, there was the I can call someone, but we all know how that usually ends up for the person who is already there.

Thank you, I did see that used elsewhere and we kicked it around a lot. Even asked some of the players to weigh in on that rule and what they'd prefer. Ultimately, we ended up saying we'd try it without this season and see how that goes. Figured since the matches will be anywhere from 3-5 games total, starting at 7pm would get them wrapped up in 3-4 hours the majority of the time. Do you agree with that assessment?

 

[LSJohn]

Hello all!
I am in the process of starting a handicapped 1P league in my local pool room and I've done the best I can putting together what I think I'll need to run a successful league.

Thank you

Good work.

With your scale for match-ups based on handicap differential I think you may be leaving the better players with more advantage than you'd prefer. I would start with 8-7 and go down from there. In your bigger differential -- 6-7-8-9 -- match-ups, I think your weaker players will almost never win a game.

I think I would do:

8-7
9-7
8-6
9-6
8-5
9-5
8-4
9-4
8-3

Small advantage: no balls spotted to reach 16, less confusion, faster games. Weaker players will win more games, though, so matches may run about the same time as with your match-ups.

 

[GriffinG]

Starting a 1P league - feedback wanted

You make a really good point. Let me think that through using a couple local player examples and see what the difference looks like each way. Thank you!


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[gulfportdoc]

Good work.

With your scale for match-ups based on handicap differential I think you may be leaving the better players with more advantage than you'd prefer. I would start with 8-7 and go down from there. In your bigger differential -- 6-7-8-9 -- match-ups, I think your weaker players will almost never win a game.

...

Yeah, John, IMO your handicaps are much more realistic. Plus they avoid the real long count games, like to 20 balls.

I've always been inclined to limit the levels to 3 or 4; 5 max. There are many fewer arguments about expertise level that way. Yet the fewer levels were always for single events. With league play such as Griffin's, there is plenty of time to fine tune player's levels.

Players will still whine and moan, because that's what pool players do best, but the more numerous levels will probably provide for better match ups.

I'm thinking of the system that Lenny's people use out in Arizona. You can be sure they all watch those handicaps like hawks. But the matchups seem to be pretty reasonable.

~Doc

 

[GriffinG]

Starting a 1P league - feedback wanted

Thank you guys. So just to make sure I'm tracking here, you're saying that these short count handicaps are more favorable to the lower end players. As in, it's easier for them to achieve a smaller ball count than it is difficult for the better players to achieve a higher ball count.
In this league, the extremes will be Ike runnels and Dennis hatch, followed closely by an excellent local player. In the middle would be myself and a few others and there are a couple very recreational players who just want to learn to play the game.
Do you feel like the list LSJohn suggested is where the handicaps should stay?
I would love to see Lenny's list that you reference. Any idea how to find that?


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[GriffinG]

Here's how I came up with the handicap calculation...
one of the tracked stats is ball count which is then figured as balls per game. also tracked are % of matches won and % of games won, each would be a max of 1. with those 3 items added together, you'd get a # (generally on a 1-10 scale but could go slightly higher using long count game) and that would be rounded to their rating. See "Joe Example" on the league roster page above.

That being said, I would appreciate you guys' feedback on these 3 handicap ladder options below. One is my original, one is the HCs suggested by LS John, and the 3rd is a hybrid.
Which of these would help make the game the most fair for the lower-end players? ones which would be 5, 6, 7, 8 spots down the chart.

 

[gulfportdoc]

Thank you guys. So just to make sure I'm tracking here, you're saying that these short count handicaps are more favorable to the lower end players. As in, it's easier for them to achieve a smaller ball count than it is difficult for the better players to achieve a higher ball count.
In this league, the extremes will be Ike runnels and Dennis hatch, followed closely by an excellent local player. In the middle would be myself and a few others and there are a couple very recreational players who just want to learn to play the game.
Do you feel like the list LSJohn suggested is where the handicaps should stay?
I would love to see Lenny's list that you reference. Any idea how to find that?

Yes, Email Lenny. His screen name is "Fast lenny". A super nice fellah. He'll help you in any way that he can.

~Doc

 

[LSJohn]

Which of these would help make the game the most fair for the lower-end players? ones which would be 5, 6, 7, 8 spots down the chart.

"Most fair" complicates my answer a little bit, but I think it is a universal that reducing the number of balls required helps a weaker player more than adding to the number of balls required hurts the better player. IOW, if a game is even at 8-5, the better player would have the nutz at 20-17. (double nutz!)

So (surprise! ) I'm sticking with my chart.

 

[JeaLouS44]

Handicaps............

Handicaps............

Diamond Billiards
in Virginia had a really good handicapped chart
in a tourney I played there.
I am sure they would share it with you.
Diamond Billiards
Thomas Dorsey
13184 Midlothian Tpke Midlothian, VA 23113
804.794.8787

 

[Fast Lenny]

This is the grid based slightly on the Arizona ratings but anyone could use it. You could just change it from 6 to 10-4 to 1 to 9.

 

[GriffinG]

thank you Lenny

 

[GriffinG]

Diamond Billiards
in Virginia had a really good handicapped chart
in a tourney I played there.
I am sure they would share it with you.
Diamond Billiards
Thomas Dorsey
13184 Midlothian Tpke Midlothian, VA 23113
804.794.8787

Thank you!