Scratch on the Break--Rerack, no Foul

Blake Goodall

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Joined
May 8, 2005
Messages
5
Don Coates Memorial 1-P and 9-Ball, Brass Tap and Billiards, Raleigh, NC
Justin Bergman vs David Ferguson. Justin breaks and scratches. Confusion
reigns. Tournament director rules that Justin breaks again without penalty.
I asked him about that ruling and he told me that the pros voted in this new
rule because they felt that 1-P was getting too easy for the pros, and the
pockets on the tournament tables were too generous, although he himself
didn't agree with the rule change.
Comments? Discussion?
 

lll

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Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
15,375
the newer rules of re rack if you make one on the break
i dont agree with
why penalize the player who gets the roll??
but
if they are using that rule
you re-rack if one is made
than i think you should re rack if you scratch
this way
you don't get the advantage if you make one
and your opponent doesnt get the advantage if you scratch

if the rule was only re rack for scratches than i dont agree with it either
why should the opponent be penalized for your bad break or not checking the rack??
jmho
icbw
 

Mkbtank

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Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
5,328
Scratch on the Break--Rerack, no Foul

Seems crazy. If the logic is that it's too easy, why take away a rule which penalizes? Maybe they are thinking the incoming player will have too many shots?
 

LSJohn

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Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
7,882
Don Coates Memorial 1-P and 9-Ball, Brass Tap and Billiards, Raleigh, NC
Justin Bergman vs David Ferguson. Justin breaks and scratches. Confusion
reigns. Tournament director rules that Justin breaks again without penalty.
I asked him about that ruling and he told me that the pros voted in this new
rule because they felt that 1-P was getting too easy for the pros, and the
pockets on the tournament tables were too generous, although he himself
didn't agree with the rule change.
Comments? Discussion?
If it wasn't made clear in the pre-tournament players' meeting it should have been. Whether it's a good rule depends upon whether a scratch on the break is mostly bad luck or mostly bad shot. I've seen arguments both ways and don't know the answer.

I've scratched when I thought I had made a perfect hit with that perfect sound.
 

Jeff sparks

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Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
3,036
Don Coates Memorial 1-P and 9-Ball, Brass Tap and Billiards, Raleigh, NC
Justin Bergman vs David Ferguson. Justin breaks and scratches. Confusion
reigns. Tournament director rules that Justin breaks again without penalty.
I asked him about that ruling and he told me that the pros voted in this new
rule because they felt that 1-P was getting too easy for the pros, and the
pockets on the tournament tables were too generous, although he himself
didn't agree with the rule change.
Comments? Discussion?
I'm old school, you scratch, you owe a ball, you make one on the break, you keep shooting.

People are always looking to change things, rarely for the betterment of the game.

The ball on the break rerack rule is a rule change that the better players want enforced, IMO, simply because it's not a defendable position. You lose the lag or the flip and you take a seat. Your opponent opens em up, makes one & runs 8 & out. Now if you are the better player, and a big favorite to win, then you want to neutralize this chance for your opponent to win the game in this fashion. I understand why they want this rule in effect, it reduces their chances of losing without having a say so in the loss.

Scratching on the break.... No foul.... Rerack!!! C'mon..... What's next?
Call every shot.... No kisses.... Everything goes clean... Imaginations out the window. Not!!

The rules of the game are in pretty good shape IMO, but could stand a little tweaking in the time allowed to shoot area. To an insider, a player, someone intimately familiar with the game and it's moves and strategies, it might not bother him if someone takes an inordinate amount of time to select and shoot a shot. Otoh, it might bother him and could very well be used as a weapon, an unfair advantage against him. I'm not advocating a 30 second shot clock, but in fairness to all players, something could be put in place to not only make this part of the game fair to each player, but also to the newcomers ( fans ) who are the next generation players, the future one holers. 60, maybe 90 second shot clock?

Sorry about the mis-direction, ie; the Hi-Jack.
 

Blake Goodall

Verified Member
Joined
May 8, 2005
Messages
5
A couple of observations.
1. When I said that "Confusion reigned," I was referring to the fact that
neither player appeared to know the rule, despite the fact that they
were at the players meeting (?) and voted on the rule (?). Instead spectators
jumped in and offered their opinions. Order was finally restored when
the TD made his ruling. David's reaction: "Well, you just dodged a
bullet." Justin just shrugged and said, "I've never heard of that rule."
2. There are players who use rules real or imagined to distract and confuse
their opponents. I call them "Rules Sharks." And there are players who
like to see how far they can push the rules, and in doing so disrupt their opponent's concentration.
3. Do I need to add this new rule to my list of rule clarifications before I
start a game, just to make sure I don't get blindsided midgame?
 

stedyfred

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Joined
Apr 13, 2012
Messages
197
Make your Coates Memorial a nine ball tournament; one pocket doesn't need any rules changes that take away from the integrity of the game. Enjoy.
 

gulfportdoc

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Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
9,989
Scratching on the break should be a penalty because players ought to be able to avoid it. There's no excuse. OTOH I can see why they'd want to institute a re-rack if an object ball is made on the break-- simply because it's not a skill shot.

Contrary to what some assert, making a ball on the break cannot be perfected, cannot be practiced on most equipment. The break is already an advantage. In a game presumed to be a game of skill, why allow the breaker a lucky chance to win on his break shot, especially in the short race tournament format? Even in Texas Express type 9-ball, which is essentially a game of chance, many events spot the 9 if it's made in the bottom two pockets.

Of course in stakes competition guys should do whatever they want.

~Doc
 

beatle

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Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
2,585
any game where you make it so the better player has too big of an edge makes the game less enjoyable for the other player and also for the spectators as the outcome is basically decided before the game starts.
in pool tournaments the top few players take all the money down almost every single tournament.

and allowing the taking of a lot of time to make decisions ruins it for all as well.
 

Cowboy Dennis

Suspended
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
11,123
A couple of observations.
1. When I said that "Confusion reigned," I was referring to the fact that
neither player appeared to know the rule, despite the fact that they
were at the players meeting (?) and voted on the rule (?). Instead spectators
jumped in and offered their opinions. Order was finally restored when
the TD made his ruling. David's reaction: "Well, you just dodged a
bullet." Justin just shrugged and said, "I've never heard of that rule."
2. There are players who use rules real or imagined to distract and confuse
their opponents. I call them "Rules Sharks." And there are players who
like to see how far they can push the rules, and in doing so disrupt their opponent's concentration.
3. Do I need to add this new rule to my list of rule clarifications before I
start a game, just to make sure I don't get blindsided midgame?
Poolplayers who want to bring their "tournament rules" to a poolroom should shoot themselves in the head. Who cares what funsy tourney players do about anything?

I still remember the first imbecile I played who thought an object ball jumped off the table was a foul. Last I heard he was trying to hustle my co-workers for $2 a game 9 Ball on a bartable.

Dennis
 
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