Scott Frost vs. Louis DeMarco 2003 D.C.C.

wincardona

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Very good question.

Very good question.

It's DeMarco's shot and he has a decision to make. Which ball would you shoot?

View attachment 5563

View attachment 5564
This situation is very interesting, and depending on the speed of the players imo should determine what shot to shoot.

If we're talking about a player that plays as well as DeMarco, then deciding what to shoot is a tough decision. He would like to shoot the 2 ball and run out, but if missed then Frost would be the favorite. But then if he shoots the 7 ball cross corner and makes it he's still in a battle. It all depends on how he feels about banking the 2 ball. If he is even money to make the bank I would shoot it, if not I would bank the 7 ball.

For weaker players I think banking the 7 ball is an easy decision, reason being that the two banks are close in difficulty, with the 7 a little easier, but a 3 to 1 ball advantage for weaker players is huge. That's what the score would be for the shooter to bank the 7 ball and score.

Dr. Bill
 
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wincardona

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This situation is very interesting, and depending on the speed of the players imo should determine what shot to shoot.

If we're talking about a player that plays as well as DeMarco, then deciding what to shoot is a tough decision. He would like to shoot the 2 ball and run out, but if missed then Frost would be the favorite. But then if he shoots the 7 ball cross corner and makes it he's still in a battle. It all depends on how he feels about banking the 2 ball. If he is even money to make the bank I would shoot it, if not I would bank the 7 ball.

For weaker players I think banking the 7 ball is an easy decision, reason being that the two banks are close in difficulty, with the 7 a little easier, but a 3 to 1 ball advantage for weaker players is huge. That's what the score would be for the shooter to bank the 7 ball and score.

Dr. Bill
It would be very hard for me to shoot any other ball other than the 7 ball.:eek:

Dr. Bill
 

Banks

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I don't think it's going to get much easier than the 2 8 7 staring you right in the face..
 

NH Steve

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You have a great angle on the 2 and plenty of room to bridge -- I think you have to BELIEVE you can bury the 2 and then the 8. Shooting the 7 looks very tentative, for the game of Banks. One Pocket players naturally would like the 7 :D
 

New 2 You Qs

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If you consider yourself a bank pool player, looking to run 3 here is the only decision that should enter your mind, starting with the 2 ball.
 

fred bentivegna

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Needing 3

Needing 3

If DeMarco didnt shoot the 2, you could knock me over with DuckBrains YK breath. Angle on the two is laying to draw the cBall back to the rail and out between the 7 and the 8, and probably go out from there.

The 7 ball IS the easiest shot, but I would only shoot it if I needed MORE, or Less than 3. More because you cant get out anyway, might as well cinch up your inning with the easiest shot. Less, being needing one or two. One, obvously because it is the easiest shot of the 3. Why? Because there is little angle to the shot and the object ball is closer to the rail than the 2. Needing two, again because the 7 is the easiest and will put me on the hill and even tho I may run into the 8 ball, I should have a decent shot to make one more. Going into that ball might screw up my chances to to run all three, but no matter, I only need two.

Beard
 

wincardona

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If DeMarco didnt shoot the 2, you could knock me over with DuckBrains YK breath. Angle on the two is laying to draw the cBall back to the rail and out between the 7 and the 8, and probably go out from there. Looks to me all he needs to do is stop the cue ball for position on either the 7 ball or 8 ball. If I had to draw the cue ball to the rail and out, I would for sure shoot the 7 ball.

The 7 ball IS the easiest shot, but I would only shoot it if I needed MORE, or Less than 3. More because you cant get out anyway, might as well cinch up your inning with the easiest shot. Less, being needing one or two. One, obvously because it is the easiest shot of the 3. Why? Because there is little angle to the shot and the object ball is closer to the rail than the 2. Needing two, again because the 7 is the easiest and will put me on the hill and even tho I may run into the 8 ball, I should have a decent shot to make one more. Going into that ball might screw up my chances to to run all three, but no matter, I only need two. I agree with your reasoning to shoot the 7 ball needing only one or two balls, you're risking too much to pick up one or two balls, by choosing the 2 ball.. But I strongly disagree with your reasoning to not shoot the 2 ball if you need more than three balls. On the contrary I feel that you should shoot the 2 ball quicker needing four or five balls, than if you only needed three balls.

Beard
If i'm even money or better i'm shooting the 2 ball, i've already stated that. But I don't understand why you wouldn't shoot the 2 ball if you needed four or five balls.:confused: That to me is way over my head.:eek: The reason to shoot the 2 ball is because it offers a big reward, the more balls you need the more appealing the 2 ball should be, imo. Needing only one or two balls I would have to be a big favorite to bank the 2 ball and make it before shooting the 7 ball. My decision on that would be what I am risking as opposed to what i'm gaining by shooting the 2 ball, leading 3 or 4 to 1 in the score.

Please don't tell me that if you needed 5 balls from this position you wouldn't shoot the 2 ball.:frus Please don't tell me that.:sorry

Dr. Bill
 

lll

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on a scale of 1-10
1 being easiest
10 most difficult
where do you put banking the 2 ball???
 

fred bentivegna

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I see a different angle

I see a different angle

If i'm even money or better i'm shooting the 2 ball, i've already stated that. But I don't understand why you wouldn't shoot the 2 ball if you needed four or five balls.:confused: That to me is way over my head.:eek: The reason to shoot the 2 ball is because it offers a big reward, the more balls you need the more appealing the 2 ball should be, imo. Needing only one or two balls I would have to be a big favorite to bank the 2 ball and make it before shooting the 7 ball. My decision on that would be what I am risking as opposed to what i'm gaining by shooting the 2 ball, leading 3 or 4 to 1 in the score.

Please don't tell me that if you needed 5 balls from this position you wouldn't shoot the 2 ball.:frus Please don't tell me that.:sorry

Dr. Bill
As I see it. the 2 ball must be cut back slightly in order to make it. It does not look to me as if you could shoot it and stop dead. Either way the 7 ball is an easier shot. Believe a' you, me.:sorry

Beard

If I knew I was in dead stroke I would possibly go for the 2 needing 4 or more.
To me the 7 is such a hanger it is hard to pass it up.
 

lll

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on a scale of 1-10
1 being easiest
10 most difficult
where do you put banking the 2 ball???
i was writing while you were posting freddy
this is not just for you to answer
 

wincardona

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on a scale of 1-10
1 being easiest
10 most difficult
where do you put banking the 2 ball???
Sorry Larry, but you cannot put a make percentage on making the 2 ball that would apply to everybody. Depending on the players skills and ability will determine the make percentage. You must figure out what your make percentage is, and make your decision based off of that. I would say that leading 2 to 1 in the ball count playing a player that played equal to you, (above average player) you would have to be at least even money 50% 50% to shoot it.

Shot choice decisions vary, depending on the skill of the players, and the score of the game. If you're behind and the reward for shooting a shot is a great one, you can afford to take a chance and shoot a lower percentage shot. But if you were leading in the game and the same shot came up, it may not be the right thing to do. This very thing is referenced with this shot choice. DeMarco is ahead in the game and he has a decision to make, either shoot the 2 ball or 7 ball. If he was behind in the game shooting the 2 ball would be an easier decision for him to make. Example: If DeMarco was ahead 3 to 0 the 7 ball would clearly be the correct shot, because of the difference the penalty would be if either shot was missed. If DeMarco was trailing 3 to 0 the 2 ball would be clearly the right shot to shoot. Risk against reward.;)

The reason this decision is such an interesting one is because of the score at only a 2 to 1 lead for DeMarco and the skill level of the players. Does DeMarco want to shoot a shot that he can win or lose with leading 2 to 1? That should depend on the make percentage of the shot for the shooter. Don't forget to factor in the 7 ball option as a plus for DeMarco. Shooting the 7 ball with a higher make percentage will increase his lead to 3 to 1 at least 65% of the time with the opportunity to continue from there.:D So now you can see that shooting the 2 ball is not as cut and dry as some members make it out to believe it is.:sorry Understanding this I would venture to say that DeMarco should only shoot the 2 ball if he was at least a slight favorite or higher to make it. Now whenever opportuities like this one present themselves, we sometimes get blinded with the potential of the shot, and not with the value of the options.:eek:

Dr. Bill
 
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lll

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Sorry Larry, but you cannot put a make percentage on making the 2 ball that would apply to everybody. Depending on the players skills and ability will determine the make percentage. You must figure out what your make percentage is, and make your decision based off of that. I would say that leading 2 to 1 in the ball count playing a player that played equal to you, (above average player) you would have to be at least even money 50% 50% to shoot it.

Shot choice decisions vary, depending on the skill of the players, and the score of the game. If you're behind and the reward for shooting a shot is a great one, you can afford to take a chance and shoot a lower percentage shot. But if you were leading in the game and the same shot came up, it may not be the right thing to do. This very thing is referenced with this shot choice. DeMarco is ahead in the game and he has a decision to make, either shoot the 2 ball or 7 ball. If he was behind in the game shooting the 2 ball would be an easier decision for him to make. Example: If DeMarco was ahead 3 to 0 the 7 ball would clearly be the correct shot, because of the difference the penalty would be if either shot was missed. If DeMarco was trailing 3 to 0 the 2 ball would be clearly the right shot to shoot. Risk against reward.
The reason this decision is such an interesting one is because of the score at only a 2 to 1 lead for DeMarco and the skill level of the players. Does DeMarco want to shoot a shot that he can win or lose with leading 2 to 1? That should depend on the make percentage of the shot for the shooter. Don't forget to factor in the 7 ball option as a plus for DeMarco. Shooting the 7 ball with a higher make percentage will increase his lead to 3 to 1 at least 65% of the time with the opportunity to continue from there.:D So now you can see that shooting the 2 ball is not as cut and dry as some members make it out to believe it is.:sorry Understanding this I would venture to say that DeMarco should only shoot the 2 ball if he was at least a slight favorite or higher to make it. Now whenever opportuities like this one present themselves, we sometimes get blinded with the potential of the shot, and not with the value of the options.:eek:

Dr. Bill
Dr. Bill
i'm beginning to understand about playing the score in banks is similar to 1p
as far as when to be aggressive if you are way behind
and when to be grinding when you are leading
and i understand the way the score is now its in the grey zone
(i hope all my assumptions are correct. if not i still got alot to learn ..which i do anyway:eek:)
but i see this bank for THEM
being at the hardest a 4??? and honestly i think its easier than that
(ive studied freddies books:))
thats why i ask the question
HOW HARD IS THIS BANK FOR THE LEVEL OF PLAYERS PLAYING??
if i think im going to make this bank alot more than miss it
and i have a good chance to run out if i do ie the 8 and 7 next
WHY NOT SHOOT IT???


its like in one pocket
the guy has a ball in his hole but you have a shot the score is 3-2 either way
if your confident you can make the shot and run some balls dont you shoot it and take out or make his ball later??

just askin for my edification
 

Cowboy Dennis

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DeMarco decided to shoot the 2 ball cross-side. The lines do not accurately depict the shot (no curves with Greenshot) but you get the idea, the cueball slid a little to his right before drawing to the siderail. He made the 7 & the 8 next to win the match.

Larry, any bankpool player worth his salt would shoot this shot everytime in this situation. It's the nuts. You get to stroke it firmly and shoot it at the full open mouth of the side pocket and you'll have a shot at the 7 or 8 when you make it. What more could a man want?

LD's Shot 2.jpg
 

fred bentivegna

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Whut I say!?

Whut I say!?

DeMarco decided to shoot the 2 ball cross-side. The lines do not accurately depict the shot (no curves with Greenshot) but you get the idea, the cueball slid a little to his right before drawing to the siderail. He made the 7 & the 8 next to win the match.

Larry, any bankpool player worth his salt would shoot this shot everytime in this situation. It's the nuts. You get to stroke it firmly and shoot it at the full open mouth of the side pocket and you'll have a shot at the 7 or 8 when you make it. What more could a man want?

View attachment 5573
Originally Posted by fred bentivegna
If DeMarco didnt shoot the 2, you could knock me over with DuckBrains YK breath. Angle on the two is laying to draw the cBall back to the rail and out between the 7 and the 8, and probably go out from there.


There were actually people that argued against this? Jeez.

Beard
 

wincardona

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Originally Posted by fred bentivegna
If DeMarco didnt shoot the 2, you could knock me over with DuckBrains YK breath. Angle on the two is laying to draw the cBall back to the rail and out between the 7 and the 8, and probably go out from there.


There were actually people that argued against this? Jeez.

Beard
If you're referring to me you're mistaken. I didn't advocate either shot, but what I did do is offer my opinion on when the right and wrong time is to shoot the 2 ball.:frus DeMarco thought he was going to make the bank on the 2 ball that's the reason he shot it. But there are players that wouldn't of been as confident as DeMarco in this situation, and I shared my thoughts on when to, and when to not shoot the 2 ball, to possibly help the people that were puzzled. Of course that couldn't of been you .:D My thoughts were directed to whom ever was interested in my opinion on when it's advisable and inadvisable to shoot the 2 ball.:)

I'm here to help people that want to learn to play better pool I happen to be a very methodical player, who understands percentages, especially my percentages to succeed with a shot, or a game. I also feel that I communicate my thoughts quite well, to the people that like my way of thinking. Playing either one pocket or bank pool you apply the same type of strategy, in terms of selecting the correct shot for the situation. Of course this is based on ones ability in understanding the percentages of both your opponent and your self. IN my opinion I don't take a back seat to any one when it comes to making decisions at the table. I may not play as well as many, but I have as much knowledge as most. I have been doing commentary for over 30 years, and have had the opportunity to sit next to the games greatest players and talk about pool. Everything didn't go over my head.

So if you were inferring to me when you said that "There were actually people that argued against this? Jeez." You would be better served if you started to read what I say, and not what I didn't. You never know, you may do like I did for 30 years...Pick up some useful information.:p

By the way, just because DeMarco shot the 2 ball bank and made it, the only person he proved shot the right shot was himself.

;)
Dr. Bill
 
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lll

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HOW HARD IS THIS BANK FOR THE LEVEL OF PLAYERS PLAYING??
if i think im going to make this bank alot more than miss it
and i have a good chance to run out if i do ie the 8 and 7 next
WHY NOT SHOOT IT???


its like in one pocket
the guy has a ball in his hole but you have a shot the score is 3-2 either way
if your confident you can make the shot and run some balls dont you shoot it and take out or make his ball later??

just askin for my edification
DeMarco decided to shoot the 2 ball cross-side. The lines do not accurately depict the shot (no curves with Greenshot) but you get the idea, the cueball slid a little to his right before drawing to the siderail. He made the 7 & the 8 next to win the match.

Larry, any bankpool player worth his salt would shoot this shot everytime in this situation. It's the nuts. You get to stroke it firmly and shoot it at the full open mouth of the side pocket and you'll have a shot at the 7 or 8 when you make it. What more could a man want?

View attachment 5573
dennis
what do you think??,,,,
half a cookie???.....
 

fred bentivegna

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Wut I sed...

Wut I sed...

If you're referring to me you're mistaken. I didn't advocate either shot, but what I did do is offer my opinion on when the right and wrong time is to shoot the 2 ball. DeMarco thought he was going to make the bank on the 2 ball that's the reason he shot it. But there are players that wouldn't of been as confident as DeMarco in this situation, and I shared my thoughts on when to, and when to not shoot the 2 ball, to possibly help the people that were puzzled. ]Of course that couldn't of been you . My thoughts were directed to whom ever was interested in my opinion on when it's advisable and inadvisable to shoot the 2 ball.:)

I'm here to help people that want to learn to play better pool I happen to be a very methodical player, who understands percentages, especially my percentages to succeed with a shot, or a game. I also feel that I communicate my thoughts quite well, to the people that like my way of thinking. Playing either one pocket or bank pool you apply the same type of strategy, in terms of selecting the correct shot for the situation. Of course this is based on ones ability in understanding the percentages of both your opponent and your self. IN my opinion I don't take a back seat to any one when it comes to making decisions at the table. Lets go back to where you were calling me Master Beard :lolI may not play as well as many, but I have as much knowledge as most. I have been doing commentary for over 30 years, and have had the opportunity to sit next to the games greatest players and talk about pool. Everything didn't go over my head.

So if you were inferring to me when you said that "There were actually people that argued against this? Jeez." You would be better served if you started to read what I say, and not what I didn't. You never know, you may do like I did for 30 years...Pick up some useful information.:p

By the way, just because DeMarco shot the 2 ball bank and made it, the only person he proved shot the right shot was himself.

Dr. Bill
....Wuz dat he wood draw da 2 ball back betweene da 7 'n 8 ball. Witch he did.

He did ditnt he?

Beard
 
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