Learning “Cheap” from the Hacker and People of His Speed

kollegedave

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121
I was paying some attention to the “Hacker challenges Lou” thread. In that thread, the Hacker mentions at least once, but I think more than once, that he will not let people learn from him “cheap”. Fair enough. I suspect many of Hacker’s lessons were expensive, so he thinks other should experience the same torture. I understand.

My question is this: What is cheap?

Suppose I am moderately skilled amateur (I am…very moderately skilled) and I approach a road player or pro player (The Hacker, Dr. Bill, Ike Runnels, whoever) and I want to match up, so I can learn against a player of a much higher skill level, and I want to match up a game where I can stay in it. That is to say, I am not suggesting that I simply donate to this player—I want some competition, so I am going to need a significant spot.

What is the minimum bet for this situation?

What is the minim bet if I agree to play even?

Recently, I feel like my game has picked up from regularly sparring with a player that is close to an open player. Of course, I get a big spot, but if I wanted to approach others with something like this, I am not sure how much I have to bet. Advice?

kollegedave
 

keoneyo

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Mar 31, 2014
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I was paying some attention to the “Hacker challenges Lou” thread. In that thread, the Hacker mentions at least once, but I think more than once, that he will not let people learn from him “cheap”. Fair enough. I suspect many of Hacker’s lessons were expensive, so he thinks other should experience the same torture. I understand.

My question is this: What is cheap?

Suppose I am moderately skilled amateur (I am…very moderately skilled) and I approach a road player or pro player (The Hacker, Dr. Bill, Ike Runnels, whoever) and I want to match up, so I can learn against a player of a much higher skill level, and I want to match up a game where I can stay in it. That is to say, I am not suggesting that I simply donate to this player—I want some competition, so I am going to need a significant spot.

What is the minimum bet for this situation?

What is the minim bet if I agree to play even?

Recently, I feel like my game has picked up from regularly sparring with a player that is close to an open player. Of course, I get a big spot, but if I wanted to approach others with something like this, I am not sure how much I have to bet. Advice?

kollegedave
If youre going to play cheap then you cant imo ask for a spot. You play even. I play One Pocket Rich even race to 3 for $50 and the time. He can give me 10/6. Its like a lesson for me. And its like a favor to me for all the times he has beaten me. If you don't know Rich he beats Dennis Orcollo. gets a ball from Frost and Efren.
I know Efren used to play guys even for a $100 a set. There was a bunch of guys willing to play him just for the experience. Its a great opportunity to learn from a master.
 

straightback

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I agree - you're either donating and learning for cheap or you're getting a spot and playing for higher stakes. Can't get both a meaningful spot and low stakes from a better player - there is no in incentive for them to play.
 
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androd

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Get as much weight as you can can, play as cheap as they'll play.
 

onepockethacker

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I was paying some attention to the “Hacker challenges Lou” thread. In that thread, the Hacker mentions at least once, but I think more than once, that he will not let people learn from him “cheap”. Fair enough. I suspect many of Hacker’s lessons were expensive, so he thinks other should experience the same torture. I understand.

My question is this: What is cheap?

Suppose I am moderately skilled amateur (I am…very moderately skilled) and I approach a road player or pro player (The Hacker, Dr. Bill, Ike Runnels, whoever) and I want to match up, so I can learn against a player of a much higher skill level, and I want to match up a game where I can stay in it. That is to say, I am not suggesting that I simply donate to this player—I want some competition, so I am going to need a significant spot.

What is the minimum bet for this situation?

What is the minim bet if I agree to play even?

Recently, I feel like my game has picked up from regularly sparring with a player that is close to an open player. Of course, I get a big spot, but if I wanted to approach others with something like this, I am not sure how much I have to bet. Advice?

kollegedave
Hi, how are you doing? What I actually said was Im not going to let someone learn from me cheap AND give them the nuts... In other words Im not going to pay them to teach them:sorry I don't mind playing cheap and making a fair game but where I live in south fl. is the biggest joke I have seen and I have been to ALOT of places.. When I was getting better if you would have asked "good" players for a couple of balls to learn for $ 25 a game they would tell you to fuuck off..
I offer guys here(where I live) 10 to 6 for $ 10 or 20 a game( guys that play like alot of the guys on this site) so they can learn, I get to hit some balls that mean something because I can't practice for more than 5 minutes without getting bored and hopefully I make a few dollars.. What do they say? give me 12 to 4 and the breaks.. one guy wants 18 to 5 and he bets $ 100 minimum a game and he plays WAY better than Dippy Dave.. its a joke.. another guy an even game between us is 11 to 7.. He said he would play for $ 200 a game if I give him 10 to 6.. I said fine I will take a shot.. We were supposed to play the next day.. next day comes and he says " I need 10 to 6 and the breaks"... That is why I don't bother going to the pool hall anymore.. for what?
Now that Im done venting.. where do you live? My advice is either take a lesson or play $ 10 a game even..

have a nice day:)
 

Tom Wirth

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Hi, how are you doing? What I actually said was Im not going to let someone learn from me cheap AND give them the nuts... In other words Im not going to pay them to teach them:sorry I don't mind playing cheap and making a fair game but where I live in south fl. is the biggest joke I have seen and I have been to ALOT of places.. When I was getting better if you would have asked "good" players for a couple of balls to learn for $ 25 a game they would tell you to fuuck off..
I offer guys here(where I live) 10 to 6 for $ 10 or 20 a game( guys that play like alot of the guys on this site) so they can learn, I get to hit some balls that mean something because I can't practice for more than 5 minutes without getting bored and hopefully I make a few dollars.. What do they say? give me 12 to 4 and the breaks.. one guy wants 18 to 5 and he bets $ 100 minimum a game and he plays WAY better than Dippy Dave.. its a joke.. another guy an even game between us is 11 to 7.. He said he would play for $ 200 a game if I give him 10 to 6.. I said fine I will take a shot.. We were supposed to play the next day.. next day comes and he says " I need 10 to 6 and the breaks"... That is why I don't bother going to the pool hall anymore.. for what?
Now that Im done venting.. where do you live? My advice is either take a lesson or play $ 10 a game even..

have a nice day:)
Agreed! 100%

Then when I do go to the pool room, and the only decent one is about 40 miles away, I'm dead out of stroke because I never hit any balls and got no feel for the tables. It's never been any good trying to explain that to anybody because no one believes it. I can't blame them for that, but it doesn't change the facts. My shooting game has got to be at least 20% off.

OK, I'm done with my boo hooing. DCC, where are you? Christmas comes faster.

Tom
 
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Cory in dc

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Nov 21, 2012
Messages
1,474
I was paying some attention to the “Hacker challenges Lou” thread. In that thread, the Hacker mentions at least once, but I think more than once, that he will not let people learn from him “cheap”. Fair enough. I suspect many of Hacker’s lessons were expensive, so he thinks other should experience the same torture. I understand.

My question is this: What is cheap?

Suppose I am moderately skilled amateur (I am…very moderately skilled) and I approach a road player or pro player (The Hacker, Dr. Bill, Ike Runnels, whoever) and I want to match up, so I can learn against a player of a much higher skill level, and I want to match up a game where I can stay in it. That is to say, I am not suggesting that I simply donate to this player—I want some competition, so I am going to need a significant spot.

What is the minimum bet for this situation?

What is the minim bet if I agree to play even?

Recently, I feel like my game has picked up from regularly sparring with a player that is close to an open player. Of course, I get a big spot, but if I wanted to approach others with something like this, I am not sure how much I have to bet. Advice?

kollegedave
I try to set it so the expected yield for the better player is a fair rate for sharing their knowledge and expertise (~$50/hour), but also such that if I play well or they're lazy, then they can lose.

Against the local shortstops and up, that usually reduces to a debate over $30, $40, or $50 per rack and 9-6 or 10-6. I'd play Rob 10-6 for $40 a rack all day, but I'd try to get him to do it for $20 (so don't tell him about the $40).
 

onepockethacker

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Jan 31, 2012
Messages
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I try to set it so the expected yield for the better player is a fair rate for sharing their knowledge and expertise (~$50/hour), but also such that if I play well or they're lazy, then they can lose.

Against the local shortstops and up, that usually reduces to a debate over $30, $40, or $50 per rack and 9-6 or 10-6. I'd play Rob 10-6 for $40 a rack all day, but I'd try to get him to do it for $20 (so don't tell him about the $40).
LOL ... judging by your shot selections you play good

P.S. By the way.... " you had me at hello":D

have a nice day:)
 

phil dade

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Aug 18, 2012
Messages
515
Hi, how are you doing? What I actually said was Im not going to let someone learn from me cheap AND give them the nuts... In other words Im not going to pay them to teach them:sorry I don't mind playing cheap and making a fair game but where I live in south fl. is the biggest joke I have seen and I have been to ALOT of places.. When I was getting better if you would have asked "good" players for a couple of balls to learn for $ 25 a game they would tell you to fuuck off..
I offer guys here(where I live) 10 to 6 for $ 10 or 20 a game( guys that play like alot of the guys on this site) so they can learn, I get to hit some balls that mean something because I can't practice for more than 5 minutes without getting bored and hopefully I make a few dollars.. What do they say? give me 12 to 4 and the breaks.. one guy wants 18 to 5 and he bets $ 100 minimum a game and he plays WAY better than Dippy Dave.. its a joke.. another guy an even game between us is 11 to 7.. He said he would play for $ 200 a game if I give him 10 to 6.. I said fine I will take a shot.. We were supposed to play the next day.. next day comes and he says " I need 10 to 6 and the breaks"... That is why I don't bother going to the pool hall anymore.. for what?
Now that Im done venting.. where do you live? My advice is either take a lesson or play $ 10 a game even..

have a nice day:)
:) This would be a very worthwhile learning experience and a great investment in improving my game for sure. I have been in and out of pool since a young teenager. I played my best 1996-2006 because I really played often and studied the tapes. Then I was out for business and health reasons. I am in the process of getting back, remembering things I forgot that I forgot. Yesterday, I spent $500 on a long lesson with video because my stroke was not what it was. Now I know why and need to practice adjusting.

I have to say 10-6 for $10-$20 locally sounds better than $10 even...of course I may have to move a few hundred miles south :D, but I do have a daughter in Miami.

my best,
Phil
 
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Mkbtank

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Apr 22, 2013
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Learning “Cheap” from the Hacker and People of His Speed

Hi, how are you doing? What I actually said was Im not going to let someone learn from me cheap AND give them the nuts... In other words Im not going to pay them to teach them:sorry I don't mind playing cheap and making a fair game but where I live in south fl. is the biggest joke I have seen and I have been to ALOT of places.. When I was getting better if you would have asked "good" players for a couple of balls to learn for $ 25 a game they would tell you to fuuck off..
I offer guys here(where I live) 10 to 6 for $ 10 or 20 a game( guys that play like alot of the guys on this site) so they can learn, I get to hit some balls that mean something because I can't practice for more than 5 minutes without getting bored and hopefully I make a few dollars.. What do they say? give me 12 to 4 and the breaks.. one guy wants 18 to 5 and he bets $ 100 minimum a game and he plays WAY better than Dippy Dave.. its a joke.. another guy an even game between us is 11 to 7.. He said he would play for $ 200 a game if I give him 10 to 6.. I said fine I will take a shot.. We were supposed to play the next day.. next day comes and he says " I need 10 to 6 and the breaks"... That is why I don't bother going to the pool hall anymore.. for what?
Now that Im done venting.. where do you live? My advice is either take a lesson or play $ 10 a game even..

have a nice day:)

Heh. There's a couple guys in my room who were so good they could never get a game. I walk in and get a game in seconds. Then when they grumble I look at them and say "man I hope I never get as good as you lol". True story.
 

Cory in dc

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LOL ... judging by your shot selections you play good

P.S. By the way.... " you had me at hello":D

have a nice day:)
Hey, check out my new signature!

I play ok, but my shot-making (most days) is not where it needs to be to keep up with my thinking. Even though I don't like 9-ball, I'm trying to play it more often to help with that. Also, creative thinking can and does backfire on me with some regularity.
 
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kollegedave

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Messages
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I would like to thank everyone for their responses. I guess I have it pretty good with an established cheap game with a very good player. Like one of the posters said; I am taking slightly the worst of it, but if he plays bad and I play good, he can lose.

Some people have discouraged me from playing this game. They have said I need more weight or that I am not getting the "good player's" best game. For big stakes, I do need more weight, but I like trying force my play to higher level.

Frankly, at a certain skill level of play (I am not totally sure where this is), I don't know how people improve UNLESS they are under the gun of a better player.

Anyway, thank you. I was hoping to hear Dr. Bill's opinion on this.

kollegedave
 

onepockethacker

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I would like to thank everyone for their responses. I guess I have it pretty good with an established cheap game with a very good player. Like one of the posters said; I am taking slightly the worst of it, but if he plays bad and I play good, he can lose.

Some people have discouraged me from playing this game. They have said I need more weight or that I am not getting the "good player's" best game. For big stakes, I do need more weight, but I like trying force my play to higher level.

Frankly, at a certain skill level of play (I am not totally sure where this is), I don't know how people improve UNLESS they are under the gun of a better player.

Anyway, thank you. I was hoping to hear Dr. Bill's opinion on this.

kollegedave
Let me guess the guys that discourage you to play him are the same shit birds who sit around and play nobody right? The ones that want to say this guy dogged it or that guy dogged it but play NOBODY ever themselves right. Thats how it is down here.. You have never seen so many guys so scared to play a game they might lose at.. They make fun and discourage anyone from trying to pay their dues and get better.. The guys down here all think they are pool geniuses meanwhile if you collected their pool I.Q.'s and converted it to money you couldn't buy a news paper with it..

Have a nice day:)
 

androd

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Let me guess the guys that discourage you to play him are the same shit birds who sit around and play nobody right? The ones that want to say this guy dogged it or that guy dogged it but play NOBODY ever themselves right. Thats how it is down here.. You have never seen so many guys so scared to play a game they might lose at.. They make fun and discourage anyone from trying to pay their dues and get better.. The guys down here all think they are pool geniuses meanwhile if you collected their pool I.Q.'s and converted it to money you couldn't buy a news paper with it..

Have a nice day:)
Those guys have been in every pool room I've ever been.

You forgot to mention that they're also results players, if one good player gives another the 8ball safe, the next day they say I knew he had no chance to win like that. :D:p

P.S. I play a young 9baller one pocket $5 a game, 11/7 and if he scratches on the break he gets to break again.
Although I'm not a good player he can learn a few things, so if I don't have a game, we play.
New players play slow, so it's good practice for me not to get frustrated. I also make suggestions about what he shot,
after the shot is over.
 
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#Cruncher

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onepockethacker,

If I'm ever visiting Miami area, I'll play you some 20 a game one pocket for the experience.
 

onepockethacker

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Those guys have been in every pool room I've ever been.

You forgot to mention that they're also results players, if one good player gives another the 8ball safe, the next day they say I knew he had no chance to win like that. :D:p

P.S. I play a young 9baller one pocket $5 a game, 11/7 and if he scratches on the break he gets to break again.
Although I'm not a good player he can learn a few things, so if I don't have a game, we play.
New players play slow, so it's good practice for me not to get frustrated. I also make suggestions about what he shot,
after the shot is over.
LOL You are so right about the results guys.. Alot of times I will tell them so and so beat so and so just to hear them say I knew he was stealing.. then I will tell them the truth that the guy actually lost.. then I get to enjoy the back pedaling and fumbling LMFAO
 

vapros

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Hacker, you're a devious conniver. Did you ever really play any one-pocket? :heh:D:lol
 

beatle

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most of the A+ players can easily give out 10 to 4 and such. but they dont as its a tougher game and they dont really know what they can and cannot spot a weaker player. thats why they dont get action.

the weaker players that want way too much are still usually going to lose with what they ask for but are not worth playing anyway.

if you always play your true speed soon everyone gets a good idea of what they need to win against you. that is fine if you like to play cheap or for fun. if you want to play for decent money you have to have deceived your players enough so they think they have a good game when they dont. you cant blame weak players for not giving action when all they see in their mind is you running out.

learn to stall and keep every game close even if it means you lose it. they will lose more money to you, and others will play you as they compare that game to the one they are going to make or you offer.
 

jtompilot

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I just played some guy in Huntsville that said he loved 1P but would only play 10 a game. He lost two games and quit.

Miller played me all day for 5 per. If you want to learn something I've played plenty of guys cheap. I love 1P and I have a job so I like to enjoy the game
 
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