Cecil Tugwell v. Mark Tadd 1993 LA Open 1-pocket Match

12squared

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Cecil Tugwell v. Mark Tadd 1993 LA Open 1-pocket Match had a rules controversy around the 45 min mark. This was just posted on AZB Forum and thought some would be interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1f2h02f7rg&t=3098s (sorry, the URL starts after the controversy)

This was posted by "Onepocket73" on AZB, does anyone know him?

Dave
 

beatle

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best rule to play is the opponent decides if it stays where it stopped or gets replaced to original position.

otherwise like here, he get the advantage of putting it back and having to hit a shot he might not otherwise have been able to make.

but tugwell used to fight and argue over everything when he played. got his hand broke for it and had to learn to play opposite handed.
 

12squared

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best rule to play is the opponent decides if it stays where it stopped or gets replaced to original position.

otherwise like here, he get the advantage of putting it back and having to hit a shot he might not otherwise have been able to make.

but tugwell used to fight and argue over everything when he played. got his hand broke for it and had to learn to play opposite handed.
Agreed, but was that rule in affect in 1993 as it is now? And then there's the issue of Cecil simply picking up the ball and replacing it without asking anyone...would that be considered a foul? (personally I do not think so since no other balls were touched, but it's something to think about).

Thanks for your input.

Dave
 

Frank Almanza

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best rule to play is the opponent decides if it stays where it stopped or gets replaced to original position.

otherwise like here, he get the advantage of putting it back and having to hit a shot he might not otherwise have been able to make.

but tugwell used to fight and argue over everything when he played. got his hand broke for it and had to learn to play opposite handed.
I played Cecil a good number of times and don't recall one time that we didn't have an argument about something. I quit gambling with him for that reason. Couldn't avoid him in tournament play though.
I believe his hand was broken for another reason.
 

gulfportdoc

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Yeah, Cecil got away with one. It was Tadd's choice, and he probably would have let the ball lay in its new position. Perhaps the rule wasn't in use then.

It was nice to see the guys neatly dressed. Today in most tournaments the guys look like bums.:rolleyes:

~Doc
 

Frank Almanza

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Yeah, Cecil got away with one. It was Tadd's choice, and he probably would have let the ball lay in its new position. Perhaps the rule wasn't in use then.

It was nice to see the guys neatly dressed. Today in most tournaments the guys look like bums.:rolleyes:

~Doc
Yes he certainly got away with one there. He didn't waste any time in picketing it up to put back. He was thinking fast too. Wanted to put it back where Mark could not carom it in while setting up a dead combo. I'll give it to Cecil he was always thinking.
 

beatle

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he picked the wrong people in detroit to not be on the good side of.
 

LSJohn

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I played Cecil a good number of times and don't recall one time that we didn't have an argument about something. I quit gambling with him for that reason. Couldn't avoid him in tournament play though.
I believe his hand was broken for another reason.
I was never around him, but from this video + some stories, I get the impression that his gamesmanship drifted way over the line into prickery.
 

beatle

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it is proper to admire a person for his character. not for his ability at something.

of course success makes it easier to be a better person.
 

Wayne

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Yeah, Cecil got away with one. It was Tadd's choice, and he probably would have let the ball lay in its new position. Perhaps the rule wasn't in use then.

It was nice to see the guys neatly dressed. Today in most tournaments the guys look like bums.:rolleyes:

~Doc
It seems they consulted with JJ who was filming and the ball got put back in the proper place. Cecil didn't make the call, so the only thing he probably did wrong was moving the ball before the determination was made.

Note: If you go to 114:30 you will see a great one pocket shot that most players would never even consider.
 
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Grayback1973

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It seems they consulted with JJ who was filming and the ball got put back in the proper place. Cecil didn't make the call, so the only thing he probably did wrong was moving the ball before the determination was made.
Hi Wayne,I am the one that posted this video on Youtube.I purchased many of JJ's videos before he passed away and I made sure that I didn't put anything on my channel while he was still selling these.Now that he is gone,I would assume that he wouldn't mind.However,if one of his family members is going to continue his video business and would not want me posting,then I will gladly remove anything that has JJ's copyright on it and not post anymore in the future.I say this to you because I know you and JJ were good friends and it was you that lead me to him in the first place.
 

Wayne

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Hi Wayne,I am the one that posted this video on Youtube.I purchased many of JJ's videos before he passed away and I made sure that I didn't put anything on my channel while he was still selling these.Now that he is gone,I would assume that he wouldn't mind.However,if one of his family members is going to continue his video business and would not want me posting,then I will gladly remove anything that has JJ's copyright on it and not post anymore in the future.I say this to you because I know you and JJ were good friends and it was you that lead me to him in the first place.
I think it is cool to post, it seems whoever got his collection has done nothing with it.

JJ had some of the greatest 1 pocket footage and he was putting together some of the greatest shots but I don't think he ever completed this project.
 

Mkbtank

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Cecil Tugwell v. Mark Tadd 1993 LA Open 1-pocket Match

Grayback- Thank you!! If it's cool (which it seems to be) then any matches are most appreciated!!!
 

Grayback1973

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Grayback- Thank you!! If it's cool (which it seems to be) then any matches are most appreciated!!!
MK,you're very welcome.I'm glad you enjoyed it.It would just be such a waste to not share what I have with others who were around in that era.The younger generation who didn't know these guys and how strong they played will probably not appreciate it as much.
 

Mkbtank

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Cecil Tugwell v. Mark Tadd 1993 LA Open 1-pocket Match

MK,you're very welcome.I'm glad you enjoyed it.It would just be such a waste to not share what I have with others who were around in that era.The younger generation who didn't know these guys and how strong they played will probably not appreciate it as much.

Heh. I must confess to be somewhat younger (44) although I am a huge fan in general of those who came before me. I am a 1p addict and want to learn from everyone that I can. Plus I read a lot and know many of them by reputation, but have never gotten to see them play! There is a guy in my pool room who says he was a teacher and traveling companion of Tadd, and I have heard stories of how good he was from him, so nice to see him play before he took his hiatus.
 

12squared

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Hi Wayne,I am the one that posted this video on Youtube.I purchased many of JJ's videos before he passed away and I made sure that I didn't put anything on my channel while he was still selling these.Now that he is gone,I would assume that he wouldn't mind.However,if one of his family members is going to continue his video business and would not want me posting,then I will gladly remove anything that has JJ's copyright on it and not post anymore in the future.I say this to you because I know you and JJ were good friends and it was you that lead me to him in the first place.
Hi Grayback1973, welcome! Glad you got in and are now able to post.

Dave
 

unoperro

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It seems they consulted with JJ who was filming and the ball got put back in the proper place. Cecil didn't make the call, so the only thing he probably did wrong was moving the ball before the determination was made.

Note: If you go to 114:30 you will see a great one pocket shot that most players would never even consider.
I went to video and checked out that shot. I wondered if he was going to shoot the 8 3 rails and billiard the stripe in. Did see the shot before he made it. He proved he was human with the next shot.;)
 

gulfportdoc

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... Note: If you go to 114:30 you will see a great one pocket shot that most players would never even consider.
That was a helluva shot. The 3-railer went in like it had eyes. I'll have to be on the lookout for when that shot comes up.

I think he was so pleased with making that nice 3-railer that he forgot to protect against the scratch on his next cut shot....

~Doc
 

unoperro

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That was a helluva shot. The 3-railer went in like it had eyes. I'll have to be on the lookout for when that shot comes up.

I think he was so pleased with making that nice 3-railer that he forgot to protect against the scratch on his next cut shot....

~Doc
He hit the shot so bad that he scratched. Just poor execution.
 
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