another scott efren re run

cincy_kid

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Thanks for the explanation Larry!

I also like that shot (the one Tom described and the one Scott eventually shot). In fact I find myself doing that type of shot more often than the 3 rail kick I had replied with but figured it looked natural enough.

I also agree with John that the other sot some folks liked (going off the strip then the solid and eventually behind the 2 balls his pocket looks a little off to me. I feel like the CB will go too high and run into the solid by his pocket and possibly sell out.

Good WWYD!
 

Tom Wirth

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Look how close the cue ball was to the cushion when Scott shot his last shot with two fouls. Now look where the cue ball was off Efren's break. The difference is in how hard Scott can now hit his shot and still control the cue ball. As I said earlier. This shot must be hit hard if he wishes to move balls away from Efren's pocket. With the cue ball so close to the side rail he can't do that and be comfortable controlling the cue ball onto the two.

He could have whacked that shot with the position he had from the break. IMO, another lost opportunity. I don't know what might have happened had he fired that shot the first time but he obviously was able to stick the cue ball on the two and play safe. Trouble is, he didn't help his cause an iota because he had to hit the shot softly. He has the skills to drive that shot hard and do the same thing if the cue ball is off the side rail. So, why didn't he when he had the chance? Who the hell knows?

Tom
 

1pwannabe

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The reasoning behind taking the fouls, and forcing your opponent to as well, isn't just that it makes it harder for them to get out if you sell out...it's because when you do shoot, they MUST shoot as well. So in this case Scott moved the balls around to have some threats and now he forces Efren to risk a shot as well. This is critical to 1P in dire situations like Scott is in. It gives you some odds to still win the game in case they sell out when forced to shoot.
 

lll

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The reasoning behind taking the fouls, and forcing your opponent to as well, isn't just that it makes it harder for them to get out if you sell out...it's because when you do shoot, they MUST shoot as well. So in this case Scott moved the balls around to have some threats and now he forces Efren to risk a shot as well. This is critical to 1P in dire situations like Scott is in. It gives you some odds to still win the game in case they sell out when forced to shoot.
analysis noted and remembered
great insight
 
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lll

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fwiw
going along with now your opponent has to shoot
here is where scott left efren
its efrens shot
se48.jpg
 

gulfportdoc

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It looks as though Efren is the favorite to win from here, but you say that he didn't. Did he try something tricky, but instead sold out?

I'd have few other choices here but to bank the stripe over to my side and float the CB up towards the head corner pocket on Scott's side.

~Doc
 

cincy_kid

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It looks as though Efren is the favorite to win from here, but you say that he didn't. Did he try something tricky, but instead sold out?

I'd have few other choices here but to bank the stripe over to my side and float the CB up towards the head corner pocket on Scott's side.

~Doc
That is strange tat efren loses from his advantage he has at the table right now, I am curious to know what happened.

If I am shooting now and I am efren I also go off the stripe (10?) but i keep the CB around that area, maybe even a little lower by 2nd diamond if I can get it there easily enough. That way it keeps Scott from shooting at the 14, taking it away from my pocket and getting out of the trap.

EDIT: on further analysis...if you leave him where I said, he would have the red striped ball cross corner and can float ball up to efrens corner pocket and double him up for a combo which may be ok. Also, I dont think he would see enough of the 14 to take it out so easily as I thought, so your shot may be the one I go with too doc...
 

LSJohn

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That is strange tat efren loses from his advantage he has at the table right now, I am curious to know what happened.

If I am shooting now and I am efren I also go off the stripe (10?) but i keep the CB around that area, maybe even a little lower by 2nd diamond if I can get it there easily enough. That way it keeps Scott from shooting at the 14, taking it away from my pocket and getting out of the trap.

EDIT: on further analysis...if you leave him where I said, he would have the red striped ball cross corner and can float ball up to efrens corner pocket and double him up for a combo which may be ok. Also, I dont think he would see enough of the 14 to take it out so easily as I thought, so your shot may be the one I go with too doc...
Your edit is what I was thinking.
 

lll

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i will put this to rest soon
efren just bumped the stripe
leaving scott here
se45.jpg
 

lll

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scott went thru the 3? ball to put the cue ball below the balls by efrens pocket
essentially at this point he is out of the break
so by taking a foul on the wrong side of the stack
he bought some time and found a better position to get out of the break
se42.jpg
 

lll

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i will show what happened later to lead to scotts win when i get to the office
 

Tom Wirth

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Letting Scott see the three ball was a terrible mistake. At this point, this ball, and the three loose balls by Efren's pocket are keys to trapping Scott. I think I'm right in understanding that Efren is on two fouls here but this shot by ER is as weak as I can recall. He must get off two fouls but he must maintain his positional advantage while doing it.

Efren obviously could not shoot the combo bank on what appears to be the four so here is what I see would have been a better shot for Efren.
 

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cincy_kid

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Letting Scott see the three ball was a terrible mistake. At this point, this ball, and the three loose balls by Efren's pocket are keys to trapping Scott. I think I'm right in understanding that Efren is on two fouls here but this shot by ER is as weak as I can recall. He must get off two fouls but he must maintain his positional advantage while doing it.

Efren obviously could not shoot the combo bank on what appears to be the four so here is what I see would have been a better shot for Efren.
Yea I saw that shot too Tom, good choice there....(was a little worried about the stripe one rail long but heck, let him shoot it if he misses he may be in some serious trouble)
 

lll

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efren and scott sparred for a few innings until efren left scott here
se60.jpg
 

lll

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scott after deliberating what to do shot the combo on the 8
made it with a great leave ( he can see the2 )and ran 5 or 6
and shortly thereafter won the match
se61.jpg

se64.jpg
 

lll

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It looks as though Efren is the favorite to win from here, but you say that he didn't. Did he try something tricky, but instead sold out?

I'd have few other choices here but to bank the stripe over to my side and float the CB up towards the head corner pocket on Scott's side.

~Doc
doc you can see how he won
he lives and dies by the sword
:D
 

gulfportdoc

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doc you can see how he won
he lives and dies by the sword:D
Larry, that was a very nice series of layouts! And you also made your point about how once in awhile it's advantageous to leave the CB frozen on the wrong side of the stack.;)

Reyes seemed to have had a little brain fog during --at least-- the last game. I would have fallen off my chair had I been watching live, where he just bumped the CB over off the stripe near the side rail, a few shots back. He was finished then.

Still he later had Scott in a tough position up by the head corner pocket. Scott felt it necessary to go for the gold with the combo. But look what he left if he missed!:eek: Great shot, and win for Frost.

~Doc
 
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