A True ball first Big draw shot.

[mr3cushion]

This almost a 2 times the length of a 3C table, with heavier/61.5 balls, cloth is somewhat worn from 1 week of massive abuse of these demanding shots!

What's the one distinctive element that occurs during this shot?

 

[Bob Jewett]

One thing was the straight follow through into the cloth, bending the stick.

 

[lll]

he barely got there

 

[beatle]

iuhgfd

 

[mr3cushion]

and he had his first rail right there and english to help. and he barely got there.

and billiard tables are so much faster than pool tables. and he barely got there.

He did NOT get the first rail there, get your glasses checked! The 1st cushion was the short rail. It's a DIRECT draw from the CB to the OB, it's in the program.

Another guy that, 'knocks' what they can't understand or achieve.

 

[Jimmy B]

He had that bridge locked down tight with that thumb bracing it against the back of the rail. He was putting power into it and began raising up just a bit before the cue tip strikes the cue ball, sort of like breaking a rack of nine ball...

 

[mr3cushion]

He had that bridge locked down tight with that thumb bracing it against the back of the rail. He was putting power into it and began raising up just a bit before the cue tip strikes the cue ball, sort of like breaking a rack of nine ball...

Very observant Jimmy! It's not what I was thinking, but, it is a BIG secret when playing tough draw shots/force-follow shots just off the rails. Lock the bridge hand down on the rail, and push with your thumb on the the sideboard to give some more stability for the bridge, because the follow-thru will be extreme.

A little hint, it has to do with the CB's movement.

 

[sorackem]

The CB sat there for a split-second after contact before it settled and grabbed the cloth to get underway.

 

[Bob Jewett]

When the competition was played with ivory balls (prior to about 1990), this was a 3-cushion shot since it is more or less impossible to keep an ivory ball from going through to the cushion at that speed. The plastic cue ball stops pretty much dead on that shot. The official catalog I have of the shots allows the long rail just after the first object ball but does not require that cushion.

 

[sorackem]

more or less impossible to keep an ivory ball from going through to the cushion at that speed

I'm puzzled. What about equal mass? What physics cause the ivory ball to move past contact?

 

[Bob Jewett]

I'm puzzled. What about equal mass? What physics cause the ivory ball to move past contact?

Equal mass only applies if no energy is lost in the collision. Clearly some energy is lost because you can hear the collision. It turns out that ivory is much more lossy (or much less perfect) than phenolic for collisions. This means that it is easy to follow with an ivory ball and hard to draw. It is also easy to get "follow-draw" with ivory where the cue ball advances some before it pulls back.

The worst case for loss would be for something like modelling clay balls where they would stick together and go forward as one lump. Conservation of momentum says that they would be moving at half the original speed. Momentum is conserved in all collisions.

Phenolic balls also advance a little for a full hit but it is much harder to see.

 

[mr3cushion]

When the competition was played with ivory balls (prior to about 1990), this was a 3-cushion shot since it is more or less impossible to keep an ivory ball from going through to the cushion at that speed. The plastic cue ball stops pretty much dead on that shot. The official catalog I have of the shots allows the long rail just after the first object ball but does not require that cushion.

Bob, from the action of the CB, do you think this player contacted the side rail immediately, after the OB?

 

[Bob Jewett]

Bob, from the action of the CB, do you think this player contacted the side rail immediately, after the OB?

If you go frame-at-a-time (the "." key in YouTube), it looks like he hit the OB very slightly on the left side but that could be just the camera angle. It also looks like the cue ball advanced for the first two frames after contact. Maybe it barely brushed the cushion, but I don't think so. In any case it would not have gotten any benefit from hitting the cushion at such low speed. All the action was from draw and later the running english out of the corner.

 

[sorackem]

Clearly some energy is lost because you can hear the collision

Thank you, Bob.
The clay balls bit helped me understand 'more lossy', better.
(however, I'm wondering what kind of a rabbit hole you just sent me down - https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/289565/what-happens-to-energy-lost-as-sound)
-alice

 

[mr3cushion]

The element no one has mentioned is, because the player contacted the, 'ball only' the CB took the draw action halfway to the short cushion, the CB picks up speed before the first rail.

 

[lfigueroa]

This almost a 2 times the length of a 3C table, with heavier/61.5 balls, cloth is somewhat worn from 1 week of massive abuse of these demanding shots!

What's the one distinctive element that occurs during this shot?

Good grief -- it's probably attributable to his proper selection of one of the many cues those guys had table side -- I mean, really, has there ever been a pool match with THAT many cues put together and available to the players?!

So... I'm guessing he just choose the "Draw Cue" and it was easy peasy.

Lou Figueroa

 

[gulfportdoc]

Were they playing 3C? As you said, Bill, he only got 2 rails. The ref must have assumed he caught the long rail first.

 

[mr3cushion]

Were they playing 3C? As you said, Bill, he only got 2 rails. The ref must have assumed he caught the long rail first.

This is the Finals of the, 'World Artistic Billiard Championship'. 3 cushions are not always a requirement. Just as in the 'Artistic Pool Championship' which, Mike Massey, Tom Rossman and Andy Segal have participated in, you are allowed to use whatever and how many cues the Director deems appropriate for the event.

 

[Bob Jewett]

This is the Finals of the, 'World Artistic Billiard Championship'. 3 cushions are not always a requirement....

And here is a no-cushion-required shot from that championship. The difficulty is 10 out of 11 max.


The mark on the table is a small peg that the cue ball is required to go around before scoring the simple carom. The full program of shots is here: https://www.ciba-online.net/

 

[cincy_kid]

And here is a no-cushion-required shot from that championship. The difficulty is 10 out of 11 max.

View attachment 432809
The mark on the table is a small peg that the cue ball is required to go around before scoring the simple carom. The full program of shots is here: https://www.ciba-online.net/

Now that is a damn stroke, lol....so was the initial draw shot my mr3c...wish I had that kind of stroke!