Howz about some shooting for a change?

[Cowboy Dennis]

There is another ball running axiom that could be considered here.
1. Whenever reasonable and possible, get to the top of the balls.
Beard

Incidentally, I dont know if anybody else is taking advantage of these little tidbits (axioms) that have been dropped here, but let me say this. I file all this stuff and you will see it again in a book or DVD that other people will pay to read or see.

Well I certainly hope you send royalty checks to those who wrote it first in this thread :

post #10

Keeping balls between the cueball & pocket is always a good strategy.

post #16

If I shoot the ball closest to the hole I will try to get up behind the farthest ball away, provided shooting lanes are open, and work my way back down.

post #17

With certain exceptions I usually try to keep as many balls between the cueball and my pocket as is reasonably possible. I like to get "above" or "behind" the furthest balls and work my way in.

Cowboy "gettin' to the top & behind" Dennis

 

[lll]

Freddie,

Actually I never looked at your order of shooting beyond the second ball. I would ask everybody out there that would shoot the 6 last one question though: If you shoot the 9, 2, 1 and then fail to get on the 6 would you feel like a damn fool for passing up the FREE opportunity to have done so on your first shot?

Dennis

i think those who shot that sequence
would say i made 3 we both need one and i get first shot to play safe
(i didnt understand i could have had 2 chances at the 6)
just sayin

 

[blackeee]

We get a lot of great move-and-safe problems around here, but sometimes you have to shoot. And getting out when you get the chance to shoot depends a lot on your pattern skills.

So, here's a simple problem to start with. Maybe we can get more complicated ones in the future.

You need them all. How are you going to get them into pocket A?

Skin

[CUETABLE]http://pool.bz/P/?@4AQtf4BbQR3FPDw4IKSi3PIdn4QdGs@[/CUETABLE]

9-1-2-6. Either shoot the 6 straigt in or bank it depending on the angle get on the2.

 

[Rod]

I played some today so I set this up. How you play position depends on exact ball placement. I assumed the 9 was an inch or a tad more off the rail. From that position there is no way to play shape on the 6. Closer to 2" off the rail probably would have been ideal or the c/b at a lesser angle.

I said I preferred the 9 2 1 6, my reasoning was simple. I would not risk hitting the 6. Skin played good position so the ball placement has to be a little off. Going the other way getting three balls is fairly simple. Then use the long or short rail from the one to the 6. And no I would not regret a free try from the 9 to the 6. Its not free especially if you come up a bit short and hooked on the one. That is a small window, a little off and its a problem. The 6 is only one foot off the rail I presume.

Rod

 

[Jimmy B]

I played some today so I set this up. How you play position depends on exact ball placement. I assumed the 9 was an inch or a tad more off the rail. From that position there is no way to play shape on the 6. Closer to 2" off the rail probably would have been ideal or the c/b at a lesser angle.

I said I preferred the 9 2 1 6, my reasoning was simple. I would not risk hitting the 6. Skin played good position so the ball placement has to be a little off. Going the other way getting three balls is fairly simple. Then use the long or short rail from the one to the 6. And no I would not regret a free try from the 9 to the 6. Its not free especially if you come up a bit short and hooked on the one. That is a small window, a little off and its a problem. The 6 is only one foot off the rail I presume.

Rod

Hey Rod. That's why I said way back in post #4 that I would HAVE to go 9-2-1-6. It was not because I was smart or a good player but I wanted the worst case scenario to be that I was in the one hole and battling for the last ball. If I go 9-6 I would probably **** it up and get froze to the back side of the 6 and have nothing else. And then when Mr. Stroud said that he would run them the exact way I intended along with Big John B. and Freddy too, I felt ok with it. I also was 95% sure that Freddy had inadvertenly put up the sequence that he hadn't intended to, even before he told us so. All that being said, I would still have to check with Artie Bodendorfer and Red Card before I was certain about it. Also I would want to deal with the 2 which is against the rail while I have a nice easy way to get on it with a lot of room for error, and the one is there to fall on next, otherwise I would probably **** that up also as I always was fairly weak with railshots when I had to play position. Sort of like a spot shot with me. If I just had to make it, I'm ok. But if I had to make a spot shot and do things with the cueball too, I was apt to **** it up royally........

 

[SJDinPHX]

I played some today so I set this up. How you play position depends on exact ball placement. I assumed the 9 was an inch or a tad more off the rail. From that position there is no way to play shape on the 6. Closer to 2" off the rail probably would have been ideal or the c/b at a lesser angle.
"You can't be serious" (John MacEnroe voice)

I said I preferred the 9 2 1 6, my reasoning was simple. I would not risk hitting the 6. Skin played good position so the ball placement has to be a little off. Going the other way getting three balls is fairly simple. Then use the long or short rail from the one to the 6. And no I would not regret a free try from the 9 to the 6. Its not free especially if you come up a bit short and hooked on the one. That is a small window, a little off and its a problem. The 6 is only one foot off the rail I presume.
Rod, as was previously noted, (posts #6 and 11)...If you are sewed up on the 1ball, you are straight in on the 6..

Rod

Is this Rod Elliot ? Hi Rod, this is San Jose Dick...Ronnie A. and I played several sessions at your old joint..(Rack and Cue, wasn't it ?)..when he demanded neutral territory.....If I recall, you and I played a few times too..

I remember the first time we played in there...It was kinda funny. RA and his backer, were down the first set. You aways had good equipment, but he had been grumbling about the lighting. (if the lighting had been good, he would have bitched about the equipment)...I remember you had 3 card table type lights, with 100 watt bulbs.

His backer had paid off the first set, and the money was still up. We were flipping for the next set, when RA unscrewed a light bulb, checked the wattage, and stormed out the door, saying he'd be right back...He went up the street to an all night drug store, and came back with three 350 watt bulbs, and screwed them all in, and they lit up the whole pool room...
I jokingly told him I wouldn't play because of the possibilty getting sun burned...After several well chosen obcenities from him, of course we continued playing...I believe at that time, my eyes were weaker than RA's. The added light sure didn't hurt me any. I played one of my best sessions ever.

RA has come up with several new gimmicks over the years, as I had become almost sharkproof to his incessant chatter...Some of them actually worked..That one didn't..

PS..Sorry for the war story insertion/break/hi-jack..Carry on with the ball running, argument/discussion/debate/fiasco...

PPS..Skin, that was kinda fun...amazing how everyone looks at a layout a little differently...Put one up, a little more challenging, like where you need about 5 balls, with his game ball setting in the hole... (everybody's favorite scenario)

 

[fred bentivegna]

I was actually talking about...

I was actually talking about...

Well I certainly hope you send royalty checks to those who wrote it first in this thread :

post #10


post #16


post #17


Cowboy "gettin' to the top & behind" Dennis

...all the little axioms I, and y'all, have mentioned. I marvel at how easily they get glossed over. If you, Skin and Stroud are expecting a check, good luck to you. If you put in a chit, and a 5 vote promisary package, and send it to Congress they might pay it off.

Beard

 

[Rod]

Is this Rod Elliot ? Hi Rod, this is San Jose Dick...Ronnie A. and I played several sessions at your old joint..(Rack and Cue, wasn't it ?)..

Hey Dick,

Yes I remember, the name was Pool & Brew, aptly named I think. 350 watts eh? I wondered why the cloth had a smoke tint! Yes we played, but I was not a 1P player at the time. RA still owes me 50, kissed that off long ago.

So how far is the 9 off the rail and where is the c/b? Because you ain't getting position from that angle if the 9 is an inch off the rail. I think youse guys really need glasses or are Houdini. Yes you can be hooked on the 1 with a with no or a real poor shot on the 6. Wanna see? Well anyway I know these set ups are for learning the best routes and are approximate. A good player should know what's possible and what is risky. Some choose alternate routes based on ability. If they only get three, they still have the first pop at the out ball.

Rod

 

[Cary]

Some choose alternate routes based on ability. If they only get three, they still have the first pop at the out ball.
Rod

Bingo.

FWIW, anyone who doesn't chose routes based on their ability is, or soon will be, a loser.

 

[philwelch]

I would also shoot 9,2,1,6. Those folks that are playing the six as the second ball must play perfect 'cause I'd be afraid that some of the time I might get to close to the six and not have a shot.

I think the test would be to have this sequence set up and two players shoot their sequence ten times and add up the balls pocketed.

I, for one feel certain that I would have a better ball count with the 9,2,1,6 sequence.

 

[Skin]

So how far is the 9 off the rail and where is the c/b? Because you ain't getting position from that angle if the 9 is an inch off the rail. I think youse guys really need glasses or are Houdini.

Rod

Hello, Rod. I just set it up exactly as drawn (9 about 1/4 inch off the cushion). No problem. Here's how I did it. Just gotta watch the speed and juice the cb.

Skin

[CUETABLE]http://pool.bz/P/?@4AQtf4BbQR3FPDw4IKSi3PIdn4QdGs3kIdn4kHph4kHpk3kbVr3kVwL1uCdO@[/CUETABLE]

 

[John Brumback]

Hello, Rod. I just set it up exactly as drawn (9 about 1/4 inch off the cushion). No problem. Here's how I did it. Just gotta watch the speed and juice the cb.

Skin

[CUETABLE]http://pool.bz/P/?@4AQtf4BbQR3FPDw4IKSi3PIdn4QdGs3kIdn4kHph4kHpk3kbVr3kVwL1uCdO@[/CUETABLE]

IMO that has to be the hardest way to get on that 6 ball that there Is on the whole layout.A top straight pool player would never ever try to get on that ball like that.And we are talking about running balls here aren't we?
That Is a good stroke you had to put on that ball to do that,I'll agree with that.But I'm always looking for the natural angle to get on balls like that 6.
Going from the one to 6 Is the most natural path and angle.Who wants to have to draw spin and hope?John B.

 

[fred bentivegna]

I knew...

I knew...

IMO that has to be the hardest way to get on that 6 ball that there Is on the whole layout.A top straight pool player would never ever try to get on that ball like that.And we are talking about running balls here aren't we?
That Is a good stroke you had to put on that ball to do that,I'll agree with that.But I'm always looking for the natural angle to get on balls like that 6.
Going from the one to 6 Is the most natural path and angle.Who wants to have to draw spin and hope?John B.

...there had to be some reason that you were a top player.

Beard

 

[John Brumback]

...there had to be some reason that you were a top player.

Beard

Sheww Thanks,I thought you were going to jump on me with that "I knew"
haha John B.

 

[Skin]

IMO that has to be the hardest way to get on that 6 ball that there Is on the whole layout.A top straight pool player would never ever try to get on that ball like that.And we are talking about running balls here aren't we?
That Is a good stroke you had to put on that ball to do that,I'll agree with that.But I'm always looking for the natural angle to get on balls like that 6.
Going from the one to 6 Is the most natural path and angle.Who wants to have to draw spin and hope?John B.

I'm not disagreeing with you, John, but different strokes for different folks. I just remember stepping to the table and looking at both ways (9-6 and 9-1) and thinking when I looked at the 9-6 the second time, "I can do that." And did.

I think an important part of picking your pattern is to make sure you are not planning to shoot your way into a dead end. That is, that you have a way worked out to get all of the balls available and then get safe if you're not out.

Skin

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

I haven't yet seen any advocates of the 9,2,1,6 or the 9,1,2,6 route show any cognizance whatsoever of what can go wrong with those patterns so let me point out a few things for y'all.

Firstly, we are not discussing 14.1 and ball-running, we're talking about running balls into one pocket ONLY. They are completely different things and it would be nice if anybody here would recgnize that.

Secondly, those who don't want to "take a chance" should not leave their homes everyday. Taking chances when the right opportunity presents is what we, or at least, what I do.

Now let's look at the layout and see what can go wrong shooting the 9,2,1,6. Let's first all agree that a complete moron should get three balls from here, that's a given.

[CUETABLE]http://pool.bz/P/?@4AQtf4BbQR3FPDw4IKSi3PIdn4QKdN4RROO4lKdN4lRCf4mROO4mRCe@[/CUETABLE]
If you get to the right of the "A" cueball (after shooting the 2 ball) or to the left of the "B" cueball you won't really have a "natural" angle to the 6 ball anymore. Everybody has been advocating the "natural" angle to the 6 but till now no one's mentioned how small the target area is for that. It's not that big guys.

You must also shoot the 9 very good to get on the 2 in such a manner that you can get your "natural" angle on the 1 to get to the 6. You will also be stretching out over the table to shoot the 2 if you are left-handed and to shoot the 1 no matter which hand you play with. If you fail to draw back far enough off the 2 you may even be using a bridge to shoot the 1. All of this can be easily screwed up by the top ten players in the world probably 5 times out of ten, what chance would y'all give yourselves???

I've shot the shapes on the 6 (off the 9) many times in situations like these, sometimes it worked out and sometimes it didn't but I took the shot on my cash and would do it again in a heartbeat in the right situation.

Dennis

 

[philwelch]

I haven't yet seen any advocates of the 9,2,1,6 or the 9,1,2,6 route show any cognizance whatsoever of what can go wrong with those patterns so let me point out a few things for y'all.

Firstly, we are not discussing 14.1 and ball-running, we're talking about running balls into one pocket ONLY. They are completely different things and it would be nice if anybody here would recgnize that.

Secondly, those who don't want to "take a chance" should not leave their homes everyday. Taking chances when the right opportunity presents is what we, or at least, what I do.

Now let's look at the layout and see what can go wrong shooting the 9,2,1,6. Let's first all agree that a complete moron should get three balls from here, that's a given.

[CUETABLE]http://pool.bz/P/?@4AQtf4BbQR3FPDw4IKSi3PIdn4QKdN4RROO4lKdN4lRCf4mROO4mRCe@[/CUETABLE]
If you get to the right of the "A" cueball (after shooting the 2 ball) or to the left of the "B" cueball you won't really have a "natural" angle to the 6 ball anymore. Everybody has been advocating the "natural" angle to the 6 but till now no one's mentioned how small the target area is for that. It's not that big guys.

You must also shoot the 9 very good to get on the 2 in such a manner that you can get your "natural" angle on the 1 to get to the 6. You will also be stretching out over the table to shoot the 2 if you are left-handed and to shoot the 1 no matter which hand you play with. If you fail to draw back far enough off the 2 you may even be using a bridge to shoot the 1. All of this can be easily screwed up by the top ten players in the world probably 5 times out of ten, what chance would y'all give yourselves???

I've shot the shapes on the 6 (off the 9) many times in situations like these, sometimes it worked out and sometimes it didn't but I took the shot on my cash and would do it again in a heartbeat in the right situation.

Dennis

Dennis, after making the nine where would you like to stop for the six?
If you want to take chances why not play the cueball up and down to get on the six? I'm sure you play better than me, but I have to play the 9,2,1, 6 and more than likely I would bank the six having an angle to hit the six with pocket speed and park the cueball on the end rail.
And, I don't think the top 10 players in the world could screw this up 5 out of 10 times.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Dennis, after making the nine where would you like to stop for the six?
If you want to take chances why not play the cue ball up and down to get on the six? I'm sure you play better than me, but I have to play the 9,2,1, 6 and more than likely I would bank the six having an angle to hit the six with pocket speed and park the cue ball on the end rail.
And, I don't think the top 10 players in the world could screw this up 5 out of 10 times.

Phil,

When Skin first posted this layout I figured the 9 was slightly more off the rail than it came through on the WEI. I chalked it up to slight differences that arise when a person makes a WEI table and how we all see it different. Now, if I'm not mistaken, he says the 9 was a quarter-inch off the rail. That makes the shot pretty tough on the table I play on but the only thing that matters here is if you can get to the 6 reasonably easy from the 9. I have been assuming that since he got on the 6 from the 9 then it was a feasible shot. To answer your question, I wouldn't mind being straight in on the 6.

I never said I liked to take chances, I said that in the right situation I weigh my odds and don't mind taking a chance if that's what I feel is the right thing to do. Going 2 rails up & down is just ridiculous and I'm fairly certain you know that.

When you say that the top 10 players in the world couldn't screw this up 5 out of 10 times do you mean that they'd make the 9, get properly on the 2, make the 2 and get properly on the 1, make the 1 and get shapes on the 6? Having to do all these things considerably reduces your target areas on each ball you shoot. It's not the same as just getting three balls. You must get on the 2 properly so that you can get to the 1 properly so you have a natural angle to the 6. You must do several things very well to get on the 6 ball. All I'm saying is why not try to get on the 6 on your first shot if the opportunity presents? You are already in the neighborhood so why not stop in? I don't like playing shapes on the same ball twice. I'm fully aware of all the negative things that can happen when trying to get on the 6 from the 9 ball but if I don't get on it I will probably get a shot at the 1 and continue my run. Most times I will also get at least three balls just like most players. That fourth ball is what separates players (not that I'm a great one).

Dennis

 

[John Brumback]

I haven't yet seen any advocates of the 9,2,1,6 or the 9,1,2,6 route show any cognizance whatsoever of what can go wrong with those patterns so let me point out a few things for y'all.

Firstly, we are not discussing 14.1 and ball-running, we're talking about running balls into one pocket ONLY. They are completely different things and it would be nice if anybody here would recgnize that.

Secondly, those who don't want to "take a chance" should not leave their homes everyday. Taking chances when the right opportunity presents is what we, or at least, what I do.

Now let's look at the layout and see what can go wrong shooting the 9,2,1,6. Let's first all agree that a complete moron should get three balls from here, that's a given.

[CUETABLE]http://pool.bz/P/?@4AQtf4BbQR3FPDw4IKSi3PIdn4QKdN4RROO4lKdN4lRCf4mROO4mRCe@[/CUETABLE]
If you get to the right of the "A" cueball (after shooting the 2 ball) or to the left of the "B" cueball you won't really have a "natural" angle to the 6 ball anymore. Everybody has been advocating the "natural" angle to the 6 but till now no one's mentioned how small the target area is for that. It's not that big guys.

You must also shoot the 9 very good to get on the 2 in such a manner that you can get your "natural" angle on the 1 to get to the 6. You will also be stretching out over the table to shoot the 2 if you are left-handed and to shoot the 1 no matter which hand you play with. If you fail to draw back far enough off the 2 you may even be using a bridge to shoot the 1. All of this can be easily screwed up by the top ten players in the world probably 5 times out of ten, what chance would y'all give yourselves???

I've shot the shapes on the 6 (off the 9) many times in situations like these, sometimes it worked out and sometimes it didn't but I took the shot on my cash and would do it again in a heartbeat in the right situation.

Dennis

Wait a minute here..are you trying to be or wanting to be a onepocket player
here or do you want to win the game? I'm confused? I think It would help alot of people here If they would just practice a little straight pool.If you learn how to run a rack or 10 you would learn how to find these easy patterns.I'm bettin my $ on the easy way out.
Ps: how many are left handed? Not me,Yes I have had a few beers.LOL John B.

 

[John Brumback]

I'm not disagreeing with you, John, but different strokes for different folks. I just remember stepping to the table and looking at both ways (9-6 and 9-1) and thinking when I looked at the 9-6 the second time, "I can do that." And did.

I think an important part of picking your pattern is to make sure you are not planning to shoot your way into a dead end. That is, that you have a way worked out to get all of the balls available and then get safe if you're not out.

Skin

Ok Skin,sorry,I didn't mean to sound rude and like a know It all.I was just trying to be helpful bud.Your right on the planning ahead part for sure.John B.
PS; glad you didn't take that the wrong way.