Bustamante vs. Gabe Owen 2008 D.C.C. #2

[Cowboy Dennis]

Since my pm & e-mail inboxes are overflowing with people wanting to know, here is the layout for Gabe's shot. What would you do? Now leave me alone .

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

I would definitely shoot the 2-rail reverse english kick here...

- Gho$ty

 

[bstroud]

No easy way here.

I think I would elevate the cue a little and shoot the 7 into the 10 hoping to take out the 4 as well and use force follow to put the cue ball on the end rail.

The important part of the shot is to make sure you get the cue ball on the end rail. If you miss taking out the 4 you still get safe.

With the balls as they are you are going to lose the game anyway if you don't take drastic action now when the balls are still clustered.

Not an easy shot but worth the risk.

Bill Stroud

 

[timdog24]

I think I'd either take an intentional softly into the stack or softly underneath the 7 ball.

 

[Gerry]

I'm shooting into the 1-15-8 combo into my pocket......then following down into the 10 to move balls away from his pocket.....



? G.

 

[senor]

No easy way here.

I think I would elevate the cue a little and shoot the 7 into the 10 hoping to take out the 4 as well and use force follow to put the cue ball on the end rail.

The important part of the shot is to make sure you get the cue ball on the end rail. If you miss taking out the 4 you still get safe.

With the balls as they are you are going to lose the game anyway if you don't take drastic action now when the balls are still clustered.

Not an easy shot but worth the risk.

Bill Stroud

Thinking along the same lines except I was looking at the 5 ball into the 7 ball next to busty's hole.

 

[senor]

Soft kick at the 7 ball next to busty's hole could afford you a chance to turn position around if busty shoots the 5 ball bank and misses, because you're obviously going to give up that shot.

 

[wincardona]

This is a very tough situation to negotiate considering how the balls are positioned. If at all possible I would like to position a ball on my side of the table, or break up the 9,11 balll cluster on my side of the table. I would attempt to do this by kicking off the side rail with a low ball, contacting the 4 ball and hopefully send it toward my side of the table or toward the stack. Using a low ball will reduce the scratch possibility greatly, but you must shoot the shot like you own it and don't let up on your stroke. If you have a decent feel for this type of kick you will get rewarded for your recognition on these types of shots.

To many this type of shot may be too intimidating to try, but like I have mentioned many times you must develope the feel for all kinds of shots, and the feel for these types of shots should be developed and incorporated into your arsenal of shots.

Taking an intentional scratch in this situation is difficult because of the cluster on your side of the table. You will give your opponent too many options as long as the balls on your side of the table remain where they are.

Sometimes the view perspective that a picture offers is not the way the shooter sees it. It's possible that there isn't enough room to kick to the side rail to kick the 4 ball, then the intentional would be more appealing.

Strouds shot imo is very risky and the angle and distance makes his shot more difficult to execute. If the angle to take out the 10 and 4 ball was a better angle with a little less distance to travel his shot would be imo much more appealing.

Billy I.

 

[blackeee]

This is a very tough situation to negotiate considering how the balls are positioned. If at all possible I would like to position a ball on my side of the table, or break up the 9,11 balll cluster on my side of the table. I would attempt to do this by kicking off the side rail with a low ball, contacting the 4 ball and hopefully send it toward my side of the table or toward the stack. Using a low ball will reduce the scratch possibility greatly, but you must shoot the shot like you own it and don't let up on your stroke. If you have a decent feel for this type of kick you will get rewarded for your recognition on these types of shots.

To many this type of shot may be too intimidating to try, but like I have mentioned many times you must develope the feel for all kinds of shots, and the feel for these types of shots should be developed and incorporated into your arsenal of shots.

Taking an intentional scratch in this situation is difficult because of the cluster on your side of the table. You will give your opponent too many options as long as the balls on your side of the table remain where they are.

Sometimes the view perspective that a picture offers is not the way the shooter sees it. It's possible that there isn't enough room to kick to the side rail to kick the 4 ball, then the intentional would be more appealing.

Strouds shot imo is very risky and the angle and distance makes his shot more difficult to execute. If the angle to take out the 10 and 4 ball was a better angle with a little less distance to travel his shot would be imo much more appealing.

Billy I.

I would shoot Billys or opg's shot.

 

[ace]

I would hit this shot as a draw shot off the rail as square as possible and have the c-ball just fall to the end rail and sending the 7-ball into the stack.

 

[lll]

i know this is pretty passive but whats wrong with some variation of this approach??

p.s this greenshot done by new method of saving to computer first instead of "capture region". thanks dennis

 

[lll]

leaving a bank on the pink ball could be a problem

 

[lll]

if struck firmly the pink ball would end up on my side ,the 15 i dont think would move much as it seems to be a full hit into the pink ball AND you knock the 4 away.
if thinned(15 ball) so the pink ball doesnt move much you get under the 4 and live?for another day.
please critique the pros and cons of this idea.diagrammed above.

 

[lll]

another option

 

[wincardona]

another option
View attachment 2229

In order for this shot to be playable you would have to have a straight angle leading into the 10, 4 ball combo. The shot that you are illustrating requires a cut to the right on the 10 ball which will send the cue ball to the left not straight ahead. If you notice your line drawing, there's a lot of lines close to one another and the yellow cue ball line is in the center of the mix, which to me looks like a certain collision. Sorta like driving your car through a red light into traffic if you know what I mean. Bottom line, you need to be straight with the angle for this shot to be playable, and you would want to either draw the cue ball or stop the cue ball to stay out of harms way with this shot. The angle shown is not conducive to your shot, I hope you understand.

Billy I.

 

[wincardona]

I believe that Gabe's thinking how he can move the 7 ball, if the 7 ball is in the position that makes it hard to defend against you must then figure out how to move it, if possible. By playing a timid safe or taking an intentional you must be mindful of the return options you leave your opponent, too often this mistake is made and it's a serious one. Not only do you lose a ball but you figure to find yourself back in trouble again on your next shot. I believe the key to this solution is to move the 7 ball.

Billy I.

 

[wincardona]

I would hit this shot as a draw shot off the rail as square as possible and have the c-ball just fall to the end rail and sending the 7-ball into the stack.

That's the shot I like if available, but your white cue ball line shows that the cue ball is following straight through the 7 ball, when in fact it should be shown to go to the side rail and then to the bottom rail. That's the action that the cue ball will show with a draw stroke.

Billy I.

 

[androd]

if struck firmly the pink ball would end up on my side ,the 15 i dont think would move much as it seems to be a full hit into the pink ball AND you knock the 4 away.
if thinned(15 ball) so the pink ball doesnt move much you get under the 4 and live?for another day.
please critique the pros and cons of this idea.diagrammed above.

Larry, I'm doubtful either of your choices would work. You'd have to run a Jewish Deli to slice the 15 ball that thin. If you happen to hit it that thin the CB will probably miss the 4 ball. The other shot you probably can't get past the solid OB on the way. I like the kick that Billy I ( if available ) and Ace like, but drawing the ball changes the angle and may hit the wrong side of the 7 ball. I almost never take an intentional, but I don't see any flyers here. I think Senor has the best idea.
Rod.

 

[senor]

I like the kick that Billy I ( if available ) and Ace like, but drawing the ball changes the angle and may hit the wrong side of the 7 ball.
Rod.

Yes, if you use the "mirror" system, you basically have to aim a full ball lower down the rail with draw than if you were just aiming to naturally soft kick into the rail. Like the good doctor said, the shot needs to be cultivated

 

[wincardona]

Yes, if you use the "mirror" system, you basically have to aim a full ball lower down the rail with draw than if you were just aiming to naturally soft kick into the rail. Like the good doctor said, the shot needs to be cultivated

I agree with your reasoning to a degree, with a sharp angle your going to get less of an effect in regard to the cue ball action, opposed to a straighter angle into the rail kick. What I don't like is the view the picture shows, it looks like it's marginal for this shot to be comfortably playable with a low ball, and if that's the case we might have to look else-where.

Billy I.