What Makes A Legend?

[Cowboy Dennis]

I would have to add that legends also have to be carried out feet-first. They aren't going to quit easy. Whatever their sport is, they want to keep playing it until the end. Pool lends itself to that since a man can play it until he drops.

You can't keep the legends down, they keep coming at you no matter what happens. No matter the sport or the man, if he's a legend he ain't gonna stop coming at you until he drops dead. That's why he's a legend.

Dennis

Legends & champions also don't feel a need to tell you how bad you played when they beat you nor will they tell you that you "play too good" to match up again the same way. Legends are waiting for a rematch, not avoiding it.

Dennis

 

[bstroud]

Whitey

Whitey

Anyone that doesn't think Whitey was a great player never spent much time around him.

When I was young and hanging at the Cotton Palace with Titanic and other Legends I was playing Bobby Chapman giving him the 5 and the break for 5K a game. Betting my own money. Very tough game and I was lucky to break even.
I was the best player in Texas at that time.

Whitey gave him the same game and robbed him. He was that good.

Bill Stroud

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Anyone that doesn't think Whitey was a great player never spent much time around him.


Bill Stroud

Bill,

Nobody anywhere in this thread questioned Whitey's talent, it was his character or the lack of it that was questioned.

Dennis

 

[bstroud]

Bill,

Nobody anywhere in this thread questioned Whitey's talent, it was his character or the lack of it that was questioned.

Dennis

He was not nice but you need to keep the era in perspective.
There were a lot of not so nice players then.
Most of us acted like outlaws anyway. None of us conformed to society.
We all led our own lives. Fun though.

Bill Stroud

 

[SJDinPHX]

Anyone that doesn't think Whitey was a great player never spent much time around him.

When I was young and hanging at the Cotton Palace with Titanic and other Legends I was playing Bobby Chapman giving him the 5 and the break for 5K a game. Betting my own money. Very tough game and I was lucky to break even.
I was the best player in Texas at that time.

Whitey gave him the same game and robbed him. He was that good.

Bill Stroud

Excuse me Bill...but when Whitey and I were around, wouldn't that make you the third best player in Texas ???.

Jes' kiddin' ya Bill,...But, at that time, there were quite a few guys in Texas that could draw their rock...Most of them hung out in Houston...

 

[bstroud]

Excuse me Bill...but when Whitey and I were around, wouldn't that make you the third best player in Texas ???.

Jes' kiddin' ya Bill,...But, at that time, there were quite a few guys in Texas that could draw their rock...Most of them hung out in Houston...

Dick,

I beat everyone that came to the Cotton Place. Pucket, Grady, Craig Stevens,Freddy Sessions,Slim Burrel,and all the Houston players that came to Dallas. Never played Don Watson.Not sure if I would have won.

Tried to play Whitey after he beat Bobby Chapmen but he went on a binge and left town. Beat Cannonball and James Brown at the Black pool room.
Never went to Houston much except with Pucket and Taylor.
The Cotton Palace had better action.

Bill

 

[SJDinPHX]

Dick,

I beat everyone that came to the Cotton Place. Pucket, Grady, Craig Stevens,Freddy Sessions,Slim Burrel,and all the Houston players that came to Dallas. Never played Don Watson.Not sure if I would have won.

Tried to play Whitey after he beat Bobby Chapmen but he went on a binge and left town. Beat Cannonball and James Brown at the Black pool room.
Never went to Houston much except with Pucket and Taylor.
The Cotton Palace had better action.

Bill

I talk to Alfie almost daily. He has an exotic rug store, here in Phx. and one in Tuscon. he's still a pistol...Jack lives in Galveston...He is 80+ now and still going strong... Bill Porter was going to stop by and visit us a while back, but he didn't make it.

Sorry, but I would beg to differ, as to which place had the most consistent, long running, high $$$ action...

(Probably because there were no Charlies Boyd's, Vernon Litton's or George McGann's hanging around the LeCue..)..

 

[bstroud]

I talk to Alfie almost daily. He has an exotic rug store, here in Phx. and one in Tuscon. he's still a pistol...Jack lives in Galveston...He is 80+ now and still going strong... Bill Porter was going to stop by and visit us a while back, but he didn't make it.

Sorry, but I would beg to differ, as to which place had the most consistent, long running, high $$$ action...

(Probably because there were no Charlies Boyd's, Vernon Litton's or George McGann's hanging around the LeCue..)..

Dick,

I had left Texas before LeCue began to happen. Never was there.
Plan on being in Tucson sometime in March, Dallas 10 ball tourney in April and the Vegas one-pocket in May. Perhaps I will see you.
Still play?

Bill

 

[SJDinPHX]

Dick,

I had left Texas before LeCue began to happen. Never was there.
Plan on being in Tucson sometime in March, Dallas 10 ball tourney in April and the Vegas one-pocket in May. Perhaps I will see you.
Still play?

Bill

I still try to play...But, its getting tough to find a table, with 14 1/2 inch pockets... ...Sounds like you're still swinging at em'... Are you going to DCC this year ?

Plan on being in Vegas for the 1P for sure (My best game these days, is side betting)

 

[bstroud]

Dick,

Still playing. Planning on playing in the Vegas 1-pocket and the Dallas 10 ball.

Hard to find anyone local to play. Always giving up 13 to 5 and the break or something just as bad. Had a strange situation come up yesterday where I ran all the balls left on the table and needed one but no ball on the table to shoot.
I will try to get it onto the Wei table for people to see. Big argument.

Bill

 

[gulfportdoc]

Dick,

Still playing. Planning on playing in the Vegas 1-pocket and the Dallas 10 ball.

Hard to find anyone local to play. Always giving up 13 to 5 and the break or something just as bad. Had a strange situation come up yesterday where I ran all the balls left on the table and needed one but no ball on the table to shoot.
I will try to get it onto the Wei table for people to see. Big argument.

Bill, in that case you'd simply spot up the remaining ball that you need, then continue shooting. Here's the rule from 1p.o:

9.2 Any penalty balls owed by the shooter, or balls pocketed in a neutral pocket, are to be spotted at the end of the shooter’s inning. However, if a player runs off all the balls on the table without reaching a winning score, then all such balls are spotted immediately (all at once, not one ball at a time), and the shooter continues their inning. At no other time in One Pocket are balls spotted during any shooter’s ongoing inning.

Doc

 

[OldSchool]

When I was young and hanging at the Cotton Palace with Titanic and other Legends I was playing Bobby Chapman giving him the 5 and the break for 5K a game. Betting my own money.
I was the best player in Texas at that time.

Bill Stroud

I beat everyone that came to the Cotton Place. Pucket, Grady, Craig Stevens,Freddy Sessions,Slim Burrel,and all the Houston players that came to Dallas.

Tried to play Whitey after he beat Bobby Chapmen but he went on a binge and left town. Beat Cannonball and James Brown at the Black pool room.

Bill

Mr. Stroud,

I have to say that I think you’re doing an excellent job of filling in for Freddie The Beard while he is on hiatus.

Have you ever thought of compiling a complete list of all of the players you have beat? Probably a lot of people here on the site would enjoy reading it.

By the way, Freddie ‘The Beard’ Bentivegna has such a list, and I happened to notice that your name is on it. You’re listed as one of the many players that Freddie beat when he played you both banks and one pocket. Just wondering, do you happen to remember if that was a close match, or did Freddie torture you?

Thanks, Old School

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Mr. Stroud,

I have to say that I think you’re doing an excellent job of filling in for Freddie The Beard while he is on hiatus.

Have you ever thought of compiling a complete list of all of the players you have beat? Probably a lot of people here on the site would enjoy reading it.

By the way, Freddie ‘The Beard’ Bentivegna has such a list, and I happened to notice that your name is on it. You’re listed as one of the many players that Freddie beat when he played you both banks and one pocket. Just wondering, do you happen to remember if that was a close match, or did Freddie torture you?

Thanks, Old School

Dear Old School,

I suppose that you haven't heard that this is now a "no bragging zone". All of that shit is gone forever .

View attachment No Bragging Zone2.bmp

 

[bstroud]

Mr. Stroud,

I have to say that I think you’re doing an excellent job of filling in for Freddie The Beard while he is on hiatus.

Have you ever thought of compiling a complete list of all of the players you have beat? Probably a lot of people here on the site would enjoy reading it.

By the way, Freddie ‘The Beard’ Bentivegna has such a list, and I happened to notice that your name is on it. You’re listed as one of the many players that Freddie beat when he played you both banks and one pocket. Just wondering, do you happen to remember if that was a close match, or did Freddie torture you?

Thanks, Old School

Since you asked:

I have always liked Freddie but he never played good enough to beat me playing any game.

The last time we played was at Bennie's in DC. Playing even one pocket I beat him 12 in a row for 20.00 a game. He kept wandering off to get more money. He owed me for the last game and was the only pool player to ever pay me for the last game.

I is easier for me to count the players that beat me than the other way around.

In one pocket there was San Jose Dick when I was very young. Two years later he would have had no chance. I beat him at 9 ball the day before.

Allen Hopkins beat me once and I beat him once for a lot more money.

Joey Spathe beat me 3 games. Difficult to play him with all the powder on the table.

Worst loss was to Eddy Kelly. He was the best one pocket player at the time. He ran 10 and out the last 3 games.

Guys I beat in one pocket: Freddy, Miz, Siegel, Cook, Incardona, Grady, Pucket, Marvin Henderson, Cannonball and lots of others.

In 9 ball (my best game) I lost to Louie Roberts. Toby Sweet quit 5 games ahead. I don't think anyone else ever beat me at 9 ball.
Broke even with Miz. Never played Taylor, Wimpy. Some others. I wasn't crazy.

Played a 10 ahead session with Allen Keil in DC. Earl Shriver was staking him.
Allen was beating everyone on a table he had shimmed up real tight. Billy I. might remember it. I don't think he won a game. I paid the time after the session. It was 45 cents.

I also beat everyone on the bar table with the big cue ball.

Bill Stroud

 

[Ktown]

Where is the popcorn smilie face thingie when we really need one?

 

[androd]

Since you asked.



Worst loss was to Eddy Kelly. He was the best one pocket player at the time. He ran 10 and out the last 3 games.

He was spotting you 10 to what?

In 9 ball (my best game) I lost to Louie Roberts. Toby Sweet quit 5 games ahead. I don't think anyone else ever beat me at 9 ball.
Broke even with Miz. Never played Taylor, Wimpy. Some others. I wasn't crazy.

Bill Stroud

What about poor old crazy Doc Hazzard ?

 

[bstroud]

He was spotting you 10 to what?

Eddy and I were playing even. I had him in a trap every game and he owed 2 balls. He just shot his way out of everything.

I have never had a spot by anyone in any game.
I have always bet my own.




What about poor old crazy Doc Hazzard ?

I played Doc in a tournament in Macon GA. when I was traveling with Taylor.
Sloowest player in the game. A race to 11 took 6 hours. He won it 11-10.

I was never a good tournament player. Too slow.
Buddy beat me 11-10 in Dayton and Brian 11-10 in Sacramento.
Played much better gambling.

Bill Stroud

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Since you asked:

I have always liked Freddie but he never played good enough to beat me playing any game.

Bill Stroud

Bill,

There seems to be a discrepancy in the recollections of either Freddy or you.

I'm sure this "beat list" could be in error since it lists Cletus (at the Rack) as a victim playing even one-pocket. Unless there was a Cletus I didn't know about and there certainly could have been. The only Cletus I ever knew at the Rack got 8-3 and his fouls don't count from players my speed. It must be a different guy.

Here's a partial (it's very loooooooooooooooong) of the beat list from his site.


Who the hell did the Beard ever beat?
Following is a list of players the Beard beat PLAYING ALL OF THEM EVEN, at least ONCE, in a COMPLETE gambling session, or tournament match over his 50 year career.

Bill Cardone, Pittsburgh Billy Incardona — one pocket and banks
Bill Lawson – banks
Bill Memphis Rousey – tournament one pocket
Bill Mielke — 9 ball
Bill Stigall — one pocket
Billy Cornbread Red Burge — bank pool
Billy Joss West Stroud – banks and one pocket
Billy Weir
Black Iceman from LA — one pocket
Black Nate Colbert — banks
Bob Black Bart, Bob Ogburn — one pocket and banks
Bobby Hunter — one pocket
Brooklyn Charlie — one pocket
Bruce One Pocket Ghost Perri — one pocket
Bud Harris — one pocket
Cadillac Dave Piona
California John Mc Cue — one pocket and banks
California Shorty — banks
Cecil Rifleman, Buddy Hall — banks
Cecil The Left Duke Tugwell — one pocket and banks
Champagne Eddie Kelly — tournaments only — Vegas & Richmond Ky, One pocket and 9 ball
Charles Country Monroe — one pocket
Charles Low Down Dirty Preacher Red Jones — one pocket
Charles Rosie Rosenblatt — one pocket
Charlie left handed from Ky. Jones — one pocket and banks
Charlie the Ape — bar pool
Chicago Paul Jones — one pocket and straight pool
Chris Gentile – one pocket and banks
Chris MacDonald — one pocket
Chubby Chino, Chicago Chino — 8 ball
Chuey Rivera — 8 ball
Cletus (Capitol Billiards, Detroit ) — one pocket
Cliff Spotmaster Joyner — one pocket and banks
Clyde Childress — banks

 

[CaliRed]

Doc... does the above several posts count as a STS post?

 

[Frank Almanza]

Wow. I'm starting to lose faith in Freddie's list. Where are you Freddie? Legends don't need a beat list, they just need to be on eveybodys lost list.