question for billy I

[gulfportdoc]

John H howe much do you think a sceatch is worth to Dave.

Against a player getting 18 to 4 and the breack. I just want too see what you think and other people think its worth.

This is a good qouistion. And I would like too get some feed back on it. I also have a good Idea for Dcc.

I've never played that way, so I don't have an experienced feel for it; but it seems to me that a scratch not counting could be worth 1 to 3-1/2 balls, depending upon the type of shot on which the player scratched.

The scratch itself not counting is an obvious 1 ball asset. Then there is the big advantage to the opponent of having BIH in the Kitchen. However if there are no balls which the opponent can pocket, that could lessen the advantage quite a bit.

If the handicapped player scores a ball in his pocket, then scratches, that's at least a 2 ball advantage to the opponent. On the other hand if the player makes a tough shot of the OB from a tight, or uptable, position, then spotting the fouled OB on the spot might actually improve the player's position, even though he's penalized in the score. Of course the scratch is a disadvantage to the handicapped player irrespective of whether he owes a ball because of it or not.

Got to get to work. More on this later...

Doc

 

[wincardona]

In case your interested I can raise a corp. that will let Cory play you 19 to 5 for 10K a game, if you're interested.

Billy I.

I apologize to Dippie for making this statement and or challenge. I was under the impression that he had beaten Cory with the game that they are currently playing..17 to 4..I misread a poster and thought that the set was over and Dippie had won. Bad dianosis from the doctor.

Billy I.

 

[Skin]

[This is a question posed by Artie in the Member's Forum, which probably should be in this thread]

John H howe much do you think a sceatch is worth to Dave.

Against a player getting 18 to 4 and the breack. I just want too see what you think and other people think its worth.

This is a good qouistion. And I would like too get some feed back on it. I also have a good Idea for Dcc.

Witch I think will create a lot off action. Curiositie and it will get everyones interest.

A new Idea will allways get peopls attention and thier iterest. It could also be a lemon. But I think it would be worth trying.

I will think about it before I give it out. I think you would like it. But who knowes. Tell people respond.

Wright now I am interested in howe much the free scratch is worth. And everyone can answer. I have a Idea what it is worth. But I would like too her other peopls opinions first.

This is a very good qouistion. We will see what everyone thinks. And I would like for Dennis SJD John Gost Freddy Gulf Port Bily I Cailread Steve and everyone to give thier opinion and input.

And lets do it like the super senior citizens that we are. And the people who have not reached our age yet.

With respect to one another and the site. And show all the members that we can do it Like adults. Without hostility anger and arguing.

Make this a peacefull post. And leave all the anger and frutration at home. And the aswer will help people when they match up.
Reply With Quote

Well, since Doc moved Artie's post over here, I guess I will move my reply also. Did I misunderstand what is meant by a free "scratch"? I don't know how it was awarded as a spot in the Alex/Viffer match.

Artie, if a free scratch means a free foul, I would say its value depends on when and how you use it. I see it as a free shot to get out of a trap or to set one. During some games it wouldn't mean anything but during others it could mean the entire game. It is definitely worth more than the ball you'd have to pay. On the average I would guess it is worth a couple of balls added against a good defensive player if the shooter plays good defense, too.

In the Alex/Dave game, I would say it is probably worth adding 2 or 3 balls to what Alex had to go to, making the game 20/21 to 4. It just about makes the game unwinnable for Alex when Dave gets the opportunity to play it for its maximum value.

Of course, the flip side is that if Dave makes the wrong decision, Alex could use the free foul spot against him by getting into an exchange of fouls and driving up the number of balls Dave would need. Then the spot compounds the liability of a poor decision by Dave. He has to use it to set a trap he can get out of if Alex fouls.

Skin

 

[wincardona]

Free scratch

Free scratch

There's a difference in a free scratch and an intentional foul free scratch. A free scratch means to me that ANY foul does not count, intentional or scratching in the pocket. An intentional free scratch means to me that only intentionals are free. My answer is based only on the intentional free scratch.
I've never played anyone where I gave them, or received an intentional free scratch, so my answer is purely speculation. Playing someone 18 to 4 the free scratch imo is worth to the better player between 1 to 2 balls added to the handicapp. Example..18 to 4 to 19 or 20 to 4. I wouldn't think it is worth any more, but then again I have made a few bad diagnosis in the past.

Billy I.

 

[androd]

I've played a lot of intentional fouls don't count. If someone plays it well, it might be worth 9/7 for the whole game.(Not one shot) It's usually worth less. It might be worth 9/7 counting all fouls, maybe.
Rod.

 

[Skin]

I've played a lot of intentional fouls don't count. If someone plays it well, it might be worth 9/7 for the whole game.(Not one shot) It's usually worth less. It might be worth 9/7 counting all fouls, maybe.
Rod.

Rod, what kind of insane maniac gives ALL intentional fouls don't count?

One. That's all.

Skin

 

[jrhendy]

[This is a question posed by Artie in the Member's Forum, which probably should be in this thread]

John H howe much do you think a sceatch is worth to Dave.

Against a player getting 18 to 4 and the breack. I just want too see what you think and other people think its worth.

Reply With Quote

I think it is hard to pin down depending on the ball layout and what Dave does with it.

It is worth at least one ball and could be as much as two balls. I think the biggest problem for the player giving up the weight is a free scratch can negate a good break by the stronger player and giving up that kind of weight you need to win the games you are breaking for sure.

 

[wincardona]

I've played a lot of intentional fouls don't count. If someone plays it well, it might be worth 9/7 for the whole game.(Not one shot) It's usually worth less. It might be worth 9/7 counting all fouls, maybe.
Rod.

Thank's Rod, coming from you, a player that is familiar with the prop is creditable information. I believe that Jack Cooney mentioned something similiar years ago, I don't remember exactly what it was but I think it was around 8/7 or a little more. So i'm assuming my guess on 19 or 20 to 4 wouldn't be far off. Thanks, once again.

Billy I.

 

[androd]

Thank's Rod, coming from you, a player that is familiar with the prop is creditable information. I believe that Jack Cooney mentioned something similiar years ago, I don't remember exactly what it was but I think it was around 8/7 or a little more. So i'm assuming my guess on 19 or 20 to 4 wouldn't be far off. Thanks, once again.

Billy I.

Yeah that's about right 8/7 or a little more. Remember these strengths are based on both players going to 8 balls, so going to fewer changes it a bit.
Rod.

I think the biggest problem for the player giving up the weight is a free scratch can negate a good break by the stronger player and giving up that kind of weight you need to win the games you are breaking for sure.

PS, All the intentional fouls after the break will not move any balls away from the breakers pocket. I usually tried to match up getting the break (if possible) when giving up scratches don't count. I would play without it.

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Thank's Rod, coming from you, a player that is familiar with the prop is creditable information. I believe that Jack Cooney mentioned something similiar years ago, I don't remember exactly what it was but I think it was around 8/7 or a little more. So i'm assuming my guess on 19 or 20 to 4 wouldn't be far off. Thanks, once again.

Billy I.[/QUOTE
I hope I can Reply on this. If I cant then just take it off or scratch it. I ho what the scratch is worth.

And the value of what they scratch is realy worth. THe true value is determind before the game starts. Not once the game starts.

Now that we have established that. WE can come up with a correct value or handycap. I will not give the answer wright away.

Because I want to hir responses and everyones opinion. WE no that the scratch during the game is worth different prices. According too the positions off the balls and score.

Just like if you need one ball going too 4 and if you would scratch you would need two. thats a big difference.

If your scratches dont count or you have a free scratch and the player followes the game ball in the pocket is the game over or do you spot the ball.

Thier are losts off new rules to be made up before you play scratches dont count. If the player going too 4 makes his game ball and scratches does he win the game? or do you spot the ball.

Because if his scratches dont count then he should get credit for the ball. Thier can be a lot off technacalities. Are thier rules out thier on scratches dont count?

Because it is a proposition game. And I also said it would be great too have a 6 by 12 pool table at the DCC Too create action and interest.

And wouldnt it be great too watch Scoot Frost play Eferine one pocket on a 6 by 12 pool table? And it would be a great coversation peace.

Lets her everyones opinion on what one Scratch is worth playing a player 18 to 4 and the breack?????????? THe closist person too the correct answer gets a free cigar.

And it doesnt cost you anything to answer.. Just give your opinion you might have the correct answer over all the experts.

Freddy I would like too her your answer too. This is a legitement Qouistion. And thier is a correct answer. Believe it or not. Freddy might get it because he knowes a little howe I think.

 

[gulfportdoc]

Well, since Doc moved Artie's post over here, I guess I will move my reply also. Did I misunderstand what is meant by a free "scratch"? I don't know how it was awarded as a spot in the Alex/Viffer match.

Artie, if a free scratch means a free foul, I would say its value depends on when and how you use it. I see it as a free shot to get out of a trap or to set one. During some games it wouldn't mean anything but during others it could mean the entire game. It is definitely worth more than the ball you'd have to pay. On the average I would guess it is worth a couple of balls added against a good defensive player if the shooter plays good defense, too.

In the Alex/Dave game, I would say it is probably worth adding 2 or 3 balls to what Alex had to go to, making the game 20/21 to 4. It just about makes the game unwinnable for Alex when Dave gets the opportunity to play it for its maximum value.

Of course, the flip side is that if Dave makes the wrong decision, Alex could use the free foul spot against him by getting into an exchange of fouls and driving up the number of balls Dave would need. Then the spot compounds the liability of a poor decision by Dave. He has to use it to set a trap he can get out of if Alex fouls.

Those are good points, Skin. I assumed Artie was originally referring to 1 free CB pocket scratch. A "scratch" means the CB goes into a pocket. A "foul" or "table scratch" are what describes other CB fouls.

Giving a player a free "scratch" would be much different from giving a free "intentional foul". Giving a player all fouls free would indicate a death wish. Although I imagine a top player could give a beginner that spot. Dunno...

Doc

 

[wincardona]

Those are good points, Skin. I assumed Artie was originally referring to 1 free CB pocket scratch. A "scratch" means the CB goes into a pocket. A "foul" or "table scratch" are what describes other CB fouls.

Giving a player a free "scratch" would be much different from giving a free "intentional foul". Giving a player all fouls free would indicate a death wish. Although I imagine a top player could give a beginner that spot. Dunno...

Doc

Doc, I believe the way the game was played is that Dippie must call his free scratch before he shoots. I also heard that Cory beat Dippie the set that they were playing, race to 7 Dippie getting 17 to 4 but no free scratch.

Billy I.

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Those are good points, Skin. I assumed Artie was originally referring to 1 free CB pocket scratch. A "scratch" means the CB goes into a pocket. A "foul" or "table scratch" are what describes other CB fouls.

Giving a player a free "scratch" would be much different from giving a free "intentional foul". Giving a player all fouls free would indicate a death wish. Although I imagine a top player could give a beginner that spot. Dunno...

Doc

Firet thanks for moving my postIt was not done intentaly.Isent a foul or a scratch the same thing> And it costs you a ball.

Weather you foul the cue ball or scratch in the pocket. It costs you a ball. And you are correct that if a player doesnt use the intentanale foul or scratch.

It is worth zero. And free intentanale scratches mean way more to a week player. Playing a player who is average. To a great player it does not mean that much.

Just like a great player getting it against another great player it means way more the free scratch. But if a weak player gives a great player. His scratches dont count. It will be a joke.

THe week player might not get a ball. And if both players are shooting at the game ball. Its very important. Because you can put the great player in a trap.

I will give you one example.Its the week players shot and the cue ball is on the bottom rail. By the week players pocket.

The game ball ison the center off the table. Behind the head string. And the week player takes his scratch and shoots the cue ball in the pocket.

And the great player has to kick at the ball behind the string. Witch will make they sdore the great player needind rwo balls.

And has the first scratch. And if all his scratches dont count then the week player shoots the ball on the spot to the back off the string and if the great player does not have a shot too move the ball out off the kitchen.

Then he can shoot the cue ball in the pocket again. And the great player has another kick shot. And this can keep going on tell the week player gets a shot too win.

THier are many tricks and things to no. But taking scratches all the time does not help your ball position. Especialy when the good player keeps puting balls by his pocket.

And the other player has to move the ball. And if he takes a intentinal scrstch the great player can make his position even better. By putting another ball by his pocket.

And remember the great player can but you in a trap too. Were you cant get out.

And a great player will get out off your trap easier than you will getting out off his trap. Thats why you are getting 18 to 4 and the breack and a free scratch.

It is much harder too to figure out what a free scratch is worth? During the game then in the begining off the game.

Because off the positions off the balls. And the score that changed. Just like in football game once the score changes and time has been run off the clock.

All the prices change. And the position were the football is and who has the ball Favorite or Dog. But I need some moore replies on what the free scratch or foul is worth.
And whatever your answer is will help. And giving your opinion and feed back is also great.

And I hope that everone can learn from this qouistion that was asked. Even Before I replied on the qouistion. And its a very good qouistion. Because it does not come up a lot.

I have one more qouistion? And I guess I will ask about the qouistion on this tread. What happines in the Hall off Fame Voting if thier is a tie or even a four way tie??????? Witch does not figure too happen.

But nothing is imposable. This is the time off the year for people too share. And show everyone that they count. And have made a difference and rise above themselves.

THanks again for moveing my post. Some one called me and explained it too me. And said the best thing is next time I should start my own Tread. It makes sense and once you no its easy.

I havant had any replies on a 6 by 12 pool table. I guess its not much off a Idea. But I thought it was something different and people would like too see what its like too play on a six by 12 pool table?

I put it out thier anyway. Because its somthing different.

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Doc, I believe the way the game was played is that Dippie must call his free scratch before he shoots. I also heard that Cory beat Dippie the set that they were playing, race to 7 Dippie getting 17 to 4 but no free scratch.

Billy I.

Dave is was getting one free scratch a game.And a scratch should cost him a ball or any player who scratches.

The cue ball foul is what I asked what happines if he follows in Scotts game ball. And he gets a free foul.

Does Scott win the game? Because if Daves scratch doesnt count and thats Scotts game ball. Scott should win.

Just LIke if Dave makes his game ball and scratches. Dave should win. And If Dave scratches or fouls does his free foul or scratch count on the first Foul or scratch off the game?

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Dave is was getting one free scratch a game.And a scratch should cost him a ball or any player who scratches.

The cue ball foul is what I asked what happines if he follows in Scotts game ball. And he gets a free foul.

Does Scott win the game? Because if Daves scratch doesnt count and thats Scotts game ball. Scott should win.

Just LIke if Dave makes his game ball and scratches. Dave should win. And If Dave scratches or fouls does his free foul or scratch count on the first Foul or scratch off the game?

If he has too call his free foul before he shoots thats not a free foul. Thats a stipulated foul. And then the qouistion comes up what can he do with his foul.

A scratch or a foul cost you a ball playing one pocket.in a regular game Is that correct? And If they are playing three fouls or scratches in a row you loose the game? And a foul or a scratch cost the player a ball. Is that Correct or not?

Is a foul or a scratch the same thing and the same penalty?

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

There's a difference in a free scratch and an intentional foul free scratch. A free scratch means to me that ANY foul does not count, intentional or scratching in the pocket. An intentional free scratch means to me that only intentionals are free. My answer is based only on the intentional free scratch.
I've never played anyone where I gave them, or received an intentional free scratch, so my answer is purely speculation. Playing someone 18 to 4 the free scratch imo is worth to the better player between 1 to 2 balls added to the handicapp. Example..18 to 4 to 19 or 20 to 4. I wouldn't think it is worth any more, but then again I have made a few bad diagnosis in the past.

Billy I.

Howe do you decide what is a free scratch or intentanal scratch. When they are both a foul. And would cost a player a ball. If the scratch is free that means too me that I can do whatever I want with my free scratch is that correct. .

A free scratch witch is free seems too be the same thing as a Intentanal scratch. Since they are both free. And I persum they dont have a ref in the game?

 

[iusedtoberich]

I'm going to take the opposite stance and say that Dippy's one free scratch per game is worth almost nothing, maybe a 1/4 ball at best.


I'm a weak player (C+/B-) and I've played the free scratch game a couple times. When I played it, I had a free scratch every time I had a shot, for the entire game. I played this against a much stronger opponent, who normally gave me 12-7 or so.

The scratches didn't help me. They got me out of trouble temporarily, but they didn't take balls away from his side, etc. They were passive moves to just delay the inevitable, when one opponent is much stronger than the other.

In Dippy's case, he is clearly overpowered by a mile. His scratch is just going to buy one inning of time. I don't think that means anything considering the vast difference in skill of his current choice of opponents.

 

[Viffer]

I caculate my intential scratch is worth 2=+ balls. I know the game better then most people i play i out move themm, not all but most so it makes scratch worth alot.




billy corey beat me 17-4 once again i played and bet all i could and lost,,


the alex i played on virginia wasnt the same one i played in vegas,

yes i beat gabe, but he is the butttom of barrel or players, scott correy alex all better, or harder for me to beat cause then run balls so good

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

I think it is hard to pin down depending on the ball layout and what Dave does with it.

It is worth at least one ball and could be as much as two balls. I think the biggest problem for the player giving up the weight is a free scratch can negate a good break by the stronger player and giving up that kind of weight you need to win the games you are breaking for sure.

John Thanks for your honesty and replying. And what you are saying that getting a free scratch could get him out off the breack.

And you are also correct by saying that the positions off the balls are important and come into play.

What I am saying I dont no how else too put it. If my wording and grammer would be better. It would clarifie what I am saying.

What I am asking is what is the scratch worth before the game starts? With everything being the same every game. And the balls are all together. They are not brocken up yet. And every game will be the same begining.

And every fresh game starts 18 to 4 and I think Dave is getting the brack too and a free scratch. And I am talking about Dave getting all the breacks. What is the scratch worth?

 

[u12armresl]

I've seen a no scratches game given by one the best players in the state to a D level player. They agreed on the bet and each time the guy who got no count scratches came up, he would grab the cue ball with his hand and corner hook the other guy in his own hole. They prearranged a set at a price so the other guy couldn't get out of it, and he was such a nice guy, most people would have probably fought over that.