14 and 1, player rankings

[Ross Keith Thompson]

In 1970 the best group of nine ball players were as follows. Greg Stevens, Billy Johnson, Lassiter, Incardona, Buddy Hall, Ed Kelly! You could arguably throw Tall Jeff, Ritchie Florence, Jersey Red, Ronnie Allen and Mataya in the first group. Second tier would start with Cole Dickson, Rempe, Myself, One Eyed Tony, Hippy Jimmy, Eddie Burton and so on.

My 14 and 1 days were as follows, played a kid from back east some 50 dollar 14 and 1 to a 100. Played 2 games with him on a 9 ft. gold crown with 4.5" pockets. Ran 84 the first game and 96 the 2nd game.

Played 2 sessions in Johnston City tournament in 1970 against Ronnie Allen and lassiter to 125. Ran 68 against Ronnie and 65 against Lassiter. My only time of running 100 plus balls was in Houston on a gold crown table.

I actually practiced 14 and 1 one evening as Dotti Breit watched and after running a few racks I quit. Dotti asked why I quit, she was counting and said I was at 106. I would have never known.

I never would have made a name for myself playing 14 and 1 but I could play the game.

I believe that having the capability of running a hundred balls on any table was a good measuring stick for any player. If you couldn't run a hundred balls, you surely didn't want to hit on anybody to play in the back rooms of Johnston City.

There were players that ran 200 or 300 plus balls and they were trying to do this maybe to pad their resume so to speak. The same people that did this wouldn't play Cardona or Tall Jeff even nine ball, GO FIGURE. I didn't want to play them either, LOL.

There was quite a few players back in the day that were capable of running a hundred plus. I will name them if forced to, but take my word for it, I'm a bad Liar.

IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT

 

[bstroud]

You missed Toby Sweet.

During that era he gave Billy Johnson the 8 ball on his home table and beat him.

I think he was the best 9 ball player I ever played and I played many on your list.

Bill S.

 

[onepockethacker]

You missed Toby Sweet.

During that era he gave Billy Johnson the 8 ball on his home table and beat him.

I think he was the best 9 ball player I ever played and I played many on your list.

Bill S.

Toby had the closest cue ball I have ever seen

 

[bstroud]

Hacker,

I thought the same thing.

He also played the best push out of anyone I have ever seen.

Bill S.

 

[Jeff sparks]

Where did Toby call home?

 

[jrhendy]

You missed Toby Sweet.

During that era he gave Billy Johnson the 8 ball on his home table and beat him.

I think he was the best 9 ball player I ever played and I played many on your list.

Bill S.

I played Toby around 1990 at Hard Times in Bellflower. We played short races for $500 a set. He was with Cuban Joe so I knew he could play, just did not know who he was.

I was running pretty good in the liability snooker & golf games on Big Bertha and I was playing pretty good nine ball too, so I would fire at anybody when I felt like playing. We played one foul ball in hand (Tournament rules at the time) and I won the first set. He talked me into playing shoot out the next set and I got robbed. There was not a third set since I could clearly see he was a much, much better player than me.

 

[androd]

Where did Toby call home?

When he came to LeCue he didn't beat anyone. Wet tables probably got him.
Tall Jimmy, James Christopher, Duke Dowell, Jack Terry.

Everyone said he'd beaten every one along the East Coast.

I've told the story before, I took him to Texas City waterfront, he looked perfect. Bell bottom jeans, pea coat, we won $800. He asked if I wanted in back at LeCue, I passed. He lost again.
Rod.

 

[Fast Lenny]

I heard in NY you could go into those old time rooms back in the day and there were a dozen guys who could run a 100 balls in 14.1. I guess if its the popular game then there were people mastering it which is why there are dozens of guys in certain poolrooms that run 8 and out playing one hole.

 

[bstroud]

One of the great treats at the Stardust tournaments was Mike Eufemia.

When he went into the practice room all the good players would follow him.

Almost every day during the tournament he would run 300 or so on the practice table.

In the tournament he never played well.

Bill S.

 

[petie]

In 1970 the best group of nine ball players were as follows. Greg Stevens, Billy Johnson, Lassiter, Incardona, Buddy Hall, Ed Kelly! You could arguably throw Tall Jeff, Ritchie Florence, Jersey Red, Ronnie Allen and Mataya in the first group. Second tier would start with Cole Dickson, Rempe, Myself, One Eyed Tony, Hippy Jimmy, Eddie Burton and so on.

My 14 and 1 days were as follows, played a kid from back east some 50 dollar 14 and 1 to a 100. Played 2 games with him on a 9 ft. gold crown with 4.5" pockets. Ran 84 the first game and 96 the 2nd game.

Played 2 sessions in Johnston City tournament in 1970 against Ronnie Allen and lassiter to 125. Ran 68 against Ronnie and 65 against Lassiter. My only time of running 100 plus balls was in Houston on a gold crown table.

I actually practiced 14 and 1 one evening as Dotti Breit watched and after running a few racks I quit. Dotti asked why I quit, she was counting and said I was at 106. I would have never known.

I never would have made a name for myself playing 14 and 1 but I could play the game.

I believe that having the capability of running a hundred balls on any table was a good measuring stick for any player. If you couldn't run a hundred balls, you surely didn't want to hit on anybody to play in the back rooms of Johnston City.

There were players that ran 200 or 300 plus balls and they were trying to do this maybe to pad their resume so to speak. The same people that did this wouldn't play Cardona or Tall Jeff even nine ball, GO FIGURE. I didn't want to play them either, LOL.

There was quite a few players back in the day that were capable of running a hundred plus. I will name them if forced to, but take my word for it, I'm a bad Liar.

IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT

Every game has it's own mind set and it's own pressure. How can I beat some straight shooting 9-Ballers at One Pocket? Maybe its a comfort level with certain games.

 

[petie]

Where did Toby call home?

Last March I missed Toby by 20 minutes in a pool hall in North Palm Beach, FL. They said he plays there every day. I wanted to see him because of what Bill Stroud had said about him having the best cue ball of anybody. I was traveling and never got back there but it is on my list for the next time I am near there.

 

[keoneyo]

I heard in NY you could go into those old time rooms back in the day and there were a dozen guys who could run a 100 balls in 14.1. I guess if its the popular game then there were people mastering it which is why there are dozens of guys in certain poolrooms that run 8 and out playing one hole.

Lenny in 1976 I went to New York to study my trade. I had borrowed $1K and was living off of $75 a month. Studying night and day. My one pleasure was to go to Amsterdam Billiards buy a cup of coffee and sit on the rail. I was shocked when I saw guys like Cicero Murphy, Johnny Ervolino, Jack Colavito, Gene Nagy, etc running 100s everyday. Then there was a whole bunch of younger guys like Danny Barouty, Flaco, Rolando Arravena, Jeannette Lee, Ginky, Stu M, John (?), Tony Robles, etc running hundreds everyday.

It was amazing. I was from the west coast where 9 ball and one hole was the main game and to sit amongst these people were just something else. The pockets were for the straight pool game but still these guys played a great strategic game. I think it was an end of an era.

 

[androd]

Lenny in 1976 I went to New York to study my trade. I had borrowed $1K and was living off of $75 a month. Studying night and day. My one pleasure was to go to Amsterdam Billiards buy a cup of coffee and sit on the rail. I was shocked when I saw guys like Cicero Murphy, Johnny Ervolino, Jack Colavito, Gene Nagy, etc running 100s everyday. Then there was a whole bunch of younger guys like Danny Barouty, Flaco, Rolando Arravena, Jeannette Lee, Ginky, Stu M, John (?), Tony Robles, etc running hundreds everyday.

It was amazing. I was from the west coast where 9 ball and one hole was the main game and to sit amongst these people were just something else. The pockets were for the straight pool game but still these guys played a great strategic game. I think it was an end of an era.

My partner was a very good player. We were somewhere and he played a guy 14.1, after the game I asked him how good do you play.
He said "I can beat everyone from Wisconsin and no one from New York"
he went on to say even the cab drivers in New York can run a hundred.
Rod.

 

[bstroud]

When you look at the fact that there were at one time over 500 pool rooms in NYC it makes sense.

Bill S.

 

[petie]

Have any of you guys heard of Bob Myers or Bob the Destroyer. According to Eddie Robin, he might have been the greatest pool player in the world but never left a 4 block area of New York.

 

[beatle]

toby sweet was from nyack or spring valley new york. close to nyc.

bob the destroyer was super good but not great. he played at 7/11 in nyc.

100 ball runners were a dime a dozen. there were many more good players back then than now. you just didnt know them.
you could go in a room and see a bunch of old men sitting around watching that havent played in years and pick up a stick and run a hundred. believe it or not.

heck in one place a top player came in to take off one of the big go offs and we had the janitor play him getting a small spot. he didnt have a chance. and the janitor was like 70 years old.

 

[gulfportdoc]

... bob the destroyer was super good but not great. he played at 7/11 in nyc. ...

Beatle, do you recall precisely where 711 was located in Manhattan? I imagine the name was its address; or maybe its open hours were from 7 A.M. to 11 P.M. Did it have a bowling alley in it as well?

If any other poster knows, please chime in here.

Thanks~ Doc

 

[beatle]

boy doc i aint no time machine but here goes.
7/11 the old paddys poolroom was near 42nd and broadway up stairs. was always open round the clock
migurrs was over near or on 8th ave more uptown.
aimes was on the west side of town between 42 and 44th

there was a room or two every couple of streets it seemed.
gus and dolls was up from 7 11 and was less rough so to speak.
all straight pool shooters there.

the golden cue in queens had lots of action and players. thats where balabuska hung out.

funny part was you had all the suckers playing for 20 and up nine ball or one pocket and hopkins, mizerac, margo, martin, etc playing 150 points of straight pool for ten bucks or less and running out

 

[gulfportdoc]

boy doc i aint no time machine but here goes.
7/11 the old paddys poolroom was near 42nd and broadway up stairs. was always open round the clock
migurrs was over near or on 8th ave more uptown.
aimes was on the west side of town between 42 and 44th
...

Thanks, Beatle. Yeah, I played at Ames' which was on the second floor-- I think on 46th near Bwy; and at McGirr's on 45th, downstairs. But I can't recall if another joint I played at on Bwy near Times Square was 711 or not. If it was upstairs, and had some bowling alleys, then that was it.

I'm sure Helfert remembers, but I'm too lazy to shout him out at AZb.

~Doc

 

[stedyfred]

Pool room at 43rd and Broadway in late 70's, early 80's was the Magic Cue and you did go up several flights of stairs. Nathan's hot dogs was on the corner and movie theater there also; 3 card monte games out front.