Double Hit WPA Rule

[Island Drive]

So whitey and obj. ball CAN travel same speed and be legal ????

6.7 Double Hit / Frozen Balls
If the cue stick contacts the cue ball more than once on a shot, the shot is a foul. If the cue ball is close to but not touching an object ball and the cue tip is still on the cue ball when the cue ball contacts that object ball, the shot is a foul. If the cue ball is very close to an object ball, and the shooter barely grazes that object ball on the shot, the shot is assumed not to violate the first paragraph of this rule, even though the tip is arguably still on the cue ball when ball-ball contact is made.
However, if the cue ball is touching an object ball at the start of the shot, it is legal to shoot towards or partly into that ball (provided it is a legal target within the rules of the game) and if the object ball is moved by such a shot, it is considered to have been contacted by the cue ball. (Even though it may be legal to shoot towards such a touching or “frozen” ball, care must be taken not to violate the rules in the first paragraph if there are additional balls close by.)
The cue ball is assumed not to be touching any ball unless it is declared touching by the referee or opponent. It is the shooter’s responsibility to get the declaration before the shot. Playing away from a frozen ball does not constitute having hit that ball unless specified in the rules of the game.

 

[androd]

Amazing how many people deny this. :frus
Rod.

 

[Island Drive]

Amazing how many people deny this. :frus
Rod.

No, I just stopped playing about ten years ago, and matters have changed, rules keep changing more than my first forty years of play, and to me this Simplifies the situation. I've just never seen it written Cleary where your allowed to take ''a full swing directly into the object ball''. Boy in the rotation games, you could execute quite an impressive mid rack break shot if the conditions are right, done it many times on a bar rag when they weren't frozen. Thanks, just wanted to hear it from someone who's NOT a banger....

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

So whitey and obj. ball CAN travel same speed and be legal ????

6.7 Double Hit / Frozen Balls
If the cue stick contacts the cue ball more than once on a shot, the shot is a foul. If the cue ball is close to but not touching an object ball and the cue tip is still on the cue ball when the cue ball contacts that object ball, the shot is a foul. If the cue ball is very close to an object ball, and the shooter barely grazes that object ball on the shot, the shot is assumed not to violate the first paragraph of this rule, even though the tip is arguably still on the cue ball when ball-ball contact is made.
However, if the cue ball is touching an object ball at the start of the shot, it is legal to shoot towards or partly into that ball (provided it is a legal target within the rules of the game) and if the object ball is moved by such a shot, it is considered to have been contacted by the cue ball. (Even though it may be legal to shoot towards such a touching or “frozen” ball, care must be taken not to violate the rules in the first paragraph if there are additional balls close by.)
The cue ball is assumed not to be touching any ball unless it is declared touching by the referee or opponent. It is the shooter’s responsibility to get the declaration before the shot. Playing away from a frozen ball does not constitute having hit that ball unless specified in the rules of the game.

This is the only way I would play it, but people do gamble otherwise.

Cowboy "just a banger" Dennis

 

[Island Drive]

This is the only way I would play it, but people do gamble otherwise.

Remember, Grady lived here in town for years, and that's they way I first learned it, 71-72, different speeds good hit, same speed PUSH. This simplifies matters, I like it. Dam Matthews he's still buggin me :heh Boy I can just hear em now slammin' those dominos on the thin slate card table, and Gigglin' and crossin' his legs, maybe a banana in one hand.

 

[gulfportdoc]

Bill, here's an interesting slomo video of cueing straight into a cueball frozen to another ball, without a double hit. It also shows the same with english. I don't know how to copy the video into this post. Maybe someone could let me know:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-96.htm

I conceptualize the CB frozen to the OB as sort of like being the CB only. So as long as there's no double hit, you can shoot it anyway you like.

What tickles me is another rule that says as long as you shoot with a masse angle down to a CB that's not quite frozen to an OB, is NOT a double hit, whereas many of them are.

These questions come up all the time. The frozen ball rule puts Jay Helfert into a rage!

Doc

 

[KindlyOleUncleDave]

Frizz .... Jay Helfert

Frizz .... Jay Helfert

Bill, here's an interesting slomo video of cueing straight into a cueball frozen to another ball, without a double hit. It also shows the same with english. I don't know how to copy the video into this post. Maybe someone could let me know:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-96.htm

I conceptualize the CB frozen to the OB as sort of like being the CB only. So as long as there's no double hit, you can shoot it anyway you like.

What tickles me is another rule that says as long as you shoot with a masse angle down to a CB that's not quite frozen to an OB, is NOT a double hit, whereas many of them are.

These questions come up all the time. The frozen ball rule puts Jay Helfert into a rage!

Doc

So lets hear about it Jay .... paaaaaahhhhllleeeeeeeeze !

My two cents; physics being what it are, IF an appropriate distance exists between the cue ball and object ball and IF the CB is accelerated with a proper stroke , the cB will lose velocity on ball contact but will not lose contact with cue tip .... and so there will be no foul: ever. If, of course once took a shit and fell in it ..... so I heard.

The rule seems to have been invented to protect folks who cannot sense when a knife-fight and stabbing are about to occur.

 

[Island Drive]

Bill, here's an interesting slomo video of cueing straight into a cueball frozen to another ball, without a double hit. It also shows the same with english. I don't know how to copy the video into this post. Maybe someone could let me know:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-96.htm

I conceptualize the CB frozen to the OB as sort of like being the CB only. So as long as there's no double hit, you can shoot it anyway you like.

What tickles me is another rule that says as long as you shoot with a masse angle down to a CB that's not quite frozen to an OB, is NOT a double hit, whereas many of them are.

These questions come up all the time. The frozen ball rule puts Jay Helfert into a rage!



Doc

Thx,

I'll just blame it on the professor and pretend his red headed wife/Sandy....is there bitchin' at me while paying off the bad game he made Back then.....she was the den mother of a titty bar in the early seventies a couple blocks from the pool room he owned with Charlie Shootman. Back then the dancers were getting twenty five bucks for a bottle of Andre Champagne from the Fort Carson newbie soldiers going thru training. Ronnie Barber was also here around that time as were Many others. This was Before Stroud moved here.

 

[petie]

Just to emphasize the futility of some of these arguments, what do you think the slomo example actually shows and proves?

 

[petie]

My point here is, and let me say that I have always played that you can shoot in the direction of the OB with one continuous stroke, that I think it could be argued that the slomo clearly shows that the CB was contacted twice by virtue of the two blue chalk marks on the cue ball.