the man who bet on everything ...

[sunnyone]

a forum pal in here sent me a copy of kevin cook’s book on titanic thompson. (neither name -- titanic, nor thompson -- is real. as is befitting his long and short cons. speaking of names -- cook’s book. get it?)

many of you know the titanic mythology: con man, golfer, grifter, pool hustler, proposition gambler. (what exactly is a proposition bet? i’m still a little hazy on that?)

my two favorite titanic cons involved distances. neither revolved around major money; i was simply enchanted with the concepts.

in one, titanic saw a highway crew embedding a mileage sign ... x number of miles to the next town. (perhaps joplin?) of course he moved it and won a bet on the inaccuracy of the highway department.

the second distance distortion was when he built a horseshoe pitching site behind his temporary residence. his target was a world-class horseshoe pitcher. thrower? whatever.

titanic practiced long and hard, because the length was 41 feet, not the standard 40 feet.

and my take-away from the cook book? titanic’s work ethic. from card flipping to coin tossing to shooting golf shot after golf shot from those sand holes, he worked and worked and worked.

now ... a retrospective on any shadowy figure is subject to scrutiny. the author places a heavy emphasis on the pool-shooting ability of minnesota fats. from what i’ve read, there may be some question on that.

one pocket is mentioned. not featured, but paid attention to.

reviewing legends is my life,

sunny

p.s. i enjoyed the book, despite the violence. despite the serial wives. but i came away with one question. how well did titanic really play pool?

 

[NH Steve]

I do not "know" the answer, but I am pretty sure as I have heard it, Titanic was a tremendous all-around athlete, but he could not quite play pool at the top level, which may have been a frustration for him, from what I heard. But whatever the specific missing talent it was, he lacked something that the top pool players had, that enabled them to improve to a higher level than Titanic was ever able to...

 

[SJDinPHX]

a forum pal in here sent me a copy of kevin cook’s book on titanic thompson. (neither name -- titanic, nor thompson -- is real. as is befitting his long and short cons. speaking of names -- cook’s book. get it?)

many of you know the titanic mythology: con man, golfer, grifter, pool hustler, proposition gambler. (what exactly is a proposition bet? i’m still a little hazy on that?)

my two favorite titanic cons involved distances. neither revolved around major money; i was simply enchanted with the concepts.

in one, titanic saw a highway crew embedding a mileage sign ... x number of miles to the next town. (perhaps joplin?) of course he moved it and won a bet on the inaccuracy of the highway department.

the second distance distortion was when he built a horseshoe pitching site behind his temporary residence. his target was a world-class horseshoe pitcher. thrower? whatever.

titanic practiced long and hard, because the length was 41 feet, not the standard 40 feet.

and my take-away from the cook book? titanic’s work ethic. from card flipping to coin tossing to shooting golf shot after golf shot from those sand holes, he worked and worked and worked.

now ... a retrospective on any shadowy figure is subject to scrutiny. the author places a heavy emphasis on the pool-shooting ability of minnesota fats. from what i’ve read, there may be some question on that.

one pocket is mentioned. not featured, but paid attention to.

reviewing legends is my life,

sunny

p.s. i enjoyed the book, despite the violence. despite the serial wives. but i came away with one question. how well did titanic really play pool?

Sunny....for your perusal...http://bankingwiththebeard.com/?p=453#TitanicTales

PS..Right below, there are two interesting stories by my friend Johnny Hughs and another one by me...enjoy..

 

[vapros]

Sunny, when a guy comes into the joint and offers to bet $100 that he can throw a quarter into the slot on the pay phone, from eight feet away, in three tries, that's a proposition bet.

When a guy offers to bet you that he can find at least two people in the place who have the same birthday, that is also a proposition bet. Just for your information, I believe that the cutoff for that one is about thirteen people, and anything over fifteen is a near-sure thing.

Now you know what a proposition bet is. Be well.

 

[petie]

Sunny....for your perusal...http://bankingwiththebeard.com/?p=453#TitanicTales

PS..Right below, there are two interesting stories by my friend Johnny Hughs and another one by me...enjoy..

Dick,
Thank you for a thoroughly entertaining story. I knew a little bit about Ti because I read Fatty's book a couple of times.
I saw Cornbread bet on 3-rail-kicking the 8 ball in from a full rack in the old Hit and Run in Flint, MI in the late 80's or early 90's. He would bet on anything over 16.

 

[fred bentivegna]

I think the number is ....

I think the number is ....

Sunny, when a guy comes into the joint and offers to bet $100 that he can throw a quarter into the slot on the pay phone, from eight feet away, in three tries, that's a proposition bet.

When a guy offers to bet you that he can find at least two people in the place who have the same birthday, that is also a proposition bet. Just for your information, I believe that the cutoff for that one is about thirteen people, and anything over fifteen is a near-sure thing.

Now you know what a proposition bet is. Be well.

....twenty-six. I could be wrong of course, but that number sticks in my brain.
Been 25 yrs since I thought about that. Read about it originally in John Scarne's book, Scarne on Gambling. Plenty of propositions in there.

Beard

 

[androd]

....twenty-six. I could be wrong of course, but that number sticks in my brain.
Been 25 yrs since I thought about that. Read about it originally in John Scarne's book, Scarne on Gambling. Plenty of propositions in there.

Beard

26 people is likely correct. Ty told me 30 people was the absolute nuts.
Rod.
P.S.. With 365 days, it still is unexplainable.

 

[SJDinPHX]

Sunny, when a guy comes into the joint and offers to bet $100 that he can throw a quarter into the slot on the pay phone, from eight feet away, in three tries, that's a proposition bet.

When a guy offers to bet you that he can find at least two people in the place who have the same birthday, that is also a proposition bet. Just for your information, I believe that the cutoff for that one is about thirteen people, and anything over fifteen is a near-sure thing.

Now you know what a proposition bet is. Be well.

V-man...13 would be very risky I would think...I was taught the number is more like 30 to have almost the nuts. Even 25 can be dicey. And make sure you clarify its only the day and month, and not the year.

 

[vapros]

Mea culpa. Mea can't remember very well anymore, and I am 'honte' about this proposition. The correct answer is 23 people, and when you have 30 bodies on hand, the probability is 70%. Thank you Freddie, and yes - this is from John Scarne's very helpful book.

 

[RedCard]

Birthday

Birthday

Scarne's book (p.661-2) says at 34 people in the room the odds were 4-1 in his favor. It changes between 22 and 23 people. At 23 the odds are 1¼% in your favor if you are offering the bet. With 40 people in the room you have 8-1 the best of it.

You have to phrase it to reflect that (any) two people in the room have the same birthday. If you make the mistake of saying at least one other person has the same birthday as another specific person (like yourself) you are taking way the worst of it.

 

[SJDinPHX]

Scarne's book (p.661-2) says at 34 people in the room the odds were 4-1 in his favor. It changes between 22 and 23 people. At 23 the odds are 1¼% in your favor if you are offering the bet. With 40 people in the room you have 8-1 the best of it.

You have to phrase it to reflect that (any) two people in the room have the same birthday. If you make the mistake of saying at least one other person has the same birthday as another specific person (like yourself) you are taking way the worst of it.

Thanks for the exact numbers Red Card...I guess I have been fortunate in that I have only pulled this off 5/6 times for decent money,(at 30 people) and I can only recall losing once...(this does not reflect the times I was smashed and trying to impress some bimbo)

PS...Its a lot of work, and I would also caution you to make sure to ask for only the day/month...especially of women who have large drunk boyfriends..

 

[RedCard]

Thanks for the exact numbers Red Card...I guess I have been fortunate in that I have only pulled this off 5/6 times for decent money,(at 30 people) and I can only recall losing once...(this does not reflect the times I was smashed and trying to impress some bimbo)

PS...Its a lot of work, and I would also caution you to make sure to ask for only the day/month...especially of women who have large drunk boyfriends..

I've never won any money on that but have on some of the other proposition bets he mentions. Scarne puts a lot of the math used to calculate the odds on the birthday bet in those two pages, nearest I can figure it is just to confuse good men. I used that book for a book report in high school to keep from having to read something else. I don't think that teacher ever looked at me the same again. At 17 I had read most of his books including his autobiography and had become convinced he was an egomaniacal knocker. I embarked on a mission to remove all copies of his books from the local libraries.

A friend of mine had seen him do some of the things he claimed he could do with cards and dice and told me that despite my opinion of him he was the real thing and could and did do the things he said he did.

 

[androd]

I've never won any money on that but have on some of the other proposition bets he mentions. Scarne puts a lot of the math used to calculate the odds on the birthday bet in those two pages, nearest I can figure it is just to confuse good men. I used that book for a book report in high school to keep from having to read something else. I don't think that teacher ever looked at me the same again. At 17 I had read most of his books including his autobiography and had become convinced he was an egomaniacal knocker. I embarked on a mission to remove all copies of his books from the local libraries.

A friend of mine had seen him do some of the things he claimed he could do with cards and dice and told me that despite my opinion of him he was the real thing and could and did do the things he said he did.

Yeah probably on the bed or at the kitchen table. Not enough nerve for the real thing.
Good blackjack theory though.
Rod.

 

[RedCard]

Yeah probably on the bed or at the kitchen table. Not enough nerve for the real thing.
Good blackjack theory though.
Rod.

I always had the impression that he left a lot of horrible beatings out of his account of himself.

 

[vapros]

Red Card, I can't believe anybody would be low enough to do something like that. Glad we are not talking about pool here.

 

[Scrzbill]

Setting up situations where you chance of losing any money is practically nil is not gambling. It is being a con. Why is being a con artist considered to be a worthy profession? To me it's no different than sneaking into someone's house at night and taking their possessions. Stealing is stealing. Is this a thread of being a better one pocket players or glorifying dishonesty? There is no justification for stealing from others, whether you do it by tricks or with a gun.

 

[vapros]

A word to the wise, Sczrbill - you're stepping on a lot of toes here. Maybe you don't care, but then again, maybe you do.

 

[petie]

Setting up situations where you chance of losing any money is practically nil is not gambling. It is being a con. Why is being a con artist considered to be a worthy profession? To me it's no different than sneaking into someone's house at night and taking their possessions. Stealing is stealing. Is this a thread of being a better one pocket players or glorifying dishonesty? There is no justification for stealing from others, whether you do it by tricks or with a gun.

At the heart of most cons and the thing that makes them successful are the larcenous intentions of the mark which are used by the con like the cowboy uses the strength of the bull to bulldog him.

 

[Scrzbill]

At the heart of most cons and the thing that makes them successful are the larcenous intentions of the mark which are used by the con like the cowboy uses the strength of the bull to bulldog him.

In many cases I would agree.
Not every con is on larcenous victims.
But that somehow excuses it? I don't think so. Cowboys and cattle are different than people.
I know some of the more "respected" con artist in the pool business and I have more respect for cockroaches. When lying and cheating are the norms, then the norms are wrong. Rationalization is not justification. Some people think the Sopranos are good role models, I diasgree.

 

[Scrzbill]

A word to the wise, Sczrbill - you're stepping on a lot of toes here. Maybe you don't care, but then again, maybe you do.

What would be the point of my post if I did not say what I thought? Because it's an unpopular statement doesnt change the truth of it. There are plenty of times I have kept quiet not to ruffle feathers or not posted something to keep the peace, but if there is a black mark associated with pool, it's pool players are nothing more than thieves and crooks. Not everyone lives by that motto. I don't and won't.