Your Thoughts

one pocket guy

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2012
Messages
4,700
From
Arkansas (near Memphis Tn)
I was just watching a former poolroom owner playing Dennis O 12/11-5.
A situation came up when I thought he should of taken a foul to get out of a trap Dennis had him in. I have never faced a Monster like that before so I was wondering. Should a weak player take fouls to try to better his position. Or should he feel he’s never gonna out move the Monster and just try to shoot his way out?
 

one pocket guy

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2012
Messages
4,700
From
Arkansas (near Memphis Tn)
Here’s the spot. Notice he has 3 balls near his hole and Dennis is putting him there. Do you think like I did that he should have tapped the cue ball to protect his good position?
 

Attachments

  • 0985C8E0-4BF9-43D1-A8F3-EA3AF8D94607.jpg
    0985C8E0-4BF9-43D1-A8F3-EA3AF8D94607.jpg
    46.4 KB · Views: 0

lll

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
17,652
From
vero beach fl
in general
it has been discussed here that weaker players getting bigger spots should not take intentionals with the idea that each ball extra is a higher percentage increase in his total compared to the better player needing one more
that being said in this situation
i am looking forward to the more experienced players opinion
 

one pocket guy

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2012
Messages
4,700
From
Arkansas (near Memphis Tn)
Yeah Larry I’ve heard that too,but wasn’t sure how true it was.
Now I misspoke in my first post. Jeff wasn’t in a TRAP at all but he tried to shoot out of instead of tapping and let Dennis out of the trap. But after all Was Dennis the Monster ever ina trap to begin with?
 

NH Steve

Administrator
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
10,722
From
New Hampshire
Here’s the spot. Notice he has 3 balls near his hole and Dennis is putting him there. Do you think like I did that he should have tapped the cue ball to protect his good position?

To be clear, are those three balls by Dennis's pocket or the guy getting spotted?
If it's the guy getting spotted can't he just do something simple off the 8-ball -- I mean he is only hooked on his own balls, he's got plenty of options if those three are by his pocket.

If they are by Dennis's pocket, that's a much tougher situation and unfortunately for the guy getting spotted it is not going to get better -- even if he takes an intentional. It might be one of those rare times to play safe against the wrong side of the stack. But nothing looks good to me if DO is the one with all those balls by his hole.
 

one pocket guy

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2012
Messages
4,700
From
Arkansas (near Memphis Tn)
Yes Steve they were by the spotted player. Now when it was the weaker players shot. Right after Dennis finishes bump the cue ball. Jeff couldn’t see the 8. He was hooked on everything. That’s the point of my question. Should he have tapped and left Dennis there?
 

OneRock

Verified Member
Joined
May 25, 2015
Messages
1,433
From
South Florida
How exactly is he going to improve his position by tapping the CB? Dennis would tap it back, and the incoming player would still be in the same bad position, and worse.

I was just watching a former poolroom owner playing Dennis O 12/11-5.
A situation came up when I thought he should of taken a foul to get out of a trap Dennis had him in. I have never faced a Monster like that before so I was wondering. Should a weak player take fouls to try to better his position. Or should he feel he’s never gonna out move the Monster and just try to shoot his way out?
 

El Chapo

Verified Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2016
Messages
1,615
It would all depend on how many balls you think you can get (or save) relative to not taking a foul.

But yes, it’s fairly established that 2 or 3 fouls or more for a top player can literally mean nothing (he can just run them in his final inning). For a lower player two or three fouls can equate to two or three extra offensive opportunities needed. Also, the top player is going to give up fewer shots of course.

I think the best thing a weaker player can do against a monster is shoot and try to get the game over with. Shoot with safeties in mind of course but try to get balls in your hole as opposed to prolonged moving. If you think about it the more play there is in a game of one hole the more the balls are going to be maneuvered into stronger positions for the top player, and the more free shots he’s going to have at his hole.

You can think of playing a top player like rolling a die and needing to and roll a 3. Your odds are bad, but they get worse the more you roll. If you have to roll a 3 just once you have a much better chance. This is why I think the weaker player needs to shoot early for his best chance, as was asked.
 
Last edited:

androd

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
7,542
From
New Braunfels tx.
Should a weak player take fouls to try to better his position.

Nope, hardley ever if at all.
I played Cliff Joiner many times (with a large spot ) he took dozens, I never took one.
Every scratch he takes, he has to make less than 10% more balls, Every scratch you take you have to make 20 + % more balls.
 

darmoose

Verified Member
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
2,351
From
Baltimore, MD
How exactly is he going to improve his position by tapping the CB? Dennis would tap it back, and the incoming player would still be in the same bad position, and worse.

True enough, but at that point dennis is on two fouls. Jeff would need to tap the CB once again, and force dennis to now go to a rail

I have commented on this before as a bad rule as it allows Dennis to change the game from 12/5 to 14/7.
 

Cory in dc

Verified Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2012
Messages
1,642
Here’s the spot. Notice he has 3 balls near his hole and Dennis is putting him there. Do you think like I did that he should have tapped the cue ball to protect his good position?

It sure looks like he could use the 8. If it's there, go off the 8 and into the stack with a bit of draw or even a very slight masse. If that's not available, then send the cue ball off the 8, to the long rail, and into the stack.

To answer the actual question, I lean more aggressive if I'm playing someone who can give me 10-6 (the highest I've ever gone). But from that position, I'd foul against anyone in the world if doing so were the only way to protect that strong position.
 

jrhendy

Verified Member
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
5,331
From
Placerville, CA
A few years back I played Scott Frost (Twice) 10/5 and lost. Now I am no champion, but I understand the game and can play a little.

Scott takes a scratch and puts me in a spot where I also have to take one. Now I am playing 12/7, not near as good a game.

The top players like Scott run so many balls to go along with their moving that IMO you have to get a big ball spot and the break to have a chance.
 

El Chapo

Verified Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2016
Messages
1,615
A few years back I played Scott Frost (Twice) 10/5 and lost. Now I am no champion, but I understand the game and can play a little.

Scott takes a scratch and puts me in a spot where I also have to take one. Now I am playing 12/7, not near as good a game.

The top players like Scott run so many balls to go along with their moving that IMO you have to get a big ball spot and the break to have a chance.

Right. I haven’t seen a lot of his games where he’s spotting a lot, but I’d bet he has a strategy to even take intentionals when he clearly would not normally when he’s giving up a lot of weight. As you say the higher that ball count gets jacked up for each player, the better his chances for sure.
 

one pocket guy

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2012
Messages
4,700
From
Arkansas (near Memphis Tn)
Thanks for the info guys. I see the logic and somewhat agree. Well if you want to know what happened in this situation. He did as you guys suggest and thinned the ball he was stuck on but he let Dennis see a ball to clear em out somehow I don’t remember exactly which one. But it was a shot anyone of us could clear em~T
 

LSJohn

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
8,488
From
monett missouri
Yes Steve they were by the spotted player. Now when it was the weaker players shot. Right after Dennis finishes bump the cue ball. Jeff couldn’t see the 8. He was hooked on everything. That’s the point of my question. Should he have tapped and left Dennis there?

If I'm visualizing this correctly, with the shot we're seeing Dennis prepare, he put the CB where the 9 was the only ball Jeff could hit. If that was the case, tapping back was the best of bad options because I think all else would sell out cross-banks.
 

frmn

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
160
If you are going to play a monster with a big spot make their fouls worth 2 owed balls. That should change the dynamic a little bit.
 

LSJohn

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
8,488
From
monett missouri
If you are going to play a monster with a big spot make their fouls worth 2 owed balls. That should change the dynamic a little bit.

Excellent if you can get it. Second-best to that would be 2 consecutive by him = loss of game.
 
Top