Who was the most overrated player ever?

wincardona

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Who was the most overrated player you ever saw play?

I don't think you're going to get much "positive" action on this thread.

But I believe that Dennis has an opinion on this one, and actually I would be interested in hearing what he has to say.:) [SIZE="2"[SIZE="2"]]Freddie may even chime in, could be the right opening that he's been waiting for. Then you know who's following Freddies post. You never can tell any more...what is gonna happen.:D

Dr. Bill
 

WillieNilly

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Im possibly putting my foot in my mouth.:sorry
Im going with Fats, He still has people to this day who have only heard of him or dont know pool 101 that believe he was the best player ever.
Not saying he was a bad player or underestimating his ability , That would be downright ignorance of me to say.

it could be hes both the most overrated and underestimated player ever, possibly?:confused:

Davenport? I think kims mid late 80s/ early 90s 9ball game was on par with the pros of his day.

A freind once said of my game "i dont know if your the best bad player ive ever seen or the worst good player":eek:

someday i may be at the top of this list.:D
 

fred bentivegna

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Sorry..

Sorry..

I don't think you're going to get much "positive" action on this thread.

But I believe that Dennis has an opinion on this one, and actually I would be interested in hearing what he has to say.:) [SIZE="2"[SIZE="2"]]Freddie may even chime in, could be the right opening that he's been waiting for. Then you know who's following Freddies post. You never can tell any more...what is gonna happen.:D

Dr. Bill


..I really cant think of any players that were overrated. I have seen many players who were overrated in particular games, tho.

Beard
 

wincardona

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Mosconi, hands down. If every shot hadn't been straight in, he probably couldn't have run 50 balls. :p
Rod.

You're looking for a battle saying that the man (Mosconi) Artie say's could be the best ever, is your pic for the most over-rated.

Dr. Bill
 

SJDinPHX

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I know..I know !!!.....

I know..I know !!!.....

The most overated player,...beyond a shadow of doubt..unequivacably IS .........................................I just can't bring myself to say the say the name(s)...( actually, its almost a tie)...:rolleyes:
 
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tylerdurden

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Artie.

No no!! Kidding. Really. Like truly.

If SJD would actually get some press one day, i'd vote for him. Wait, didn't he just get inducted :p

Ha, everyone know I love the Duck's game.

My honest to god answer is Efren. How much better was he than Parica, or Buddy or Worst etc.... maybe 1 or 2% better at best?? But, when he gets talked about, it is like he is the holy highness of pooldom. So, sticking to my thought about % better. If you had to say how much better, percentage wise, Efren played than the other greats, then listen to how they get talked about relative to him, there is quite the discord there. That is my answer and i'm sticking to it.
 

BackPocket9Ball

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Artie.

No no!! Kidding. Really. Like truly.

If SJD would actually get some press one day, i'd vote for him. Wait, didn't he just get inducted :p

Ha, everyone know I love the Duck's game.

My honest to god answer is Efren. How much better was he than Parica, or Buddy or Worst etc.... maybe 1 or 2% better at best?? But, when he gets talked about, it is like he is the holy highness of pooldom. So, sticking to my thought about % better. If you had to say how much better, percentage wise, Efren played than the other greats, then listen to how they get talked about relative to him, there is quite the discord there. That is my answer and i'm sticking to it.

I don't believe that Efren played better 9-ball than Buddy or Earl or Parica or Varner, and several others -- and these are just players from his generation (not talking including Worst or Lassiter or Van Boening ...).

He certainly didn't play the best straight pool or banks. Now, one pocket is a different story.

But as an all-around player, including 3-cushion and rotation, I don't know if you can argue that Efren is over-rated. I think he is rated appropriately ... as the best ever.
 

Cary

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Mosconi, hands down. If every shot hadn't been straight in, he probably couldn't have run 50 balls. :p
Rod.

Agreed. I watched him several times and not once did he make a ball I couldn't make. He never shot any hard shots. :rolleyes:
 

onepockethacker

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Agreed. I watched him several times and not once did he make a ball I couldn't make. He never shot any hard shots. :rolleyes:

LMFAO quick story. 15 year ago i was going to a Florida Tour event and some league players from the poolhall were going to watch. I told them forget everyone else just watch Buddy Hall play and you will learn alot, hes the best. Buddy wins the tournament. The next week at the poolhall the league players that went to watch were talking about the tournament. I went up to them and told them see guys, i told you Buddy was the guy to watch... 1 of the guys ( and i still laugh my ass off when i think about this) said " that Buddy Hall didnt show me Jack Shit, he never made a hard shot everything he shot was a foot away I could of made them" LMFAO he was dead serious
 

fred bentivegna

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Port Chester Mickey, overrated?

Port Chester Mickey, overrated?

Excerpt from my book. The GosPool:

I did a few road runs with Port Chester Mickey Carpinello, along with Sugar Shack Johnny. Mickey was a heroin addict. He would stay burrowed, deeply, into his dope world for years, never playing a game of pool. He would emerge periodically, when "Sugar Shack" Johnny Novak and myself traveled to Port Chester, NY and dragged him out of his drug world and took him with us on the road.

While on the road, Mickey would go "cold turkey" and stay in the room for weeks kicking his habit. "Sugar Shack" insisted that Mickey must be totally straight while he was with us. It usually took about 30 days for Mickey to become a human being again.

After about three weeks, Mickey would start practicing diligently for hours every day. Two weeks of hard practice and he would be ready. Then we would turn him loose on the 9 Ball pool world. Nobody knew Mickey, so he went through the best players wherever he played like a chain saw going through butter. It was a massacre.

When Mickey was straight he had no bad habits. He didn't drink or smoke and could play for hours on cup of coffee and a candy bar.

Mickey's position play was so flawless that it seemed that he never had a hard shot. I once told him, and this is where the "overrated" part comes in, "I'm not sure if you can really play! You beat everybody, you're never in trouble, but all you ever shoot is hangers."I kinda meant it. I never got to see him shoot under pressure.

How good did Mickey really play? Good enough to sneak up on Wade "Boom
Boom" Crane, aka, "Billy Johnson" in Atlanta in the sixties, when Billy only
missed an average of one ball a week playing 9 Ball. Robbed Squirrel (Marshall Carpenter) in Tuscaloosa, AL playing 9 Ball (lost it back trying to play 1pkt with a spot).

When he was off the drugs, Mickey was a clear minded philosopher whose views on any subject were worth recording. With that in mind, I once asked him, "Mickey, with a mind like you have, with such a clear, pure perspective on everything, how the hell could you become a lifetime heroin junkie?" His reply was a typical Mickeyism, "When I am on heroin, my mind is not so clear."

All things must come to an end. After a few months of looting and pillaging top players, we would wake up one morning and Mickey would be gone. Gone back to Port Chester with his winnings. Gone back to the dope world. Back with freshly healed veins, where the dope, for the first week at least, would actually feel good. Back to no pool and anonymity for a few more years, until "Sugar Shack" and myself would dredge him up again and repeat the ritual.


Beard

Mickey was a protege of William "Sailor" Barge
 

wincardona

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Excerpt from my book. The GosPool:

I did a few road runs with Port Chester Mickey Carpinello, along with Sugar Shack Johnny. Mickey was a heroin addict. He would stay burrowed, deeply, into his dope world for years, never playing a game of pool. He would emerge periodically, when "Sugar Shack" Johnny Novak and myself traveled to Port Chester, NY and dragged him out of his drug world and took him with us on the road.

While on the road, Mickey would go "cold turkey" and stay in the room for weeks kicking his habit. "Sugar Shack" insisted that Mickey must be totally straight while he was with us. It usually took about 30 days for Mickey to become a human being again.

After about three weeks, Mickey would start practicing diligently for hours every day. Two weeks of hard practice and he would be ready. Then we would turn him loose on the 9 Ball pool world. Nobody knew Mickey, so he went through the best players wherever he played like a chain saw going through butter. It was a massacre.

When Mickey was straight he had no bad habits. He didn't drink or smoke and could play for hours on cup of coffee and a candy bar.

Mickey's position play was so flawless that it seemed that he never had a hard shot. I once told him, and this is where the "overrated" part comes in, "I'm not sure if you can really play! You beat everybody, you're never in trouble, but all you ever shoot is hangers."I kinda meant it. I never got to see him shoot under pressure.

How good did Mickey really play? Good enough to sneak up on Wade "Boom
Boom" Crane, aka, "Billy Johnson" in Atlanta in the sixties, when Billy only
missed an average of one ball a week playing 9 Ball. Robbed Squirrel (Marshall Carpenter) in Tuscaloosa, AL playing 9 Ball (lost it back trying to play 1pkt with a spot).

When he was off the drugs, Mickey was a clear minded philosopher whose views on any subject were worth recording. With that in mind, I once asked him, "Mickey, with a mind like you have, with such a clear, pure perspective on everything, how the hell could you become a lifetime heroin junkie?" His reply was a typical Mickeyism, "When I am on heroin, my mind is not so clear."

All things must come to an end. After a few months of looting and pillaging top players, we would wake up one morning and Mickey would be gone. Gone back to Port Chester with his winnings. Gone back to the dope world. Back with freshly healed veins, where the dope, for the first week at least, would actually feel good. Back to no pool and anonymity for a few more years, until "Sugar Shack" and myself would dredge him up again and repeat the ritual.


Beard

Mickey was a protege of William "Sailor" Barge

But could Mickey beat Artie playing 6 ahead?:rolleyes::lol

Really Fred:sorry

Billy I.
 

beatle

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bosten shorty. he won a bunch of tournys but when playing he missed more balls that werent tough than anyone ever. although i didnt see him before the 1960's so he may have been getting past his prime but i think billiards was his best game.

preacher red. never seemed to take down the cash against a player.

joe veasey. besides being one of the all time creeps in pool he didnt really play that well.

cisero murphy he was a hell of a guy but only get rated so high as he was the first black man making the news in pool. he did play top notch straight pool but way below the top ones at his time.

and all the chicago guys while they were in chicago :). just had to put that one in.
 

fred bentivegna

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Re Cisero

Re Cisero

bosten shorty. he won a bunch of tournys but when playing he missed more balls that werent tough than anyone ever. although i didnt see him before the 1960's so he may have been getting past his prime but i think billiards was his best game.

preacher red. never seemed to take down the cash against a player.

joe veasey. besides being one of the all time creeps in pool he didnt really play that well.

cisero murphy he was a hell of a guy but only get rated so high as he was the first black man making the news in pool. he did play top notch straight pool but way below the top ones at his time.

and all the chicago guys while they were in chicago :). just had to put that one in.

As wrong as your are of course, about Chicago boys, you tied that with the Cisero reference. Does anybody know that Cisero played a one week challenge match against Luther Lassiter in Elizabethville, NC (Wimpys hometown). 60s. Cisero won convincingly and had a run of well over 200.
However, he did go to Miami and try DiLiberto out and lost (along with everybody else who tried Danny in those days, including Mizerak).

Beard

All the old timers who played in NY in the 50s said Shorty was a monster. ie., Jersey Red, Ervolino, Pancho, Brooklyn Jimmy, Port Chester Mickey, Richie Ambrose, etc.
I did see him miss a lot of balls in the 60s also, even winning all those tournaments.
 

beatle

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it was about overrated. and cisero was in my book. but of course he was a great straight pool player.

shorty was overrated in the 60's but i have no clue as to the 50's where he was probably a monster player as you do get a reputation from somewhere.
 

NH Steve

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it was about overrated. and cisero was in my book. but of course he was a great straight pool player.

shorty was overrated in the 60's but i have no clue as to the 50's where he was probably a monster player as you do get a reputation from somewhere.
Funny for me to see Shorty here. He was from my area, but I only met him in the 80's -- and he was still playing pretty good even then. At that time what I saw is he still played good enough 9-ball to compete in the regional tournaments. He continued to play right up until he died in 2000, just a few weeks after he played in his last tournament, Grady's World One Pocket event in Portland, ME.
 
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