What can you learn playing different games, including One Pocket?

[lfigueroa]

Do tell, if you feel like you have parsed some things out from that progression. I am curious if you meant anything by that particular order -- 14.1 first, rotation 2nd, and finally One Pocket.

My experience has been that running a lot of balls at 14.1 or rotation does not automatically make you a good 1pocket player -- you have to specifically practice running balls to one pocket, not to mention all the other stuff like banks and caroms.

The order just has to do with how I try and practice: some 14.1, some rotation, and then some 1pocket.

Lou Figueroa

 

[RabbiHippie]

There's a shot in Artistic Billiards where you elevate the cue 90 degrees and strike dead-center on top of the cue ball so that it darts forward a foot or two and then comes straight back with tremendous backspin. I "discovered" it accidentally while fooling around with masse shots as a teenager but never managed to do it again. Now that I'm old, I have too much respect for my equipment to ever try it again. @mr3cushion can probably tell us the proper French term for that stroke; I've forgotten and couldn't find it with a quick search online.

Anyway, I setup that shot in Virtual Pool and the physics were dead-on.

 

[mr3cushion]

There's a shot in Artistic Billiards where you elevate the cue 90 degrees and strike dead-center on top of the cue ball so that it darts forward a foot or two and then comes straight back with tremendous backspin. I "discovered" it accidentally while fooling around with masse shots as a teenager but never managed to do it again. Now that I'm old, I have too much respect for my equipment to ever try it again. @mr3cushion can probably tell us the proper French term for that stroke; I've forgotten and couldn't find it with a quick search online.

Anyway, I setup that shot in Virtual Pool and the physics were dead-on.

It's a Piqué, in general means more backspin than curve compared to a Massé shot, but the elevations may be similar. It has nothing to do with how close the OB is. At the "small" carom games many piqué shots are ball-to-ball draw shots and the elevation is used to keep speed off the cue ball and first object ball. Watch some balkline and you will frequently see the players use 45 to 60 degree elevation for such shots.

 

[lll]

pique from 10:56
masse shots in the beginning

 

[NH Steve]

I’ve mentioned this before but one year at the Derby, Efren was locked in a tight match and there was one ball around the middle of the foot rail between their pockets and the cue ball locked up against one side of it. Each player also had a ball maybe half a diamond or so up off from their own corner pocket — which meant they were ideal cross corner bank threats. It was definitely a dilemma situation! So Efren jacked up and in beautifully controlled fashion he massed from one side of the ball to the other! His opponent — who I believe was Dave Matlock — tried to do the same but the cue ball squirted loose for a sell out.

Needless to say in his younger days Efren played a lot of billiards!!

 

[lll]

I’ve mentioned this before but one year at the Derby, Efren was locked in a tight match and there was one ball around the middle of the foot rail between their pockets and the cue ball locked up against one side of it. Each player also had a ball maybe half a diamond or so up off from their own corner pocket — which meant they were ideal cross corner bank threats. It was definitely a dilemma situation! So Efren jacked up and in beautifully controlled fashion he massed from one side of the ball to the other! His opponent — who I believe was Dave Matlock — tried to do the same but the cue ball squirted loose for a sell out.

Needless to say in his younger days Efren played a lot of billiards!!

as a brief aside to efren's mythical magic shots
his opponents game ball is hanging in his opponents pocket
efren is corner hooked in his pocket
efren rolls from his pocket to the spot perfectly
now when he spots a ball for his foul his opponent has no direct shot at his game ball
sorry for the digression
carry on men

 

[mr3cushion]

I've always been a little mystified by the nickname given to Efren, 'The Magian.' Meaning He needed to come up with some, 'Magical escape' from a trap. Where He let himself get put in.

Which I would rather have a player known as, 'The untethered.' Meaning, wouldn't be allowed to be put in a unattainable situation in the first place!

 

[lll]

I've always been a little mystified by the nickname given to Efren, 'The Magian.' Meaning He needed to come up with some, 'Magical escape' from a trap. Where He let himself get put in.

Which I would rather have a player known as, 'The untethered.' Meaning, wouldn't be allowed to be put in a unattainable situation in the first place!

in 9 ball your opponent plays a safe when he gets out of line or feels its to his strategic advantage
efren would not have put himself in the trap in that situation.
but he earned the nickname by escaping from doom by "magic"

 

[mr3cushion]

in 9 ball your opponent plays a safe when he gets out of line or feels its to his strategic advantage
efren would not have put himself in the trap in that situation.
but he earned the nickname by escaping from doom by "magic"

Larry, I'm speaking 'One Pocket!'

The comment was made about him playing a, 'Masse' in a 1P match.

 

[lll]

Larry, I'm speaking 'One Pocket!'

The comment was made about him playing a, 'Masse' in a 1P match.

i understand bill
the masse shot i believe was mentioned because of it being brought up in a prior post
efren is called the magician because of his shots across disciplines.
your point is well taken about commending a player for getting out of trouble that he created for himself
but its still amazing to see a rabbit get pulled out of a hat....
just sayin....

 

[mr3cushion]

i understand bill
the masse shot i believe was mentioned because of it being brought up in a prior post
efren is called the magician because of his shots across disciplines.
your point is well taken about commending a player for getting out of trouble that he created for himself
but its still amazing to see a rabbit get pulled out of a hat....
just sayin....

There's no doubt it's entertaining.

 

[sorackem]

I've always thought 'Magician' was a perfect veneration.

That is if you expect the performer to look as surprised as the audience when the proverbial rabbit manifests.

 

[mr3cushion]

I've always thought 'Magician' was a perfect veneration.

That is if you expect the performer to look as surprised as the audience when the proverbial rabbit manifests.

I think you missed My point.

 

[lll]

I've always thought 'Magician' was a perfect veneration.

That is if you expect the performer to look as surprised as the audience when the proverbial rabbit manifests.

i always learn new words from you
thanks....
ven·er·a·tion
[ˌvenəˈrāSH(ə)n]

NOUN

1. great respect; reverence:

 

[Roy Steffensen]

From 9-ball: Pocketing skills. Learning to make the white ball run around the table for position. In 14-1 you can often go for another shot if you fail on position. In 9-ball you learn to use spin and do creative shots to get to the next ball when you have played bad position.

From 14-1: Learn to pocket balls in small areas, with minimal cue movement. Learning combos, reading the stack and cue-ball movement after bumping into balls.

From one-pocket: patience, creativity, bank-shots, kick and especially safeties.

If you play the different games, you will improve quicker in all of them.

After I started to play one-pocket I won more 9-ball games, because I won more safeties, and I could kick or bank myself out of trouble.

When I feel good running racks in 9-ball, I get the confidence I need to run balls in one pocket. If you don’t have that confidence you might start playing safe after making 2 balls in one-pocket, instead of making a harder shot and then run the table

 

[mr3cushion]

From 9-ball: Pocketing skills. Learning to make the white ball run around the table for position. In 14-1 you can often go for another shot if you fail on position. In 9-ball you learn to use spin and do creative shots to get to the next ball when you have played bad position.

From 14-1: Learn to pocket balls in small areas, with minimal cue movement. Learning combos, reading the stack and cue-ball movement after bumping into balls.

From one-pocket: patience, creativity, bank-shots, kick and especially safeties.

If you play the different games, you will improve quicker in all of them.

After I started to play one-pocket I won more 9-ball games, because I won more safeties, and I could kick or bank myself out of trouble.

When I feel good running racks in 9-ball, I get the confidence I need to run balls in one pocket. If you don’t have that confidence you might start playing safe after making 2 balls in one-pocket, instead of making a harder shot and then run the table

PERFECT reply to the on topic title!

 

[cincy_kid]

I didn't even think of Virtual Pool -- does anyone who has played it feel like they have learned anything that has helped them with real pool -- One Pocket in particular??

For sure.

You're right--Virtual Pool is the most realistic simulation of the actual physics of the game there is. I had a copy of the first release back in the 90's. It came with a video of Lou Butera running a hundred balls in about ten minutes.

I remember that video lol...

Their latest version (vp4) is pretty darn realistic. I was so glad to see them add one pocket and banks.

If I were ever in a situation where I was unable to play real pool whether it be no table, no time or just too old to go out and do it...vp4 would be my "go to" so I could get my fix in lol...very real to the game and so many games to play.

The creator of the game is a member here, Steve Chaplin, goes by @pooljunky - I think he said he learned the game from Frank the Barber...

 

[sorackem]

I think you missed My point.

Mr. mr3cushion,

III, actually helped, somewhat, contemplating your point.
The point remains confusing to me.

I don't understand how even a top player can always avoid being put in an untenable position.
An equally top competitor is there because he is well capable of doing just that. Situations often presented to pique our interest in OP.org WWYD's (Ghost - I miss you too).
- The above was in response to the post quoted.

My point, which quoted no-one was simply that Efren has earned his reputation and has, even more impressive to me, remained a humble world-beater.

You seem slightly reactive but there was no intent from me to disregard.
There are many, many things I could post but refrain. Your statement that I missed your point brought me to this adventure.

Earlier you mentioned and revealed a pearl. Personally, I thought it to be very valuable to hold onto once I could get to a table. I'll take that kind of advice to the table every time. It's all me from there, right.
That you shared something useful, valuable was not missed on me. Whether I personally could benefit from it or not - it was generous and welcome.

There's a lot of that in OP.org. When you think about it - this place is freaking' great.

ps-how can one always avoid being put in an unattainable position? (long eh?)

 

[NH Steve]

From 9-ball: Pocketing skills. Learning to make the white ball run around the table for position. In 14-1 you can often go for another shot if you fail on position. In 9-ball you learn to use spin and do creative shots to get to the next ball when you have played bad position.

From 14-1: Learn to pocket balls in small areas, with minimal cue movement. Learning combos, reading the stack and cue-ball movement after bumping into balls.

From one-pocket: patience, creativity, bank-shots, kick and especially safeties.

If you play the different games, you will improve quicker in all of them.

After I started to play one-pocket I won more 9-ball games, because I won more safeties, and I could kick or bank myself out of trouble.

When I feel good running racks in 9-ball, I get the confidence I need to run balls in one pocket. If you don’t have that confidence you might start playing safe after making 2 balls in one-pocket, instead of making a harder shot and then run the table

Great to see a post from you Roy!!

 

[NH Steve]

i understand bill
the masse shot i believe was mentioned because of it being brought up in a prior post
efren is called the magician because of his shots across disciplines.
your point is well taken about commending a player for getting out of trouble that he created for himself
but its still amazing to see a rabbit get pulled out of a hat....
just sayin....

...it was also brought up as an example of Efren taking something that he learned from another cue discipline -- whatever form of billiards he played when he was younger. Just like the topic of the thread