Updating of our One Pocket rules

darmoose

Verified Member
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
2,420
From
Baltimore, MD
4. Safety play

There is no option to ‘call a safety’ in One Pocket; if a player legally scores a ball into their own pocket they must shoot again, unless the game is over. Players may play safe to the same rail as many times as they wish, as long as either the cue ball or at least one object ball is driven to a cushion after the cue ball contacts an object ball. Reference rule 8.


IMO this sentence might confuse many players, especially those who have never played 14.1 (straight pool), and would not understand the significance of calling "safe" when pocketing a ball with the intention of having that ball spotted up. It is true that a small group of players who have played only 14.1 might wonder about that rule in 1P, but off hand I can't think of a good example of where that 14.1 safety rule might be used in 1P-- perhaps pocketing a ball in one's hole and freezing the CB to the stack?
I see no reason to address this situation at all on OP rules. Pocketing a ball in any pocket other than your own ends your inning. Pocketing a ball in your pocket continues your inning, and if you don't want to continue shooting you can take an intentional without moving the CB if that is your desire.

I think if one was unaware of the 14.1 rule this rule would not even be considered for OP.
 

12squared

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
3,997
From
Fort Collins, CO
I see no reason to address this situation at all on OP rules. Pocketing a ball in any pocket other than your own ends your inning. Pocketing a ball in your pocket continues your inning, and if you don't want to continue shooting you can take an intentional without moving the CB if that is your desire.

I think if one was unaware of the 14.1 rule this rule would not even be considered for OP.
No reason not to include it for clarification for new players. 8 ball is another game where you can call safe, make a ball and your inning is over.
 

NH Steve

Administrator
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
12,283
From
New Hampshire
Very difficult sentenced to be written well.

Is this better:

For a foul to result because the cue ball or object ball was frozen to a rail prior to the shot, the ball in question must be inspected and designated prior to the shot?
It probably would suffice to simply say something like: A ball is not considered frozen unless it is inspected and designated as frozen prior to the shot.

4. Safety play

There is no option to ‘call a safety’ in One Pocket; if a player legally scores a ball into their own pocket they must shoot again, unless the game is over. Players may play safe to the same rail as many times as they wish, as long as either the cue ball or at least one object ball is driven to a cushion after the cue ball contacts an object ball. Reference rule 8.


IMO this sentence might confuse many players, especially those who have never played 14.1 (straight pool), and would not understand the significance of calling "safe" when pocketing a ball with the intention of having that ball spotted up. It is true that a small group of players who have played only 14.1 might wonder about that rule in 1P, but off hand I can't think of a good example of where that 14.1 safety rule might be used in 1P-- perhaps pocketing a ball in one's hole and freezing the CB to the stack?
Called safeties come up in other games too. BTW, this has been in our rules for 17 years and I do not recall anyone bringing up an actual issue with it in that time.

I like the "full consent" option in 9.4

And I continue to favor (strongly) "his/her" to using the plural pronoun "their" to refer to a single person. Being unwieldy is insufficient excuse, IMO.
Yeah, we tried "his" also, but I keep going back to "their". It works.

Very difficult sentenced to be written well.

Is this better:

For a foul to result because the cue ball or object ball was frozen to a rail prior to the shot, the ball in question must be inspected and designated prior to the shot?
I believe when it gets up tho 3 balls it is considered un-restorable. Otherwise you could penalize the innocent player in the chair, when a klutz like me disturbs balls.
.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
3,923
From
Klamath Falls, Or.
4. Safety play

There is no option to ‘call a safety’ in One Pocket; if a player legally scores a ball into their own pocket they must shoot again, unless the game is over. Players may play safe to the same rail as many times as they wish, as long as either the cue ball or at least one object ball is driven to a cushion after the cue ball contacts an object ball. Reference rule 8.


IMO this sentence might confuse many players, especially those who have never played 14.1 (straight pool), and would not understand the significance of calling "safe" when pocketing a ball with the intention of having that ball spotted up. It is true that a small group of players who have played only 14.1 might wonder about that rule in 1P, but off hand I can't think of a good example of where that 14.1 safety rule might be used in 1P-- perhaps pocketing a ball in one's hole and freezing the CB to the stack?
Doc, I am so glad you caught this, and you put it so well, 'might confuse players'. I and Bob have tried repeatedly to steer Steve from using this sentence for it does not apply to OP or any game that is not 'call pocket'. Interjecting a rule within the OP rules that does not apply to OP, I am not a fan of.
I deleted the rest of this.
Whitey
 
Last edited:

NH Steve

Administrator
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
12,283
From
New Hampshire
Dennis, as you know, I don’t want all that in our One Pocket rules because if anything it belongs in General Rules, not game rules. It’s tough enough doing game rules for a complex game like One Pocket, no way do I want get into General Rules.

But as always, thank you for your effort and your thoroughness!!
 

Miller

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
5,524
From
East St. Louis Area
Unless I missed a correction from our committee exchanges, this is what we have, and looks complete to me.

Sorry Dustin, there is nothing in here about use of the bridge because that would fall under "General Rules". Our game rules are already long enough :)

understand.

i don't want to convolute the process/discussion any further....but....is it possible that there could be an Interpretations addendum to the official rules to address unique scenarios such as this that are not clearly defined under the "General Rules"?
 

Miller

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
5,524
From
East St. Louis Area
Unless I missed a correction from our committee exchanges, this is what we have, and looks complete to me.

Sorry Dustin, there is nothing in here about use of the bridge because that would fall under "General Rules". Our game rules are already long enough :)

understand.

i don't want to convolute the process/discussion any further....but....is it possible that there could be an Interpretations addendum to the official rules to address unique scenarios such as this that are not clearly defined under the "General Rules"?

World Pool-Billiards Association Section 1 General Rules Sub-Section 1.3 Players Use of Equipment provides the following:

(c) Mechanical Bridges – The player may use up to two mechanical bridges to support the cue
stick during the shot. The configuration of the bridges is up to the player. He may use his own
bridge if it is similar to standard bridges.


Section 8 Definitions Used in the Rules does not define a “mechanical bridge.”

Leaves it about as clear as mud and can see arguments made either way….
 

Miller

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
5,524
From
East St. Louis Area
Well, you will not let me write up general rules geared specifically for OP so what else can I do. It is not my fault that the WPA rules are so inadequate for players knowledge! Well any way your comment sure put a stop to any discussions, of which is not a true statement for we do have rules within the official rules that are general rules.

But, you do not have any general rules that cover the rules that I have in 4. Safety or 8. Frozen. So should you finally decide that WPA rules are just not adequate to support players thirst for knowledge, and the knowledge to be able to play this game of OP. When does the standard of rules and standard of play ever get elevated, or does it just die in the stone age.
I believe this is the 21st Century and not one rule in WPA is advance knowledge. How else can players know anything. They learn rules by word of mouth, and if I called them on it, they could not even back up what is a double hit foul or a push shot foul. Not by a written rule.

Not long ago, I did a thread on Legal Shot, and I bet many viewers did not know when an object is frozen to a rail then when the cb contacts the rail and the ball at the same time (simultaneous hit) then no further rail contact or pocketing of ball is required. You will not find that in WPA.
Sorry, but it needs to be said!
Whitey

that's why i think an Interpretations addendum that concisely spell out the few unique nuances would be a good fit in lieu of weighing down the official rules....
;)
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
3,923
From
Klamath Falls, Or.
that's why i think an Interpretations addendum that concisely spell out the few unique nuances would be a good fit in lieu of weighing down the official rules....
;)
Yes, we have discussed addendum, and I have many times brought up the idea of Op.org having their own set of general rules. Everyone knows that! I believe modern rules should also include diagrams and videos of the more higher end technical billiard disciplines.
Whitey
 
Last edited:

darmoose

Verified Member
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
2,420
From
Baltimore, MD
I do not understand discussing a rule for safeties in OP. There is no such thing. You either make a legal shot or an illegal shot, in which case you owe a ball. No one needs to know whether you intended a safety or not. If you pocket a ball in your hole you must shoot again. If you pocket a ball in any other pocket than yours, or you fail to pocket a ball, your inning is over.

Perhaps we should include a rule pointing out there is no push out allowed in OP (like in 9 ball), or perhaps we need to have a rule that makes it clear that the rules used in bank pool do not apply to OP when banking.

I don't understand writing rules for one game (like OP) whose only aim is to deny rules applicable to another game. I don't think more rules are going to reduce confusion or result in fewer questions................ :rolleyes:

we are writing rules defining what is NOT included in OP......... :unsure:
 

Bob Jewett

Verified Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2005
Messages
577
From
Berkeley, CA
I do not understand discussing a rule for safeties in OP. ...
Exactly. It is broken and confusing to fill in details that have nothing to do with the game. If there is no calling of shots mentioned, there can be no safeties. Make a ball in your pocket legally and it is still your turn. There is no need to explain that to people in the rules. If someone wants to write an introductory/explanatory article about the game, they should feel free to talk about such things there. The rules can and should remain silent on the subject.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
3,923
From
Klamath Falls, Or.
I deleted a few of my posts so members can concentrate on actually what is in the rules vs. hypothetical.

But, there are many improvements such as; a stronger trapping and wedging within the stack to stop the illegal act of pushing the cb and or the ob further into the stack. So I would be careful from now on when playing stack play!

Player procedure; which was pretty much non existent has now come to the forefront. The outgoing player racks for the incoming player. Players are now charged to take care of their own balls and coins.

And we now have an advance rule when stroking a close proximity shot. We all know that if the cb takes off at the same speed as the ob then it is a foul.

The best writings and work was done on the break. It now covers the many possible scenarios that could arise, so if something funny happens you can now refer to it. Such as; not contacting the rack, double clutching, scratching, and scoring a ball on the break. It is hard to see the standard of opponent racks go by the way side, but in reality it has not been in use in tournaments for a few decades. I voted for it on the poll.

We also had to write a new BIH-BTL rule. It now warns the player if the balls are in a no playable position. We all played BIH-BTL this way, and now it is back! Also we voted for 'Whole Ball', and that is back!

So take note of this stuff as you go through the rules.
Whitey
 
Last edited:

NH Steve

Administrator
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
12,283
From
New Hampshire
Dennis I scrolled back in our committee messages. I posted these complete rules there several months ago! However it is true you keep coming up with either new or often old ideas that are pet concerns for you -- because you’ve been concerned with pool rules for many years, with a long backlog of rule grievances — many of which of course are much more related to general rules than 1P rules.
 
Last edited:

lll

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
19,057
From
vero beach fl
I dont understand why if you move one ball at the end of a game its not treated like moving only one ball at any other time in the game?
 

NH Steve

Administrator
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
12,283
From
New Hampshire
I dont understand why if you move one ball at the end of a game its not treated like moving only one ball at any other time in the game?
Of course it would be. I think you must be reading one of Dennis’s suggestions. Please re-read the rules as I posted them above. That extra editing is just one of Dennis’s suggestions that we already reviewed in committee.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lll

Ratamon

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
734
From
London, UK
I do not understand discussing a rule for safeties in OP.

Neither do I. There is no BIH on the foul so if you happen to pocket a ball and want to end your inning right where the CB has come to rest, you just take an intentional and spot up the ball you’ve just pocketed. It’s much ado about nothing really.
 

Ratamon

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
734
From
London, UK
It probably would suffice to simply say something like: A ball is not considered frozen unless it is inspected and designated as frozen prior to the shot.
Isn’t it already in the general rules that a ball has to be called frozen prior to the shot?
 

NH Steve

Administrator
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
12,283
From
New Hampshire
Neither do I. There is no BIH on the foul so if you happen to pocket a ball and want to end your inning right where the CB has come to rest, you just take an intentional and spot up the ball you’ve just pocketed. It’s much ado about nothing really.
I know that one of the first things I mention when a I show someone One Pocket for the first time, is that it is not a call shot game. Calling your Pocket would be kind of redundant since we only have one pocket wouldn’t it lol. I see nothing wrong with including you cannot “call a safety” . It’s not there for experienced players — you guys all already know that of course.

Ratamon — that’s a pretty slick move you just described!
 
Top