The Pilot Came To Town

darmoose

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Anybody know, if you're playing that you can simply declare your intent to jump the balls off the table, are there any limitations on when you can do that? Are there any circumstances where you cannot make that declaration?
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Anybody know, if you're playing that you can simply declare your intent to jump the balls off the table, are there any limitations on when you can do that? Are there any circumstances where you cannot make that declaration?
Not sure exactly your question!
If you talking about the 'No Jump Rule'. The original version had a declaration of the 'Virtual Jump', but this was eliminated.
But, if you are talking about some other declaration of jumping a ball off the table, OP has no declaration requirements.
I believe the only declaration in OP is frozen ball scenarios.
Whitey
 

darmoose

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Not sure exactly your question!
If you talking about the 'No Jump Rule'. The original version had a declaration of the 'Virtual Jump', but this was eliminated.
But, if you are talking about some other declaration of jumping a ball off the table, OP has no declaration requirements.
I believe the only declaration in OP is frozen ball scenarios.
Whitey
I am not sure why this is so difficult. IF you are playing in a room or in tournament where they do not allow jumping balls off the table, and so you allow players to simply declare their intention to do so. And so they simply remove the ball hanging in the pocket and spot it along with a penalty ball.

Are they ALWAYS allowed to do that or are there circumstances where they can't do that, like they couldn't hit the hanging ball, if they tried?
 

jtompilot

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I am not sure why this is so difficult. IF you are playing in a room or in tournament where they do not allow jumping balls off the table, and so you allow players to simply declare their intention to do so. And so they simply remove the ball hanging in the pocket and spot it along with a penalty ball.

Are they ALWAYS allowed to do that or are there circumstances where they can't do that, like they couldn't hit the hanging ball, if they tried?
They are doing that at the Rack and a few friends houses that don’t wand broken windows, dented walls, chipped cue balls, or whatever.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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I am not sure why this is so difficult. IF you are playing in a room or in tournament where they do not allow jumping balls off the table, and so you allow players to simply declare their intention to do so. And so they simply remove the ball hanging in the pocket and spot it along with a penalty ball.

Are they ALWAYS allowed to do that or are there circumstances where they can't do that, like they couldn't hit the hanging ball, if they tried?
As I stated the 'Virtual Jump' was eliminated in the No Jump Rule.
If a pool room does not allow balls to be jumped off of the table, then the players can agree among themselves to do a virtual jump.

But, the players have to therefore agree when a virtual jump is allowed. For instance; if the player has a clear shot to do a jumped ball shot in the first place, then it would seem reasonable to allow it. But, if it is a reasonable shot to follow the ball in and scratch, then I would think the players need to discuss this, and probably not allow a virtual jump. For on a hanging ball a player should use their skill to do a follow scratch.

Normally a player would not jump a ball off of the table on balls leading up to the game winning ball, so the game winning ball is when it really comes into play.

DCC and the International tournament have adopted Steve's no jump rule, in their tournaments a virtual jump declaration is not allowed. Other TD's if they know about the virtual jump could of course play that way.

The problem with not allowing a virtual jump on the game winning ball is that a hung ball is for intense purposes is a win. Some pockets play so soft that you could actually miss the shot by quite a bit and still hang the ball, so this makes it pretty tough to accept that this kind of a shot is a lock up winning shot.
Tough way to lose a game or a match! I notice our MOT played by OP standard rules, thus allowing balls to be jumped. I think it should be a rule to announce a jumped ball by saying 'Fore".

I like when a ball is hanging and the cue ball has a clear shot at it, but it is recognized that the cue ball is unable to follow the ball in, such as; when the cue ball is against the foot rail and the ball is against the jaw of the pocket against the same foot rail, then it is impossible to follow it in, and therefore a virtual jump is then allowed .

But, it was felt that this complexity was to much for these TD's to deal with in explaining to player's. DCC does whatever it can to eliminate their referee's from going to the tables, thus the 45 degree rule, and not allowing a virtual jump.
Whitey
 
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darmoose

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Thanks Whitey, I know there is no official covering this... just wondered how most people are playing this if they can't jump balls off the table. BTW, I don't see how we can force someone to attempt a pocket scratch as everyone has different skill levels and may not think they can do it, even tho you could.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Thanks Whitey, I know there is no official covering this... just wondered how most people are playing this if they can't jump balls off the table. BTW, I don't see how we can force someone to attempt a pocket scratch as everyone has different skill levels and may not think they can do it, even tho you could.
Yes, the force pocket scratch vs. giving a virtual jump is just pure speculation on my part.

Darmoose this is how I would play it in matching up where the players want to play by 'No Jumped Ball Rule', but do not want to give up the game because of a hanging ball.

Virtual Jump - Applies only to the Game Winning Ball:
When the game winning ball for the opponent is deemed hanging (not able to take out), and there is a clear path to jump the cue ball off the table and there is a consensus by the players that it is not possible to follow pocket scratch, then the player is allowed a 'virtual jump'.
------------
When this rule was reviewed there were members that stated the virtual jump should not be a pure given because when the ball is hanging and you have a clear shot to follow it in, then a virtual jump should not be allowed.

Anyway the virtual is not in the rules so the players themselves have to figure it out when they want to play by the no jumped ball.

Maybe you have a better way to suggest how to play the virtual jump.
Whitey
 

stevelomako

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I am not sure why this is so difficult. IF you are playing in a room or in tournament where they do not allow jumping balls off the table, and so you allow players to simply declare their intention to do so. And so they simply remove the ball hanging in the pocket and spot it along with a penalty ball.

Are they ALWAYS allowed to do that or are there circumstances where they can't do that, like they couldn't hit the hanging ball, if they tried?
Like I said in the post that you didn’t think answered your question, they are playing that it doesn’t matter where the balls are.

That’s why I told them most of them couldn’t jump most of the balls that they are just picking up. Like balls deep in the pocket and you can just see a little of it. Beats me
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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It is hard to make a definitive determination as to when a virtual jump can be declared.
So how about this.
A virtual jump can be played only on the game winning ball when it is in contact with the line across the points of the opponent's scoring pocket, and this is dependent upon the shooter having a clear shot to either pocket the ball and follow scratch it in or to jump the cue ball or object ball off of the table.

I am feeling very uncomfortable about discussing this on Baby Huey's thread, for this is so unrelated. It is getting quite a bit of views, so there is interest.
So Steveomako should consider opening up a thread on this subject, so we can really open it up for a discussion, since he initiated this unrelated direction of this thread. IMO!
Whitey
 
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