'Spot Shots' made tough! Even for Champions.

[mr3cushion]

On a 'Russian Pyramid' table. How tough is it to make a ball you ask. During a Pro Nine ball event (Earl, Mika, etc) at the location where this table was we held a contest. Between their matches, for $5 they got to shoot 5 spot shots to see how many they could make. They could try as many times throughout the day as they wanted. At the end of the day whoever had made the most got all the money. After the smoke cleared, two players had made 2. There was a playoff with each player getting five tries. The champ took home the money by making one...

 

[gulfportdoc]

The few times I've seen Russian players play this game on these tables (Staleev for one), they really slam the balls in. It's almost like stuffing or forcing them into the pockets. My guess is that the cushions are relatively soft. You don't see them rolling balls in all that much. Still, one can see how their shot making would be very accurate.

 

[Ratamon]

Crazy game! As Doc says, lots of brute force is required. I believe Russians play this game on a 12-footer with 2 2/3" 10 oz balls, corner pockets at 2 7/8" and middle pockets at 3 1/4", which would probably take all enjoyment out of the game for most people. Some will need binoculars to be able to see the other end of the table!

 

[mr3cushion]

Crazy game! As Doc says, lots of brute force is required. I believe Russians play this game on a 12-footer with 2 2/3" 10 oz balls, corner pockets at 2 7/8" and middle pockets at 3 1/4", which would probably take all enjoyment out of the game for most people. Some will need binoculars to be able to see the other end of the table!

I believe, they also play with, 22-25 ounce cues.

 

[sneakynito]

I played this game at a really amazing billiard room in Prague. Billiard Centrum Kolbenka
They had every kind of table that I even know of in like a giant old ball room setting, with many more side rooms with more tables.
Such a cool place.

Had to try this game out. So tough.
12ft tables. Biggest balls i've seen in any billiards game. Balls cleared those pockets by mm's.
And the cues were huge. Felt like shooting with a walking stick.
Cool game though. Another neat thing about it is you score for caroming your cue ball into a pocket as well.

Here's the main hall from that room.

 

[Ratamon]

I believe, they also play with, 22-25 ounce cues.

Yep, they do follow the golden ratio, x2.5 cue to ball weight.

 

[mr3cushion]

Yep, they do follow the golden ratio, x2.5 cue to ball weight.

Rat, according to Your formula, All 3C players must be the exception, or don't play with the correct weight cues!
98% of 3C players do Not play with a cue over 535 grams/18.8 oz! Most are around 525 grams.
I personally play with, 522 (18.4 oz) which includes 2 rubber grips.
the balls are 61.5 mm in (2.42 inches) in diameter. And weigh approximately 200 grams.

Please show an example of the, (Golden Rule) formula for, 'Snooker' balls and 'Snooker' cue?

 

[gulfportdoc]

I played this game at a really amazing billiard room in Prague. Billiard Centrum Kolbenka
They had every kind of table that I even know of in like a giant old ball room setting, with many more side rooms with more tables.
Such a cool place.

Sneaky-- presumably those tables closest to the viewer are Russian Billiards tables. Are the other tables in the picture regulation pool tables?

 

[sneakynito]

Sneaky-- presumably those tables closest to the viewer are Russian Billiards tables. Are the other tables in the picture regulation pool tables?

Yes, those are Pyramid tables at the bottom. And yep, they had a bunch of 9fts. Besides what's in the picture they had tables tucked away in multiple rooms. Sounds like a great contender for our Members tournament!

The side rooms were equally impressive. 12ft snooker tables. Carom tables in multiple lengths. 7ft pool tables. Very cheap beer.
Pool heaven.

 

[Ratamon]

Rat, according to Your formula, All 3C players must be the exception, or don't play with the correct weight cues!
98% of 3C players do Not play with a cue over 535 grams/18.8 oz! Most are around 525 grams.
I personally play with, 522 (18.4 oz) which includes 2 rubber grips.
the balls are 61.5 mm in (2.42 inches) in diameter. And weigh approximately 200 grams.

Please show an example of the, (Golden Rule) formula for, 'Snooker' balls and 'Snooker' cue?

The ratio is linked to the Coriolis effect. It is mentioned in either the Coriolis book or one of the later books on the physics of ball motion (I should have them stashed away somewhere in my house). There was a proof included in the book, too. If I find it, I will post up an extract.

Anyway, as far I can tell based on a quick Google search, the regulation 3C balls are between 205 and 220 grams. 525/210 is smack bang on target. 3C balls may have evolved from heavier to lighter over the years but cues haven't adjusted (I don't know, just a speculation) or the fact that the game is played on a heated table may affect the ratio.

Bob Jewett may comment further if he chooses to do so.

 

[lll]

Yep, they do follow the golden ratio, x2.5 cue to ball weight.

pool balls weigh around 6 oz
6 x 2.5 =15
most pool cues are 19 oz not 15 oz
confused

 

[Ratamon]

pool balls weigh around 6 oz
6 x 2.5 =15
most pool cues are 19 oz not 15 oz
confused

Many people get confused by physics, especially cue makers and ball manufacturers

 

[mr3cushion]

The ratio is linked to the Coriolis effect. It is mentioned in either the Coriolis book or one of the later books on the physics of ball motion (I should have them stashed away somewhere in my house). There was a proof included in the book, too. If I find it, I will post up an extract.

Anyway, as far I can tell based on a quick Google search, the regulation 3C balls are between 205 and 220 grams. 525/210 is smack bang on target. 3C balls may have evolved from heavier to lighter over the years but cues haven't adjusted (I don't know, just a speculation) or the fact that the game is played on a heated table may affect the ratio.

Bob Jewett may comment further if he chooses to do so.

Your Wrong! 3C balls have gotten larger and may have about the same weight as 'Ivories' in the Golden Era of 3C!

Granted, Ivory 3C balls may have been a little, 'Denser' than Modern day 3C balls.

During the, 20's - 60's Championship 3C balls were 2&25/64ths = 59.8mm. The size for the last 50 years till now are 61.5mm.

 

[Ratamon]

Your Wrong! 3C balls have gotten larger and may have about the same weight as 'Ivories' in the Golden Era of 3C!

Granted, Ivory 3C balls may have been a little, 'Denser' than Modern day 3C balls.

During the, 20's - 60's Championship 3C balls were 2&25/64ths = 59.8mm. The size for the last 50 years till now are 61.5mm.

I did not pretend to be right on this specific and minor point of detail (which is exactly what said in my post).

I have found the info, though, but it's impenetrable for non-physicists so I'm not going to bore you to death with it. The ideal ratio appears to be 3.0 assuming no energy loss on tip-to-ball contact and the shot being executed with the cue's own weight only; however, whether there is a loss of energy on the cue-to-ball impact (as is in real life), the ratio slips to 2.5 on most equipment.

Where the actual ratio deviates from the above this results in higher % of miscues and amplified Coriolis effect on the cue ball.

So now you know

 

[mr3cushion]

So, according to the proponents of the, 'Coriolis effect' related to pool & billiards, Ten million Korean Carom players and the rest of the 3C community in the World are playing against, 'Scientific' formula/theory.

Sometimes relying on, Dr, Google doesn't always give the correct diagnoses/theory or prognoses/result.

Which is it that causes a, "higher % of miscues,' a too light of cue for the size balls or, too heavy a cue for the size of balls?

P.S. Ronnie O'Sullivan's specs for his cue.
58.125" = 147.8 cm
18.25 Oz = 517.3 grms
9.6mm tip
30mm butt

 

[Ratamon]

So, according to the proponents of the, 'Coriolis effect' related to pool & billiards, Ten million Korean Carom players and the rest of the 3C community in the World are playing against, 'Scientific' formula/theory.

Sometimes relying on, Dr, Google doesn't always give the correct diagnoses/theory or prognoses/result.

Which is it that causes a, "higher % of miscues,' a too light of cue for the size balls or, too heavy a cue for the size of balls?

P.S. Ronnie O'Sullivan's specs for his cue.
58.125" = 147.8 cm
18.25 Oz = 517.3 grms
9.6mm tip
30mm butt

Bill,

We are talking about differences around the edges, as far as 3C is concerned. 525/205 is not far off the 2.5 mark and would be within the statistical tolerance level (as energy loss varies depending on tip, cleanliness of balls, table condition and environment, among other factors).

American pool is an outlier but I don’t have an explanation for the departure.

 

[mr3cushion]

Bill,

We are talking about differences around the edges, as far as 3C is concerned. 525/205 is not far off the 2.5 mark and would be within the statistical tolerance level (as energy loss varies depending on tip, cleanliness of balls, table condition and environment, among other factors).

American pool is an outlier but I don’t have an explanation for the departure.

Rat, all the factors you mention are elements of All cue games.

 

[Eengat]

played a tournament with my son this summer in Siberia
their WC as they love putting more flags on the banner, they paid the trip
why not, we went Siberia

yes you need to power the ball. So no compact stroke...what you'll see them do, or Chris Melling style totally opened up the backswing, or Stalev style like on the break, up in the air
Skadoosh!

Or, you play the Swajak, cueball scratch which scores as well
then either little stronger with topspin or smooth with friendly english for the pocket, its the spin not the mass that will manipulate the ball nto the pocket

in free style Piramid, you need to make 8 balls
scratch or pocket
any ball to be used as cueball
you'll see many runouts

 

[NH Steve]

played a tournament with my son this summer in Siberia
their WC as they love putting more flags on the banner, they paid the trip
why not, we went Siberia

yes you need to power the ball. So no compact stroke...what you'll see them do, or Chris Melling style totally opened up the backswing, or Stalev style like on the break, up in the air
Skadoosh!

Or, you play the Swajak, cueball scratch which scores as well
then either little stronger with topspin or smooth with friendly english for the pocket, its the spin not the mass that will manipulate the ball nto the pocket

in free style Piramid, you need to make 8 balls
scratch or pocket
any ball to be used as cueball
you'll see many runouts

Sounds like an interesting thinking game, with all those choices of how to score and which ball to use as a cue ball!!

I wonder about "skidding" issues since chalk would be getting on any object ball that got used as a cue ball???

 

[lll]

Over there taom v10 is the new chalk that doesnt leave a residue
Eengat have you tried it ?
Opinion?