So how can OnePocket.org do more to support One Pocket?

Dennis "Whitey" Young

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
3,423
From
Klamath Falls, Or.
in our town we play bcapl 8 ball league, and we went to their fargo handicap system. Each team has 5 players. You total up each player's fargo rating on each team. Say a team has a total of a 3000 pt. fargo rating, and their opponent team has a 2000 pt. fargo rating. 3000 - 2000 = 1000.
Now divide 1000 by 50, and that gives you the handicap per round of play, which is 20.

This system really helps the slightly higher than middle of the road local small town players and their teams. It can also benefit teams with much less skilled players. But teams that have higher skilled players it is devastating.

Bcapl has 3 different types of handicap systems, which I have studied. We use to play by a 10 point system, but it heavily favors the higher skilled teams, they have never lost. The reason being is that we did not rate the lesser skilled players low enough to offset this disparity, for it was run by a president that believed the higher skilled teams should win, and boy did they. But still the league thrived for mainly the players play for fun.

But the fargo system works nice if you adjust to fit your league, and in accordance that a fair handicap system makes every team play well to win. A lot of players feel that the less skilled players should get better if they want to compete, but where is the incentive for the higher skilled players/teams if they always win.

So, the bcapl fargo system is easy to adjust, you just divide by a greater number, say 60. 1000 divided by 60 now creates the handicap to be 17 balls vs. what was 20.

My team is loaded with talent, and if we lost 1 or 2 games out of 25 games we would lose the match severely. We raised our win/loss percentage up by 20% and still did not get into the top 4 teams for a payout. Whereas other teams that made it into the top 4 did not have to play any better.
So it can be adjusted!

I should conclude with; bcapl does have a few towns that do have OP leagues. I do not know how it works, the handicap, format. But as you can see; a 650 fargo plays a 550 in OP, you divide the difference of 100 pts. by 50 and you get 2. Would this translate to an 8-6 handicap, I have no idea.
Or, 8 games to 6, and reduced would be 4 games to 3.

Then in a short race to 3, would then the alternating break be a consideration; 1 break would be 8-5, the next 8-7, averages 8-6.
Whitey
 
Last edited:

darmoose

Verified Member
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
2,351
From
Baltimore, MD
Steve , if you read my 3 posts on this matter all I have been saying is that unless a tournament is handicapped to create a fair somewhat level playing field, then better players will always win! Charging those players less entry fee does nothing to improve their game, does not in any way reward laziness or carefree play, and does not in any way penalize honest effort to learn, improve or excel. To the contrary it allows them to compete against all the players the field where they will not just be run over but rather be in a position where they can experience the thrill of competing and if they are playing their best that day the thrill of winning. Whats the sense of entering a tournament if you don't have a reasonable chance of winning?? Now at an event like the Derby thats a different story but all those players already love and play One Pocket. I was under the inmpession we were discussing getting new people interested in the game and your system doesn't work for that group.
Going back to my original statement, which of course had to be challenged, The system of having weaker one pocket players pay less entry fees only creates more Dead Money!
Last I really couldn't care what rules you decide because in the long run they won't have any meaningful effect on the state of One Pocket. Sappo/Keith
I agree and have always thought that this format was nothing but a ruse to gather up more "dead money" to gain the interest of the better players at the expense of players that have no chance of even getting into the money.
 

gulfportdoc

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
11,891
From
Gulfport, Mississippi
I have mixed feelings about establishing handicap systems. In the '90s in Calif., the NPL got a lot of traction. It was mostly the well designed brain child of Bob Jewett, and was used in quite a number of rooms, against an overall aggregate. It was skewed toward the average player, and was based upon games won/lost, which assured simplicity. If a guy won a tournament his handicap jumped to where it was extremely difficult to win a match against a weak player, oftentimes giving up a 9ball game spot like 7-2. So the average participating player in that regard pretty much had no desire to improve his game.

OTOH handicaps in golf as I understand them are designed to make players equal, not just to make a weaker player have a better chance at beating a stronger player. So a scratch golfer should have only an equal chance at winning (or losing) against an 18 handicapper. Of course the golf handicap system is highly organized, with thousands of golf courses across the country participating. Most golfers strive to improve. If they do, their handicap still gives them an equal chance in competition.

I suppose the style of handicapping chosen depends upon the entity's intention as to whom ought to have the advantage, or whether the aim is to make for an equal playing field. In my experience it's noted that in equal handicapped systems the pros and other top players are unlikely to participate since they do not have an advantage. And in the case of better player skewed events the very weak players do not tend to participate because they have no chance at all. Naturally in the case of a huge open event like the DCC some players will enter simply in the hope that they get to play a top player for very little outlay, and to have a memorable story to tell their friends. But that's not usually the case in local or regional events.
 
Last edited:

darmoose

Verified Member
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
2,351
From
Baltimore, MD
It"s been quite a few years since I have played golf, but unless it has changed...the formula for calculating one's handicap in golf is.....

avg your scores and subtract par score from your aaverage... and then take 80% of that...

so.....avg of 90 less par of 72 gives you a 18 differential, multiplied by .80 = 14.4 hndcp..... :)
 

lll

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
17,646
From
vero beach fl
i played i 2 seniors one pocket tournaments
did i have a chance in either?......NO
so why did i bother and "waste" the money?
i am glad you asked..... o_O
it was an adventure
i met new acquaintances
i knew several members would be there
i wanted to "test" myself as i get little chance to play onepocket at that time
i could list a few more but i wont bore you
we have local 9/10 ball tournaments
i have no chance to place in the money most of the time
but i get to test myself with some pressure on the line
i dont mind being "dead" money as i do get value for what i pay
its just not "taking off the tournament"
you guys that play well and gamble well see things from a different perspective than i do
so keith/sappo
handicapped or not / fee based on skill or not
i would bet there are alot of people like me
that rather than go to a movie or out to a nice dinner would rather spend their money being dead money in a pool tournament....😱
jmho
icbw
 

catkins

Verified Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2016
Messages
1,603
From
boulder creek ca
there is only one reason for handicaps and that is to increase parrticipation of weaker players. That means in my eyes that if you are not handicapping strongly in favor of the weaker player tah nyour not helping th eroom at all wich is the only reason to have handicap tournies
 

Fanatic

Verified Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
578
Hey just some thoughts...although I saw you posted a few things, I don’t see a very big presence on Facebook...all the newer players you’re after are there. Facebook is everything to the 30-60 age group...Whatever you do you should bump up your posts. At least post 3/4 times a week..unfortunately it’s the way it is in this era....people need constant reminding. BTW why are you a group to join and not a flat out page?..you may get more action if you’re just a regular page. I hate joining groups. I’m sure I’m not alone. Just throwing it out there
 
  • Like
Reactions: lll

Scrzbill

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
4,258
From
Eagles Rest, Wa
Bobble Heads! Who would not want a Bobble Head of Mitch the Beast, Gulf Port “Doc”, Da Pilot, Da Barber, Gentleman John. Signed Photos. Collect them all!
One of my favorites, Dr Fauci. I’m waiting on my Ruth Ginsburg.
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    2.4 MB · Views: 8

jrhendy

Verified Member
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
5,331
From
Placerville, CA
Hi John, I don't disagree with you. All Im saying is if an event is handicapped properly, meaning when a player should get say 10-6 from a stronger player and he gets that spot he should have an equal change to win and advance. Which means if handicapped properly all players have an equal chance of cashing or winning the tournament. Whereas a tournament where the weaker player pays less to enter that weaker player does not have fair chance to advance and probably will never cash or win under that structure. Therefore he is dead money. If you were a weaker player would you rather get the fair weight from each better player you faced and have a fair chance to cash or would you rather save a few dollars on the entry fee and never or rarely cash??? Happy Holidays Keith
Arizona had a one pocket handicapping system for years, and they may still have it. I know I played in it a couple times and it seemed fair, but I suspect it took some time to work it out. I am not against anything that promotes one pocket, but I think Steve is right with a max handicap percentage. We all took a little the worst of it while we were learning.

Happy Holidays to you and yours too.
 

NH Steve

Administrator
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
10,719
From
New Hampshire
Hey just some thoughts...although I saw you posted a few things, I don’t see a very big presence on Facebook...all the newer players you’re after are there. Facebook is everything to the 30-60 age group...Whatever you do you should bump up your posts. At least post 3/4 times a week..unfortunately it’s the way it is in this era....people need constant reminding. BTW why are you a group to join and not a flat out page?..you may get more action if you’re just a regular page. I hate joining groups. I’m sure I’m not alone. Just throwing it out there
Yes, you are right, more would be better. As for "page" vs "group" -- ha -- I am not facebook smart enough to know the difference lol.
 

cincy_kid

Verified Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
6,869
From
Northern KY
Yes, you are right, more would be better. As for "page" vs "group" -- ha -- I am not facebook smart enough to know the difference lol.
I think those are great ideas too Fanatic! Even though I am in that age group, I never got into any of the social media sites but I think John Crabb and some others maintain the FB group so I am sure they know how to or can find out how to add a page for one pocket. I guess I didn't realize there was no FB page that existed already, thanks for the suggestions!
 

Fanatic

Verified Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
578
Yes, you are right, more would be better. As for "page" vs "group" -- ha -- I am not facebook smart enough to know the difference lol.
Lol I hear you. Wish I could help but I’m just an addictive user😂 Unfortunately I spend way too much time there but I do get my news, gossip, birthdays and messages all in one place...so it’s a matter of convenience. Maybe you can find one of the younger kids to help you out in that department. Can’t hurt to ask them for guidance or at the very least some tips and advice.
 

cincy_kid

Verified Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
6,869
From
Northern KY
if you want to move the majority of this site to face book you will find it becomes lost. it will morph into just another facebook site with most participants less interested in the game but rather in just being part of the group with little moderation.
i know ill be gone and bet my ass doc will too. i dont know about the others though.
this site is unique as it is.
I don't think the onepocket.org forums/website will ever go away here beatle.

The facebook page (like the current facebook group) would be an additional resource that enthusiasts or anyone can use to learn more about One Pocket. Just like most organizations have, in addition to a website, they also have social media pages like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube channel, etc. As you know I am not a facebook fan either, but for those who are on it all the time, why not have a good presence? In my opinion, whatever media we can use to attract more players, more fans, more sponsors for the sport is win win for all!

Just like another resource we have, a Discord server where people can pop in and ask questions or hang and chat. One of these days, it will become more popular as most days its just me and Sheldon hanging in there although more recently we have PoolDawg and pepijn_dw hanging as well! :)

1638220992506.png

Most here have joined the server before, they end up not see anything happening right away and leave shortly after. It's meant to be more of a chat room so you hang out in there and idle. People can send you direct private messages and you can also chat in the main room. If you come hang out, you probably want to change your notification settings to only notify you when you get mentioned so your phone or computer doesn't "ding" too much.

Here is a link again if interested: https://discord.gg/AxgqKaWY
 

Jeff sparks

Verified Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
3,235
From
Houston, Texas
Advertise the game of one pocket as the game it truly is.... the greatest game that’s ever been played on a pool table...
offer up onepocket.org as “THE” learning base in this advertisement and prove it by having instructors/mentors available for questioning at certain hours of everyday.... Get the GHOST back and have him post WWYD’s on a weekly basis to create interest and stimulate learning the game from all the interesting choices that are offered up by our membership...
If you want to promote the game of one pocket, you must get the attention of people who are already interested in the game of pool... apply the advertising in appropriate venues!
 

Fanatic

Verified Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
578
if you want to move the majority of this site to face book you will find it becomes lost. it will morph into just another facebook site with most participants less interested in the game but rather in just being part of the group with little moderation.
i know ill be gone and bet my ass doc will too. i dont know about the others though.
this site is unique as it is.
I’m in no way suggesting we move over to Facebook but it can be used as free advertisement for the site. The more you post there, the more traffic you’ll get here. One Pocket has a demographic and that age group is mostly on Facebook today. If you post snippets of past threads, old WWYDs, or interesting stories I think you’ll entice people to check the site out. Posting regularly is key. You have to constantly remind people of your existence.
 

crabbcatjohn

Verified Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
4,222
From
Benton, Ky.
I think those are great ideas too Fanatic! Even though I am in that age group, I never got into any of the social media sites but I think John Crabb and some others maintain the FB group so I am sure they know how to or can find out how to add a page for one pocket. I guess I didn't realize there was no FB page that existed already, thanks for the suggestions!
Facebook isn't as active as it needs to be. It was also created very late in the game so we are behind in members. But its still more active than here. My understanding is a page is more of a business presence for announcements and information, where a group is more interactive among its members. They are basically the same thing but labeled and ran a little different. You need to be approved by one of our administrators join our Facebook group. That is common to keep the spammers down which happens often.. but one of us normally approves new members within mins.
 
Top