Snooker ball action, vs pool ball, vs 3 cushion balls.

Billy Jackets

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First off, let me say , I have very limited 3 cushion experience.
My question is ........ why do the balls react so much differently at the 3 different diameters? They are all rebounding off an equally sized ball ? I would like to just focus on ball to ball reactions in this thread , someone can explain the rails later if they like.
 

lll

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are you sure they rebound different? prior to rail contact
a half ball hit isnt a 30 degree cut for all 3?
i am asking as i dont know
 

Billy Jackets

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It sure seems like they do, could just be my imagination, it runs amuck quite often. Especially on draw and follow shots.
 

jrhendy

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One of my problems when I play three cushion is the cue ball goes with the English instead of deflecting. I usually use extreme English and I usually hit the object ball a little thicker than I want until I make an adjustment. Maybe someone else knows why, but I think it’s the weight of the billiard balls compared to the pool balls. Or maybe it’s the composition of the balls. Let’s hear some ideas.

When I play golf on a snooker table I try to use center ball unless I am fairly close.
 

Miller

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i grew up on a 10' snooker table (used to be a lot of them in southern/southeastern Illinois). there is no doubt that our modern phenolic pool balls are "livelier" than snooker balls. maybe its the mass. maybe cueing plays into it as well - snooker is primarily a center ball vertical axis game (of course there are exceptions).
 

darmoose

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The snooker cue, the pool cue, and the billiard cue are all different. Must be for a reason. Don't know if that has something to do with it or not. Also while snooker uses little english, pool uses all types of english, follow and draw,.....and billiards seems to use mostly inside or running english. This seems likely to have something to do with it, outside of the weight and mass of the different balls.......bottom line.......I dunno..... :unsure:
 

gulfportdoc

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It seems to me that there would be no difference in terms of physics between cuesports balls of equal size, weight and composition. It would be interesting to hear from an engineer or physicist on the subject.

In terms of cue stick, a 13 mm tip on a 19 ounce cue is going to cause a different reaction from a 2-1/4" snooker cueball, in contrast to using a 10 mm tip on a 15 ounce cue, when using anything but center ball, because of the difference in their masses. ICBW, but it seems logical to me.
 
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sorackem

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Do pool, carom and snooker balls all have th same relative mass for their size?
Does the tip stay on the ball a millisecond longer on a heavier ball?
What would be the difference in surface profile - footprint on the cloth? I would guess the surface friction would be one of the least impacting differences, or does this difference mean less deflection on a larger ball?
- If there were no gravity and no surface friction would the ball just travel in the exact same direction as the cue momentum regardless of off-center hit?
 

cincy_kid

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Not sure on ball to ball reactions but it seems like you can get the most english on a billiard ball then a pool ball and finally the snooker cb, so it does seem size related. That's all I got! :)
 

HowardK

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It is interesting to compare all 3 games. The table sizes although 2 X 1 are 5 X 10 for billiards, 6 X 12 for snooker and 4 1/2 X 9 for pool. If the balls are of the same composition and weight, they should all react the same. However, due to the size and mass of each ball, the English applied will react differently. In addition, the cloth used on the tables of each sport will cause additional "grab" or "slide". The cushions used for all 3 games are also different. You will see that using a 3 cushion lag on a pool table will come up shorter than that on a billiard table. In addition, the cues used for all 3 games are different also. The billiard cue is shorter and stiffer. Typically with an 11 mm tip. The snooker cue is also stiffer as they use ash for the shaft wood. It also uses a smaller tip as the balls are smaller. The pool cue normally has a 12.5 - 13 mm tip with a softer shaft for better draw.

It is difficult to determine the one cause of why a pool, snooker and billiard] balls react so differently. I believe it is a combination of all of the above factors.
 

Billy Jackets

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Good, I'm not the only one that doesn't know, lol.
I'm anxious to hear what Dr. Dave has to say, I know some physics experts have written books on the action of billiard balls , but I don't have the time to research all that. Thanks everyone for your input.
 

mr3cushion

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A snooker ball is 54 mm in diam. and weighs, 142 grams. the cloth is the heaviest of the 3 games. Snooker cues are the stiffest, with 9mm - 11 mm tip size, and 140 cm in length.

A pool ball is 57 mm, weighs in at between, 156-170 grams, cloths pretty much weigh the same. In pool there are so many sizes now days, it's hard to get a standard.

A carom balls are, 60.5 - 61.5 mm and weighs, 205-220, depending on Carom or 3C, the cloth is the lightest/thinnest, with 300 threads per inch. A carom/3C cue shaft is anywhere from, 11.5 (Carom games) - 11.8 - 12 mm for 3C. The lengths being, 68 cm - 71 cm.

A Billiard ball will keep it's English longest of all! A few factors, the cloth being most important, thin/light. The combination of largest ball and correct tip size and 3C players being used to applying, 'Extreme' 3/9 O'clock English keeps the CB spinning the longest. Several years ago, someone at, Chris's timed my CB spin on a New cloth, it lasted over a minute.
 
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Nick B

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It's a function of rail construction and height. Snooker rail facings are flat. Unlike the pointed nose style of pool/3c.

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gulfportdoc

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It would still be illuminating if we could get Jewett's or Dr. Dave's input here. My guess is that all sized cuesports balls would act the exact same at collision, relative to their size, if they were the identical composition, and were tested on the same cloth.

Naturally once various cloths and rail types are added into the mix, there's going to be a difference.
 

Billy Jackets

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It would still be illuminating if we could get Jewett's or Dr. Dave's input here. My guess is that all sized cuesports balls would act the exact same at collision, relative to their size, if they were the identical composition, and were tested on the same cloth.

Naturally once various cloths and rail types are added into the mix, there's going to be a difference.
It seems logical, that Newtons Third Law would apply , but the practical applications I have seen , seem to say no.
It is probably some factor, not taken into consideration, on my part.
Although I find it hard to believe, I would ever be mistaken.
 

Billy Jackets

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you can get spin to last longer on a basket ball than a base ball. get it.

and less friction cloth will keep it going longer.
I think I understand the cloth part , the baseball basketball thing is a bit confusing. Is it because it is bigger? rubber vs leather? hollow? Please elucidate.
 
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