Slept balls and when to respot

[Nick B]

I'm sure this has been addressed before but maybe my small Canadian brain cannot absorb the topic...so humor me.

Scenario 1:
Player A owes a ball and has one or more in his tray. Player B shoots and after NOT MAKING A BALL (it's now Player A's turn) they realize that "A" owes. When does it spot?

Scenario 2: Player B makes a ball and is about to shoot again and they discover error. When does it spot?

Scenario 2B: Player B makes last ball on the table and is still shooting but has run out of balls and "needs" ball spotted to continue?

Scenario 3: Player B shoots (A still owes but nobody realizes). Player A shoots and scores (and is still shooting). Then they realize. What happens?

Thx in advance.

 

[crabbcatjohn]

#1. After player A's turn. You can't spot your slept ball before your turn.
#2 still his shot, spot his ball so he can continue.
#3 spot his ball after his turn

 

[cincy_kid]

Someone correct me if I am wrong but typically when you realize one player owes a ball, you spot it after the player who owes a ball shoots again. So in your scenarios:

1) Player A shoots their shot and then spots the ball they owe.
2) Player B continues their inning, then player A shoots again, then the ball spots
2B) No clue but I dont think this can happen, player A would have already won if there are no balls on the table.
3) Player A finishes their inning and then spots the opwed ball

That's how I think it goes Nick but icbw.

 

[crabbcatjohn]

#2 Chris.
1 need 9 and don't have any, your going to 8 and you have 7 in your tray . My shot and I've made 8 so far this turn and I need 1 more.

 

[Nick B]

Thx for replies...just to confirm.

Scenario 2: Player B makes a ball and is about to shoot again and they discover error. When does it spot?
----What happens here

 

[Bob Jewett]

This is covered by the official rules on this website. Here's the rule:

9.4 If any owed balls, or balls that have fallen into a neutral pocket are forgotten and later remembered, then instead of being spotted after the current shooter’s inning, they are spotted after the end of the next player’s inning, unless there are no balls left on the table, in which case they are all spotted immediately. In any case, any owed balls are not forgiven, but still must be paid.​

​

In practice, forgotten balls may be spotted at any time after they are remembered, as long as both players agree on the timing; if either player objects to an earlier spotting, then rule 9.4 should be followed.​

​

Please note that playing ‘snooze you lose’ is the rare exception in house rules; it is by no means the standard rule, and it should only be accepted when it is clearly and mutually agreed on by both players before play begins.​

​

It does take a little careful reading to answer the OPs questions, but I think the rule answers the questions.

 

[sorackem]

Player A owes a ball and has one or more in his tray. Player B shoots and after NOT MAKING A BALL (it's now Player A's turn) they realize that "A" owes. When does it spot?

they are spotted after the end of the next player’s inning, unless there are no balls left on the table,

I imagine this 'after the next player' thinking is so that a slept ball does not inadvertently become a nightmare for the outgoing player; suddenly finding his safe shot is set-up to play off a spotted ball.

 

[lll]

I imagine this 'after the next player' thinking is so that a slept ball does not inadvertently become a nightmare for the outgoing player; suddenly finding his safe shot is set-up to play off a spotted ball.

it also is done so that the slept ball is not spotted at a "convenient" time
like when spotting it would block a shot

 

[lll]

9.4 If any owed balls, or balls that have fallen into a neutral pocket are forgotten and later remembered, then instead of being spotted after the current shooter’s inning, they are spotted after the end of the next player’s inning,
'''''''''''''''
i remember this as 2 innings must pass unless both agree

 

[vapros]

I believe that no ball is spotted until after both players have had a turn at the table, knowing that a ball was coming up.

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

I deleted this post. So, ignore this post! I see it has been replied to, but it is meaningless to the subject, for I confused this with rule 11.2. w/ 9.4
My Bad.
Whitey

 

[Scrzbill]

I know when I forget my balls, there is no such thing as snooze you lose.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I will tell you this; in our rule committee we are aggressively defining this. It is a very hard rule to write. ...

I think it's not hard to write at all. How about:

After the error is noticed, each player will get one full turn and then all slept balls will spot. If the table is cleared, all balls to be spotted will be spotted at that time.

 

[NH Steve]

I think it's not hard to write at all. How about:

After the error is noticed, each player will get one full turn and then all slept balls will spot. If the table is cleared, all balls to be spotted will be spotted at that time.

I suppose, the word "next" in our rules might be considered a little vague -- or maybe it is "current shooter" that is vague. But if it is your turn at the table, and you are either just about to start shooting, or you if you have already shot and made a ball and are continuing your inning, either way, your opponent would be the "next" player, am I right? So that is either one full inning by each player or it is the continuation of the current shooter's inning and then the other ("next") player's full inning. So essentially our existing wording is saying the same thing -- both players get a shot before the spot -- except you are saying if the current shooter is mid-inning when it is discovered, an entire additional inning would need to be played. I think that is unnecessary for sure, and likely to cause further forgetting before that many innings come up I stand by our existing wording -- even though it only references the "next" player's inning, both players still get to shoot once before the ball is spotted. Done deal.

9.4 If any owed balls, or balls that have fallen into a neutral pocket are forgotten and later remembered, then instead of being spotted after the current shooter’s inning, they are spotted after the end of the next player’s inning,

 

[sorackem]

Once slept ball(s) are discovered two players must complete a full inning at the table - - unless no more balls on the table etc.

 

[NH Steve]

I based this “next” on Grady’s “each player shoots once“. A player in the middle of their inning, if that’s when the error is discovered, does shoot at least once in continuation of their inning. Some of you want them to go ahead and complete that inning with however many shots they are entitled to by making more balls in their hole and then you want the opponent to shoot an inning and then you come back to the original shooter and he shoots a full inning? That’s definitely too much! And you could have a point that the ball comes up after the wrong player finishes their inning because you waited so long.

 

[lll]

See post #9

 

[NH Steve]

See post #9

Meaning??

 

[NH Steve]

It’s only two totally full innings if it is discovered in between innings. If shooter A makes a ball in their own pocket and then it is suddenly agreed that a ball was slept while player A’s inning is still live, player A “shoots” until their inning ends — that’s one player shooting — then player B “shoots” their full inning. Then the ball spots. That’s it — both players shot with full knowledge of a ball having been slept and due for spotting. Why on earth would you need to extend to 2-1/2 innings?

 

[NH Steve]

I see this is the way the rules committee now has it worded in our proposed re-write of the rules. If the discovery is announced mid-inning, then the player mid-inning gets to shoot as they finish their inning, then the "next" player shoots. Then the ball spots. There is nothing that suggests a mid-inning announcement makes it 2-1/2 innings. If there is, we need a re-write lol. Thank God we have the consent to waive clause!

9.4 When to spot forgotten balls: If any owed balls, or balls that have fallen into a neutral pocket are forgotten and later remembered, then they are spotted after each player has shot once, unless there are no balls left on the table, in which case they are all spotted immediately. In any case, any owed balls are not forgiven, but still must be paid. As long as there is full consent, players may agree to waive 9.4 and spot forgotten balls at any time they are remembered.