shane /gentile 72635

gulfportdoc

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I like Cardone's shot, but I don't believe the 13 pockets cross-corner. Doesn't matter. At pocket speed it's still a good leave. But I'd be trying to use a little more inside english so as to knock the 14 up table on the way back with the CB. Simply leaving the CB player long, unless it lays on the head rail, is not going to deter a good player, especially on nice dry equipment.

If the angle for that shot is wrong, the obvious shot would be like Sappo's. Presumably the 6 won't go, so I too would roll it down toward the pocket and try to drift the CB between the rail and 3 ball. That's jail. No good escape.:cool:

SVB might shoot the 8, but it's too chancy for Doc...;)

~Doc
 

wincardona

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I like Cardone's shot, but I don't believe the 13 pockets cross-corner. Doesn't matter. At pocket speed it's still a good leave. But I'd be trying to use a little more inside english so as to knock the 14 up table on the way back with the CB. Simply leaving the CB player long, unless it lays on the head rail, is not going to deter a good player, especially on nice dry equipment.

If the angle for that shot is wrong, the obvious shot would be like Sappo's. Presumably the 6 won't go, so I too would roll it down toward the pocket and try to drift the CB between the rail and 3 ball. That's jail. No good escape.:cool:

SVB might shoot the 8, but it's too chancy for Doc...;)

~Doc

You're correct the 13ball can't go but my description of the bank angle was used specifically only as a reference on the angle that's available. The 13ball will go toward the 5ball hopefully knocking the 5ball toward the pocket. I like positioning the cue ball up table near the rail center diamond, let him go from there.

Dr. Bill
 

Tom Wirth

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I will offer still another shot which I feel can pay great dividends. Lag the six to the foot rail and roll the cue ball softly onto the ten and three balls. The angle look to be perfect. This sets the trap without any risk at all to the shooter. It is also very easy to execute.

Tom

Keith, I just noticed this was your choice of shot. So, yes, I agree with you.
 
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wincardona

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I will offer still another shot which I feel can pay great dividends. Lag the six to the foot rail and roll the cue ball softly onto the ten and three balls. The angle look to be perfect. This sets the trap without any risk at all to the shooter. It is also very easy to execute.

Tom
Tom, that was Keith's option in post 18. There are a few other options other than the 8ball option that are viable. The 8ball option is going all in, too tough of a shot for me to go all in when there are other good options. It would be different if that was the only possible winning option, which it's not. Yes your and Keiths option with playing the 6ball and laying on the 10ball is strong and worthy of shooting.

Dr. Bill
 

Tom Wirth

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Tom, that was Keith's option in post 18. There are a few other options other than the 8ball option that are viable. The 8ball option is going all in, too tough of a shot for me to go all in when there are other good options. It would be different if that was the only possible winning option, which it's not. Yes your and Keiths option with playing the 6ball and laying on the 10ball is strong and worthy of shooting.

Dr. Bill

Yes Bill, I noticed too late that Keith was ahead of me here and I had stepped on his shot. My apologies Keith. I have a bad habit of skimming through the replies and missed it that time.

The shot seemed obvious to me.

Tom
 

wincardona

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Larry, this is a very good wwyd, there are many things to be concerned with with all the different options, good post.

Dr. Bill
 

lll

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Larry, this is a very good wwyd, there are many things to be concerned with with all the different options, good post.

Dr. Bill
thanks bill
you guys have all night to discuss it ....:D
since the answer is on my computer in the office
which i wont get to till tomorrow.....:sorry
have a good night all
us old farts have to go to bed..:eek:.:)
 

wincardona

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thanks bill
you guys have all night to discuss it ....:D
since the answer is on my computer in the office
which i wont get to till tomorrow.....:sorry
have a good night all
us old farts have to go to bed..:eek:.:)[/QUOTE

After listening to all the posters i would like to say that considering how the balls are laying shooting the 8ball is not the option to choose. I think that Keith's and Tom's option with shooting the 6ball and trapping the cue ball near the 10ball ranks very high because of the simplicity and trapping value the option offers. I still like banking the 13ball and positioning the cue ball top rail center but not as much as the 6ball option. This option (13ball)
carries a higher degree of execution but still very viable.

Dr. Bill
 
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onepockethacker

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Between banking the 13 and rolling the 6 down you have to look at your opponents possible replies to both shots.. banking the 13 ball and bringing the cue ball back up table to the center as Billy suggested is easy to execute and you are able to use the 6 ball as your blocker.. does anyone think your opponent is really going to like shooting the 14 ball up 5 to 0..
rolling the 6 down by the pocket I see a few things that can go bad.. if you leave your opponent the ability to bank the 3 ball and freeze you on the 10 ball your dead.. If you lay the cue on the 3 and 10 balls your opponent will double bank the 14 ball back to his side and play the cue ball to the top right corner pocket.. if your return shot to that is to bank the 13 or 14 you no longer have the 6 ball where it was to block him, so after your bank your opponent will be able to get at any balls by your pocket... now then lets say you roll the 6 down to the right of the pocket and you bury the cue ball between the 3 ball and the rail(which is your goal) if your opponent takes an intentional near the top right corner pocket doubling you up on the 10/2, what will your reply be? just curious...... i guess it would depend on where you position the 6 ball.. if you are able to both bury the cue ball and leave the 6 ball where it is makeable from up table I like the option alot..
 
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beatle

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well if the 6 goes then shoot it in. thats the shot.

the shooting the six into the rail and hiding the cueball is too risky for me as to play a safe which gets you little and risk selling out if you miss it some and dont hide the cueball, usually is reserved when you have little choice.

i tend to play the score more than others that i see, and maybe i am wrong. but those that are doing all the winning are shooting balls in the pocket. you have to get 8 of them and everytime you pass the shot he gets to do something back at you.

the cross bank doesnt give much in my thinking and you have to use inside english and enough to miss the kiss and come back at least straight but really more than that. hitting the 14 on the way back turns the cue ball loose and i dont like that. then you have to get your speed right or he gets an easy shot. after all this you havent made life for him too bad after all.

shooting the 8 in will turn the game around if you make it. and maybe not even give him a shot if you dont.
 

wincardona

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well if the 6 goes then shoot it in. thats the shot.

the shooting the six into the rail and hiding the cueball is too risky for me as to play a safe which gets you little and risk selling out if you miss it some and dont hide the cueball, usually is reserved when you have little choice.

i tend to play the score more than others that i see, and maybe i am wrong. but those that are doing all the winning are shooting balls in the pocket. you have to get 8 of them and everytime you pass the shot he gets to do something back at you.

the cross bank doesnt give much in my thinking and you have to use inside english and enough to miss the kiss and come back at least straight but really more than that. hitting the 14 on the way back turns the cue ball loose and i dont like that. then you have to get your speed right or he gets an easy shot. after all this you havent made life for him too bad after all.

shooting the 8 in will turn the game around if you make it. and maybe not even give him a shot if you dont.

It's amazing how differently people feel about certain positions, i guess that's what makes this game so interesting. You say crossing the 13ball doesn't do much, I disagree. You say if you miss the kiss, i say there's no kiss, not close. You say that shooting the 8ball you either make it and have a chance to win or if you miss it you don't have to give up a shot, you're correct. However if you shoot the 8ball and happen to miss it you're giving up your strong position for sure and could very easily lose from there so you're putting yourself all in with the choice.
.

Opinions, we all have one, that's the great thing about this game.

Dr. Bill
 

beatle

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good reply bill.


sure there is no kiss if you hit it decently, as a pro will do every time. but the kiss is there for both a thin hit or a too thick of a hit. which can happen for many players putting alot of inside on the shot. although that type of kiss frequently will also send the ball toward your hole.

if you dont put alot and go inside to the rail and out so you bypass the 14 you stand a chance of hitting it. too me anyway that can be a disaster.

if the pocket was open it would be a no brainer as that cross bank is almost a duck to at least hang it if you miss.

my preference is because of the score. and with being down 5 zip you lose most of those games anyway so passing on an opportunity that may not come again is lost chances.
 

wincardona

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good reply bill.


sure there is no kiss if you hit it decently, as a pro will do every time. but the kiss is there for both a thin hit or a too thick of a hi
t. which can happen for many players putting alot of inside on the shot. although that type of kiss frequently will also send the ball toward your hole.

if you dont put alot and go inside to the rail and out so you bypass the 14 you stand a chance of hitting it. too me anyway that can be a disaster.

if the pocket was open it would be a no brainer as that cross bank is almost a duck to at least hang it if you miss.

my preference is because of the score. and with being down 5 zip you lose most of those games anyway so passing on an opportunity that may not come again is lost chances.

Imo what you're over looking is that your position will yield better offensive options then that are presented here, your opponent will be playing all defense and you should come up with something much better than the 8ball option.

Dr. Bill
 

Tom Wirth

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well if the 6 goes then shoot it in. thats the shot.

the shooting the six into the rail and hiding the cueball is too risky for me as to play a safe which gets you little and risk selling out if you miss it some and dont hide the cueball, usually is reserved when you have little choice.

i tend to play the score more than others that i see, and maybe i am wrong. but those that are doing all the winning are shooting balls in the pocket. you have to get 8 of them and everytime you pass the shot he gets to do something back at you.

the cross bank doesnt give much in my thinking and you have to use inside english and enough to miss the kiss and come back at least straight but really more than that. hitting the 14 on the way back turns the cue ball loose and i dont like that. then you have to get your speed right or he gets an easy shot. after all this you havent made life for him too bad after all.

shooting the 8 in will turn the game around if you make it. and maybe not even give him a shot if you dont.

good reply bill.


sure there is no kiss if you hit it decently, as a pro will do every time. but the kiss is there for both a thin hit or a too thick of a hit. which can happen for many players putting alot of inside on the shot. although that type of kiss frequently will also send the ball toward your hole.

if you dont put alot and go inside to the rail and out so you bypass the 14 you stand a chance of hitting it. too me anyway that can be a disaster.

if the pocket was open it would be a no brainer as that cross bank is almost a duck to at least hang it if you miss.

my preference is because of the score. and with being down 5 zip you lose most of those games anyway so passing on an opportunity that may not come again is lost chances.

Beatle, It seems to me you are taking a rather fatalistic view of this situation in thinking that by setting up a "move" you are giving your opponent an opportunity to out-move you and beat you to the open shot. Hence, fire away while you can. In many instances you would be correct in that thinking but I don't think so here. You will never out-move an opponent if you continually bypass good opportunities to trap in favor of shooting at your hole with shots like that eight ball. Now if you make the shot on the eight, all is well and you will probably win the game from there but all your eggs are in that one basket and if you fail to make it you must now rely on pure luck to survive the miss.

The cross bank on the thirteen is a fine beginning to trapping your opponent and it will likely place him in a position where he must perform from a very challenging position. The lag shot on the six ball is also a fine trapping shot and will do the same thing. With either of these two shots you are giving your opponent an excellent opportunity to fail and sell out something easy.

One Pocket players seek ways to trap and secure easy shots, then they shoot to run out. Rotation players with limited one pocket experience are far less patient, and just look to run out.

Tom
 
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gulfportdoc

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... now then lets say you roll the 6 down to the right of the pocket and you bury the cue ball between the 3 ball and the rail(which is your goal) if your opponent takes an intentional near the top right corner pocket doubling you up on the 10/2, what will your reply be? just curious...... i guess it would depend on where you position the 6 ball.. if you are able to both bury the cue ball and leave the 6 ball where it is makeable from up table I like the option alot..
That's the shot I suggested in post #21. Leaving the CB trapped between the rail and 3 ball is preferable to leaving it by the 3 and 10 balls. I think the shot is easier to control, and leaves almost no return except an intentional, which would then put Gentile at 4-0.

If he were to roll the CB up to his head corner pocket, then Shane would have to do something with the 14 or 13 balls. He'd probably bank the 13. But it's put him in a very difficult position.

Anyway the 6 ball/safety is what I'd do. SVB probably did something completely else. Although if the players were reversed, I'd bet that Gentile would take the safety.;)


~Doc
 

Jeff sparks

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That's the shot I suggested in post #21. Leaving the CB trapped between the rail and 3 ball is preferable to leaving it by the 3 and 10 balls. I think the shot is easier to control, and leaves almost no return except an intentional, which would then put Gentile at 4-0.

If he were to roll the CB up to his head corner pocket, then Shane would have to do something with the 14 or 13 balls. He'd probably bank the 13. But it's put him in a very difficult position.

Anyway the 6 ball/safety is what I'd do. SVB probably did something completely else. Although if the players were reversed, I'd bet that Gentile would take the safety.;)


~Doc

I like this shot, only question is the speed? Probably doesn't matter, but it looks like the 6 isn't going to stay near the pocket/ foot rail, with the speed required to advance the CB between the 3 ball and the rail. Like I said, probably doesn't matter, it's the trapping of the CB that's big with this shot.
 

onepockethacker

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That's the shot I suggested in post #21. Leaving the CB trapped between the rail and 3 ball is preferable to leaving it by the 3 and 10 balls. I think the shot is easier to control, and leaves almost no return except an intentional, which would then put Gentile at 4-0.

If he were to roll the CB up to his head corner pocket, then Shane would have to do something with the 14 or 13 balls. He'd probably bank the 13. But it's put him in a very difficult position.

Anyway the 6 ball/safety is what I'd do. SVB probably did something completely else. Although if the players were reversed, I'd bet that Gentile would take the safety.;)


~Doc

I think this WWYD more than any others depends on skill set and confidence level at the time... Gentile is a really conservative player so he would not shoot the 8 here for sure.. there is a video when Gentile and Schmidt were playing an ahead set at Derby and one game came down to last ball and if you see the shot Gentile passed up and instead played safe you wouldnt believe it.
 

onepockethacker

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what you gain trapping off the 6 ball you lose blocking value in subsequent innings.. part of what makes the 13 ball bank a good option is when the cue ball is back up table the 6 ball blocks your opponent from getting at any balls by your pocket.. so there are pros and cons to both options... i guess its whatever suits your fancy.. this was a really good WWYD with alot of options... usually when someone is down 5 to 0 there are not this many choices, in this case the balls lay in such a way that there are.
 
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