Ruling of serious fouls

[Longhorn1]

I was playing out scenarios of end game possibilities and came across a few situations that need clear explanations for penalties.
1. trapping cue ball with your tip against the inside of a pocket or rail. It’s always been my understanding that it is a one ball penalty as well as ball in hand behind the head string. CSI spelled it out clearly on there website but one pocket.org leaves it up to players and referee.
2. Shooting a ball in the kitchen to get it down table or make it to spot. What’s the penalty

I would hope that others have addressed this in the past but can’t find anything threads on these subjects

 

[J.R.]

#1. trapping cue ball with your tip against the inside of a pocket or rail. It’s always been my understanding that it is a one ball penalty as well as ball in hand behind the head string. CSI spelled it out clearly on there website but one pocket.org leaves it up to players and referee.

In response, I believe that onepocket.org has successfully addressed the scenario of how to deal with a player trapping a cue ball with the tip of his cue stick against the inside facing of a pocket under "rule 6.6.1 use of an illegal technique" and "rule 6.6.2 serious fouls." The two rules in question are italicized and listed word for word.

6.6.1 Use of an illegal technique: However, if the shooter applies an illegal technique to their advantage, such as pushing, intentionally double-hitting, use of anything other than the cue tip to shoot, or an illegal prolonged cue contact to wedge/trap, direct or redirect the cue ball or any object balls, such as within the stack or jawed pocket, these acts are considered serious fouls. The offending player may be penalized for a serious foul under the general rules of unsportsmanlike conduct. ref: 6.6.2 Serious fouls

6.6.2 Serious fouls: If the ruling is that a serious foul has occurred, in addition to the standard foul the official may further penalize a player at their discretion. If there is no official available, players will need to come to agreement themselves as to the level of penalty to assess the shooter. If it is possible to restore the balls, then the foul may be penalized (a) as a standard foul, with opponent’s option of restoration.

The following penalty levels progress from (a) through (c) depending on the seriousness of the offense, and whether the shooter has been issued a prior warning. A prior warning warrants an escalation of penalty. In this context a “prior warning” may mean a prior offense, a pre-tournament announcement or a player agreement prior to a match.

(a) Assess a standard foul penalty, and a warning to the shooter.
(b) Assess a standard foul penalty, and opponent receives the option of ball in hand.
(c) Loss of game.

In continuance of my response, onepocket.org has identified, in essence but not verbatim, under "rule 6.6.1 use of an illegal technique" that should a player employ an illegal technique to their advantage such an illegal prolonged cue contact to wedge/trap any object ball within the stack (note: how many times has a player slowly pushed the cue ball to a spot in the stack) or jawed pocket that this particular act is considered a serious foul. This brings us to "rule 6.6.2 serious fouls."

This rule states that the player who committed the use of an illegal technique under "rule 6.6.2 serious fouls" can be further penalized. The serious foul rule identifies two different occurrences. The first is by an official (tournament) such as a referee or event director and the second is by the players (gambling) themselves. In both occurrences the official (tournament) and the players (gambling) will need to come to an agreement as to the level of the penalty to assess on the shooter.

Now to the meat and potatoes of how this would apply. If a shooter uses an illegal technique, and is either aware or not aware of the serious foul rule, according to "rule 6.6.2 serious fouls (a)," the shooter is assessed a standard foul penalty and a warning is issued to the shooter that should he do it again then "rule 6.6.2 serious fouls (b)" would apply. In turn, should the shooter violate "rule 6.6.2 serious fouls" a third time then (c) would apply as a loss of game.

2. Shooting a ball in the kitchen to get it down table or make it to spot. What’s the penalty?

In response to shooting a ball in the kitchen, what is the penalty? There is no penalty because you are not permitted to shoot a ball in the kitchen.

The protocol of one pocket and other pool games is that each have certain inherent rules that outline correct conduct and procedures. One of the most accepted rules is that after a cue ball foul where the incoming player has ball in hand in the kitchen, that incoming player is not permitted to shoot directly at a ball in the kitchen. Should the incoming player want to shoot at a ball in the kitchen, then that player must shoot out of the kitchen before he can strike the ball in the kitchen.

Another example of one pocket protocol is: you're playing a race to three in a one pocket tournament and you rack and break. After the first game, it's now your opponent's turn to rack and break. However, in the first game your opponent recognizes that the corner pocket on the other end of the table has a severe roll into a particular pocket and decides to rack at the opposite end of the table and designate that as his pocket. You just don't do it.

 

[Island Drive]

The Rules are pretty clear now...... Referee has sthe ability to escalate the rules when a second incident occurs.
Allows the ref at table great latitude on their second incident, loss of game? match? turn at table? Remove a game or make that persons score -1 Or? If the player is a nit and complains/whines allot after/during the first incident, this second dose/warning should do it.
In all good fun, entrants that ''act out'' in these NIT situations always roam in a different herd. And....
They're not from KY.

 

[Longhorn1]

The Rules are pretty clear now...... Referee has sthe ability to escalate the rules when a second incident occurs.
Allows the ref at table great latitude on their second incident, loss of game? match? turn at table? Remove a game or make that persons score -1 Or? If the player is a nit and complains/whines allot after/during the first incident, this second dose/warning should do it.
In all good fun, entrants that ''act out'' in these NIT situations always roam in a different herd. And....
They're not from KY.

this is an example of rules clearly written. Gets straight to the meat and potatoes about trapping or wedging.
as for shooting ball behind the head string, I understand it’s not allowed. What’s the penalty for doing so. One ball? Restoration of the ball and owe a ball?
I think the rules can be written so to address these scenarios as clearly as CSI has.

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

During the deliberations of the rule committee the rules were opened up for comments. Each comment / suggestion I made sure they were addressed by the committee. Of those suggestions it was noted that an air bridge often times results in dropping on to the stack of balls, or when spotting a ball it could be dropped upon the stack of balls. Some felt this should be a loss of game. We floated that if 3 or more balls were disturbed then it is BIH-BTL., this had mixed reviews because only on a pocket scratch or jumped cb is a BIH-BTL awarded.

We also recognized as does many BCAPl / CSI referees that under Cue Ball Foul Only rules; if two balls are disturbed then they are not allowed to be restored. Steve immediately realized that this allows a player to make a more, as I and referees have always felt.

OP.org uses the WPA for its General Rules, but their Ball in Hand behind the Line rule was and is so horrible that we felt we needed to develop our own rule which is a throw back to how Americans / BCA historical rule is written, which has a violation is the balls are restored and BIH-BTL.

WPA's game rules include 'Serious Fouls'. A serious foul for them is a loss of game, such as; 9-Ball - 3 consecutive fouls, 8-ball - pocketing the 8 ball out of turn. WPA has not adopted the game of OP. But to stay inline with the then Standard OP Rules, then a Serious Foul would be 3 consecutive fouls is a loss of game. Steve took Serious Fouls to a different level to include certain standard fouls would fall under unsportsmanlike conduct, and in respect that there is seldom a referee available, and the fact that OP is a far more complex game than 9-ball or 8-ball.

I must add that 6.6.2 Serious Fouls is a throw back to the 2004 Official Rules that had many initialize blue print house rules. Basically they are optional ways to play the game, I call them Good Ole Boys rules. I believe Steve brought forth this ideology of the faith in players making decisions when special foul circumstances arise, because he realized that OP is mainly played daily by matching up. This is unprecedented to allow players decide among themselves the penalty, but it was voted on and the members seem in favor of it.

6.6.2 Serious Fouls umbrellas 2.4 Ball in Hand, 6.1 Cue ball foul only, 6.1.1 Restoring a Position, and 6.6.1 Wse of an illegal technique. For example to stay on the question, in 2.4 Ball in Hand when a warning is given that balls are not in playable position, and the player totally ignores the warning and shoots. Now, this could rise to unsportsmanlike conduct, and balls have moved. 6.1.1 Restoring a Position; a notification is given that balls are disturbed, but the player ignores the notification and continues shooting, an unsportsmanlike act, (very rare, I never seen this happen), Or, dropping a ball on the stack of balls, not necessarily an unsportsmanlike act but an act that the balls cannot be restored, then how do you solve it.

BCAPL / CSI Rules are a few guys that talked Griffin into letting them develop their own rules, and in some areas they did excellent, and others they fell short, but they obviously tried to be detailed for players knowledge and comprehension with the advent of their AR's. As it pertains OP and to wedging a ball within the pocket they made it a BIH foul, but historically OP played this as a restoration option. The 2004 OP.org rules had it as a restoration option as it is now.

Yes, 6.6.2 Serious Foul is convoluted / complex, but to simplify if we keep in mind that generally with these umbrella game rules it is first a restoration option. If a warning is violated, or multiple balls are illegally moved, then we go to considering a more severe penalty.

To answer your question; conventionally a game rule would be completed within the rule with the penalty laid out for the referee / player to follow. But, for the above reasons, as I can surmise, Steve went another direction to inpower players to control their own game, and made it an umbrella rule.
With a BIH-BTL violation it is first a restoration option coupled with a BIH-BTL penalty. But, if a warning was given, but ignored, then it becomes a serious foul, and thus the players have to figure out the penalty.

At the Railyard MOT players meeting, I believe johnnytronic took the Serious Foul rule to the table as it pertains to the illegally trapping a ball within the stack, and the players resolved it as being a cut and dried BIH-BTL.
Whitey

 

[cincy_kid]

this is an example of rules clearly written. Gets straight to the meat and potatoes about trapping or wedging.
as for shooting ball behind the head string, I understand it’s not allowed. What’s the penalty for doing so. One ball? Restoration of the ball and owe a ball?
I think the rules can be written so to address these scenarios as clearly as CSI has.

How can you choose a penalty when it's not permitted to do so? The shooter or opponent usually asks if it's past the line or not. If you are the opponent and they didn't ask and you didn't say anything, it must be over the line so no penalty.

If you are saying that it was determined the ball was in the kitchen but they shot it anyways, I would consider that bad sportsmanship and would call it game over like getting mad and raking the balls. It's not permitted.

 

[lll]

How can you choose a penalty when it's not permitted to do so? The shooter or opponent usually asks if it's past the line or not. If you are the opponent and they didn't ask and you didn't say anything, it must be over the line so no penalty.

If you are saying that it was determined the ball was in the kitchen but they shot it anyways, I would consider that bad sportsmanship and would call it game over like getting mad and raking the balls. It's not permitted.

lets say the opponent hit a ball OBVIOUSLY behind the line (in the kitchen)
whats the penalty then?

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

2.4 Ball in hand: Ball in hand in One Pocket is always behind the line, not anywhere on the table. All references to “ball in hand” within these rules are to be understood to mean “ball in hand behind the line”. When placing the cue ball, the whole cue ball must be placed above the head string line, and to play directly into an object ball, the whole object ball must be below the head string line. The edge of either ball cannot be in contact with the head string line. If either is not in a playable position then the referee or opponent warns the shooter and they must adjust and/or agree on the playable position prior to the shot being taken. If no warning is given then the shot stands. But, if the shooter ignores the warning and shoots then it is a serious foul, with opponent receiving ball in hand. ref: 6.6.2 Serious fouls
(b)
-----------------------
I do suggest that game rules that require a declaration in doing so speak up loud and clear and get an acknowledgement. A little weak "foul" is not going to cut it, and only leads to an argument.
Whitey

 

[Longhorn1]

During the deliberations of the rule committee the rules were opened up for comments. Each comment / suggestion I made sure they were addressed by the committee. Of those suggestions it was noted that an air bridge often times results in dropping on to the stack of balls, or when spotting a ball it could be dropped upon the stack of balls. Some felt this should be a loss of game. We floated that if 3 or more balls were disturbed then it is BIH-BTL., this had mixed reviews because only on a pocket scratch or jumped cb is a BIH-BTL awarded.

We also recognized as does many BCAPl / CSI referees that under Cue Ball Foul Only rules; if two balls are disturbed then they are not allowed to be restored. Steve immediately realized that this allows a player to make a more, as I and referees have always felt.

OP.org uses the WPA for its General Rules, but their Ball in Hand behind the Line rule was and is so horrible that we felt we needed to develop our own rule which is a throw back to how Americans / BCA historical rule is written, which has a violation is the balls are restored and BIH-BTL.

WPA's game rules include 'Serious Fouls'. A serious foul for them is a loss of game, such as; 9-Ball - 3 consecutive fouls, 8-ball - pocketing the 8 ball out of turn. WPA has not adopted the game of OP. But to stay inline with the then Standard OP Rules, then a Serious Foul would be 3 consecutive fouls is a loss of game. Steve took Serious Fouls to a different level to include certain standard fouls would fall under unsportsmanlike conduct, and in respect that there is seldom a referee available, and the fact that OP is a far more complex game than 9-ball or 8-ball.

I must add that 6.6.2 Serious Fouls is a throw back to the 2004 Official Rules that had many initialize blue print house rules. Basically they are optional ways to play the game, I call them Good Ole Boys rules. I believe Steve brought forth this ideology of the faith in players making decisions when special foul circumstances arise, because he realized that OP is mainly played daily by matching up. This is unprecedented to allow players decide among themselves the penalty, but it was voted on and the members seem in favor of it.

6.6.2 Serious Fouls umbrellas 2.4 Ball in Hand, 6.1 Cue ball foul only, 6.1.1 Restoring a Position, and 6.6.1 Restoring a position. For example to stay on the question, in 2.4 Ball in Hand when a warning is given that balls are not in playable position, and the player totally ignores the warning and shoots. Now, this could rise to unsportsmanlike conduct, and balls have moved. 6.6.1 Restoring a Position; a notification is given that balls are disturbed, but the player ignores the notification and continues shooting, an unsportsmanlike act, (very rare, I never seen this happen), Or, dropping a ball on the stack of balls, not necessarily an unsportsmanlike act but an act that the balls cannot be restored, then how do you solve it.

BCAPL / CSI Rules are a few guys that talked Griffin into letting them develop their own rules, and in some areas they did excellent, and others they fell short, but they obviously tried to be detailed for players knowledge and comprehension with the advent of their AR's. As it pertains OP and to wedging a ball within the pocket they made it a BIH foul, but historically OP played this as a restoration option. The 2004 OP.org rules had it as a restoration option as it is now.

Yes, 6.6.2 Serious Foul is convoluted / complex, but to simplify if we keep in mind that generally with these umbrella game rules it is first a restoration option. If a warning is violated, or multiple balls are illegally moved, then we go to considering a more severe penalty.

To answer your question; conventionally a game rule would be completed within the rule with the penalty laid out for the referee / player to follow. But, for the above reasons, as I can surmise, Steve went another direction to inpower players to control their own game, and made it an umbrella rule.
With a BIH-BTL violation it is first a restoration option coupled with a BIH-BTL penalty. But, if a warning was given, but ignored, then it becomes a serious foul, and thus the players have to figure out the penalty.

At the Railyard MOT players meeting, I believe johnnytronic took the Serious Foul rule to the table as it pertains to the illegally trapping a ball within the stack, and the players resolved it as being a cut and dried BIH-BTL.
Whitey

Why did I read this in Grady Mathews voice? lol. Thank you for the reply.

 

[cincy_kid]

lets say the opponent hit a ball OBVIOUSLY behind the line (in the kitchen)
whats the penalty then?

So they take bih in the kitchen and start lining up the obvious ball behind the line. You say wait that's behind the line. I don't think it's ever happened or have I ever seen it happen where a shot like that occurred.

 

[Longhorn1]

I’ve seen many things layers do that are against the rules. Trapping the cue ball in the pocket or flicking the cue ball and pocketing balls behind the line to try and gain advantage in a game. It happens ALL THE TIME.

 

[J.R.]

Question #1. trapping cue ball with your tip against the inside of a pocket or rail. It’s always been my understanding that it is a one ball penalty as well as ball in hand behind the head string. CSI spelled it out clearly on there website but one pocket.org leaves it up to players and referee.

Answer: In response, I believe that onepocket.org has successfully addressed the scenario of how to deal with a player trapping a cue ball with the tip of his cue stick against the inside facing of a pocket under "rule 6.6.1 use of an illegal technique" and "rule 6.6.2 serious fouls." The two rules in question are italicized and listed word for word.

6.6.1 Use of an illegal technique: However, if the shooter applies an illegal technique to their advantage, such as pushing, intentionally double-hitting, use of anything other than the cue tip to shoot, or an illegal prolonged cue contact to wedge/trap, direct or redirect the cue ball or any object balls, such as within the stack or jawed pocket, these acts are considered serious fouls. The offending player may be penalized for a serious foul under the general rules of unsportsmanlike conduct. ref: 6.6.2 Serious fouls

6.6.2 Serious fouls: If the ruling is that a serious foul has occurred, in addition to the standard foul the official may further penalize a player at their discretion. If there is no official available, players will need to come to agreement themselves as to the level of penalty to assess the shooter. If it is possible to restore the balls, then the foul may be penalized (a) as a standard foul, with opponent’s option of restoration.

The following penalty levels progress from (a) through (c) depending on the seriousness of the offense, and whether the shooter has been issued a prior warning. A prior warning warrants an escalation of penalty. In this context a “prior warning” may mean a prior offense, a pre-tournament announcement or a player agreement prior to a match.

(a) Assess a standard foul penalty, and a warning to the shooter.
(b) Assess a standard foul penalty, and opponent receives the option of ball in hand.
(c) Loss of game.

In continuance of my response, onepocket.org has identified, in essence but not verbatim, under "rule 6.6.1 use of an illegal technique" that should a player employ an illegal technique to their advantage such an illegal prolonged cue contact to wedge/trap any object ball within the stack (note: how many times has a player slowly pushed the cue ball to a spot in the stack) or jawed pocket that this particular act is considered a serious foul. This brings us to "rule 6.6.2 serious fouls."

This rule states that the player who committed the use of an illegal technique under "rule 6.6.2 serious fouls" can be further penalized. The serious foul rule identifies two different occurrences. The first is by an official (tournament) such as a referee or event director and the second is by the players (gambling) themselves. In both occurrences the official (tournament) and the players (gambling) will need to come to an agreement as to the level of the penalty to assess on the shooter.

Now to the meat and potatoes of how this would apply. If a shooter uses an illegal technique, and is either aware or not aware of the serious foul rule, according to "rule 6.6.2 serious fouls (a)," the shooter is assessed a standard foul penalty and a warning is issued to the shooter that should he do it again then "rule 6.6.2 serious fouls (b)" would apply. In turn, should the shooter violate "rule 6.6.2 serious fouls" a third time then (c) would apply as a loss of game.

Question #2. Shooting a ball in the kitchen to get it down table or make it to spot. What’s the penalty?

Answer: In response to shooting a ball in the kitchen, what is the penalty? There is no penalty because you are not permitted to shoot a ball in the kitchen.

The protocol of one pocket and other pool games is that each have certain inherent rules that outline correct conduct and procedures. One of the most accepted rules is that after a cue ball foul where the incoming player has ball in hand in the kitchen, that incoming player is not permitted to shoot directly at a ball in the kitchen. Should the incoming player want to shoot at a ball in the kitchen, then that player must shoot out of the kitchen before he can strike the ball in the kitchen.

Another example of one pocket protocol is: you're playing a race to three in a one pocket tournament and you rack and break. After the first game, it's now your opponent's turn to rack and break. However, in the first game your opponent recognizes that the corner pocket on the other end of the table has a severe roll into a particular pocket and decides to rack at the opposite end of the table and designate that as his pocket. You just don't do it.

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

I just researched BCAPL / CSI and I found no general rule for bih-btl. In the CSI section they have a AR w/ a diagram of various shot scenario w/ cb and ob placements. But, when the cue ball and object ball are within the kitchen and the shooter shoots this shot it is a foul.
Also, they have no definition for either Trapping or Wedging.
As I have stated it was an admiral try at developing their own rules, but falls short in many areas.

WPA has general rulings 6.10 & 6.11. it states to intentionally shoot into an ob that is obviously within the kitchen is an unsportsmanlike act.
The problem with WPA bih-btl if as the shooter if you do not ask if the cue ball or the object ball are in a legal position of either the ref. or your opponent prior to the shot being taken, then you are subjected to having a foul called on you. Simply, WPA does not warn you prior to the shot being taken.
Whitey

 

[darmoose]

I’ve seen many things layers do that are against the rules. Trapping the cue ball in the pocket or flicking the cue ball and pocketing balls behind the line to try and gain advantage in a game. It happens ALL THE TIME.

That's why a rule that gives the incoming player the option to shoot or return the table to the unscrupulous fouling player is needed. What ever the unscrupulous player decides to do to gain an advantage most likely won't help him if the incoming player has this choice, don't you agree... It would end all this tedious discussion about what to do when all these things are done...

 

[darmoose]

lets say the opponent hit a ball OBVIOUSLY behind the line (in the kitchen)
whats the penalty then?

The solution is to consider the ball moved as a disturbed ball and return it to the original position, the player loses his turn, and if you wanna make it a penalty charge him a ball............these things are simple people

 

[NH Steve]

Our rules for serious fouls do leave some leeway for players and TD's. But the simplest thing, which is built right in to our rules, is for the players or TD to "warn" or agree to the strict penalty if they feel strongly about something. That is what DCC does for example, by mentioning it on their website. And it is very common in player meetings as well, of course.

The anti "trapping" rule is really kind of a new rule in One Pocket history. You don't have to dial back very many years for it to have been a totally common accepted standard practice. That is one reason why there is some leeway in the way it is written in the OnePocket.org rules.

The CSI rules, by the way, are basically a copy and paste rewording of our rules here. Our rules are 100% the basis for their rules, with minor tweaks like you noted, in that they "warn" within their published rules, that trapping the cue ball will mean BIH.

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

Steve, I am glad you have joined the discussion, because I felt uncomfortable speaking for you, because I did not really participate in the development of 6.6.2 Serious Fouls.
I tried to answer Longhorn;s questions, and I believe I went beyond that and went into the why, but you gave me a thumbs up, so I guess i did ok.
But, I think there should be some clarifications made, and since I had limited input into Serious Fouls, I believe we need you to verify if you would.

1. The game rules that are umbrella under Serious Fouls all deal with moving balls illegally, and some with a prior warning. Thus the opening paragraph of 6.6.2 Serious Fouls sets the one constant for the rule, and that is the balls 'maybe restored'. I believe the word 'maybe' is used because sometimes the balls cannot be restored.

2. 2.4 Ball in Hand; you reference Serious Fouls (b). With keeping in mind point 1, then when a player ignores the warning that balls are illegally positioned to be in play, then this penalty is; the incoming player has the option to restore the balls w/ BIH-BTL. But, BIH-BTL is already the standard penalty for this foul, so therefore it is a given, as you state within the 2.4 BIH rule. So if the balls are unable to be restored then does the 2.4 BIH rule rise to Loss of Game?

3. Restoring balls as it pertains to Serious Fouls; generally it would mean the object balls plus the cue ball if it applies. So, therefore to wedge a cb or ob within the pocket to a jaw, is a restoration option only, not a BIH-BTL, because with only 1 or 2 balls involved they can be restored.

4. Keeping in mind point 1 and point 3, then 6.6.1 Use of an illegal technique; this first has a restoration option which includes the cue ball, and 2nd if the balls cannot be restored then (b) standard foul w/ BIH-BTL option, and if the stack gets obliterated then it could rise to a loss of game. Such as; an illegal stroke that sends balls everywhere, dropping an air bridge on top of the stack, or dropping a ball on top of the stack when spotting.

Note; I believe historically a restoration option is the standard rule of play for a wedge in the jaw vs. the come along lately BCAPL 2008 rule of BIH-BTL Historically OP never had a BIH-BTL except for a pocket scratch / cb jumped off of the table.

5. Standard Foul means; the incoming player accepts the cue ball in position as it lies and a one ball penalty is assessed. But, in Serious Foul, 'standard penalty' means; the player is assessed a one ball penalty only.

Note; the reason for 2.4 BIH-BTL has a restoration option is because otherwise the shooter could make a move that rearranges the opponent's balls that he could not otherwise possibly do if the cb / ob were in a legal playing position. So the necessity of a restoration option is huge in this rule.

Steve, please clarify on my above assumptions 1 - 5 as to whether I have them correct.
thanks, Whitey

 

[NH Steve]

or dropping a ball on top of the stack when spotting.

You cannot foul when acting as a referee (i.e. spotting a ball, cleaning the cue ball, removing something foreign from the table) -- doing the jobs that a referee would do if there was one. Since there rarely is a referee, players have to do those things, so no fouls. Of course you would try to restore balls disturbed performing referee duties.

As to your other questions, I am not sure what you are asking, but I hope the rules as written are reasonably self-explanatory. It is a fact that our serious rules section is written with some "official" leeway, as to exactly when a foul rises from one level of seriousness to the next. That was intentional. However, there are also guidelines written within it, such as, if there has already been a "warning", or if the balls are disturbed to the point that restoration is deemed impossible. So the tools are in our rules, for either the TD or the players to decide what level fits, but ultimately, they make the determination.

The whole idea with all of our rules is for players to get along and compete with a minimum of argument. And, of course to provide tools to TD's so that they can officiate tournament games. As we all know, head to head non tournament match-ups are basically regulated by whatever the two players (and their backers) agree to, regardless of whatever published rules might say. That is a simple fact of gambling matches, or private play. However, should the players agree to consult our rules, of course that is a big reason why they are there, and can be used to adjudicate a disagreement. But as you know, even then, the players might decide on something different, simply because they agree to. Perfect, as long as they agree lol. But our rules still provide a backdrop for them, if they want it.

 

[BRLongArm]

That's why a rule that gives the incoming player the option to shoot or return the table to the unscrupulous fouling player is needed. What ever the unscrupulous player decides to do to gain an advantage most likely won't help him if the incoming player has this choice, don't you agree... It would end all this tedious discussion about what to do when all these things are done...

If he shoots it after being warned, it's unsportsmanlike conduct. If otherwise, treat it as an intentional foul; illegal shot; He owes one. If he moves two with the illegal shot, the opponent can move them back or leave them alone, but it is a foul.

 

[darmoose]

If he shoots it after being warned, it's unsportsmanlike conduct. If otherwise, treat it as an intentional foul; illegal shot; He owes one. If he moves two with the illegal shot, the opponent can move them back or leave them alone, but it is a foul.

So, if the situation arises that I want to play an intentional foul and pay the one ball penalty to gain better table position, with BIH I am free to shoot a ball from inside the kitchen, attempting to hang it in my hole while putting the CB behind some other balls.

That's good to know, huh....